Debunking the theory that illegals take american jobs

I guess this is a troll thread? The title of the article is completely different.

Rich Lowry: GOP Elites Who Whine About Jobs Americans Won't Do Should Be Shot & Hanged

Cheap labor, sent production to China, India... any place we can make more profit..

It seems to me that the middle class is helping the big companies distroying the economy of USA.

As if there is an agenda working, an action plan in progress. First society is being brainwashed that 'stuff' needs to be bought, it is your right to own 'stuff'. It is okay to use creditcards and have debt to buy this 'stuff'.

Government opens up the doors for companies to hire cheap labor and produce their 'stuff' in cheap countries. And there is something with the banks who horde all the money and are given permission to do whatever they want with it... and while at it use money that isn't there.

What a mess !!! Who is in charge of supervising the health of the US economy.. A three year old?

Conservatives really confuse me sometimes

They love to harp on about how if illegals would just get out, then wages for everyone would rise! And that they wouldn't care if they have to pay more for produce as long as a red blooded American was picking that fruit!

But then you see them coming out of the wood-work when fast food workers protest because they want higher wages, they come in and start spewing their talking points about how if they got their raise, then that raise would be off-set by companies raising their prices.

Wouldn't that be the same case if the illegals got out and were replaced with legal workers? Wouldn't farmers just raise their prices to off-set the higher wages they would have to pay?

Immigrants (legal or illegal) have always entered this country and participated in the economy. Nothing is really different other than the mass globalization going on right now which is enabled by the much more advanced communication and transportation infrastructure we have available today. This means when looking at the statistics you need consider not just the jobs in america but the jobs elsewhere. Companies can have portions of their business in another country and employees under that arm may or may not be legal american citizens.

From my own experience, many of the workers in some of the cannieries I've worked at are hispanic. Some of htem can't speak english - one wonders if they're legal. Some of the canneries I've seen much more mixing going on than others, so it's not like they all are dominated by hispanics. Many many people of all nationalities have worked in our canneries.

I think it's fine if some canneries of majority hispanic crews. I think hispanics coming to america have not had access to higher education options so this limits what htey can do. I also think they have lower expectations because of where they come from, so they'll work longer and harder for less. This may not be true for their US-born children.

Just before the mid point of the 20th century - when many new machines came online - japanese dominated in the local cannieres because they were supposedly good with their hands. Does anybody focus on that: the fact some immigrants are plain better at something?

This is the only time when Conservatives have a problem with Capitalism it seems.

In a Capitalist Economy the employer will hire the worker that is willing to work for less 100% of the time.

a reply to: teamcommander

But to be fair, it's more like 100% of all mades- and they are all sicilian. Or did i misunderstand something? Because that would be a job that Americans actually want.

Show me someone who wants that job at the wage it actually pays, and I'll show you someone just this side of functional who gets hired and fired from a different temp gig 3 times a week to make his score money.

Don't get me wrong, I used to be a conservative. Nothing's beneath the dignity of a man who'd rather stand than lean- but you can't even stand by American standards on most of what immigrants do. I tried to take some side work at a mexican market once when I was long term unemployed- I told them I'd give them 4 hours a day for 20 bucks, clean, troubleshoot problems, stock, whatever needs doing. The owner told me he has a deadbeat relative who does it for a 12 pack of beer every day. He was stunned to even hear a white guy ask- I must have seemed completely clueless- because I was. The bottom line was that there were two ways that job was gonna get done: an entrepreneur was going to do it himself and run himself ragged trying to keep his startup alive, or an immigrant or other exceedingly desperate person was going to do it for less than bare subsistence. Nobody got cut out of the loop- there wasn't even 20 bucks in it to be cut out of.

Perhaps a lower wage, but tax free for legals who do migrant work combined with enforcing fines on hiring illegals?

Give the citizens a chance to earn tax free wages and they line up for migrant work that pays less than minimum wages.

Just a thought, not well considered though.

a reply to: MOMof3

I am sure the US ones get paid in the legal manner. IMO the remainder percentage fill in positions that employers use to avoid the payroll system with taxes.

If that's the case,

then how do they get the percentages and statistics correct in the first place ?

Careful what is presented, be even more careful of what you believe.

This statement is false, I am a member of the BAC local 1, and laborers local 195. I have been in the union for almost 10 years. The fact is these unions do not care if you are illegal as long as you pay your initiation fee and monthly dues. The laborers union is about 95% hispanic, and of those maybe 20% speak english, MAYBE.

I have worked along side a lot of these men, and it is shocking how many are not here legally. Most of these people are great people, but I cant help but think they are taking away from America.

When a illegal joins a union and starts out making 17.00/hr plus benefits, with no skill, and no language skills how should we feel about that? This is just the tip of the iceberg.

a reply to: MOMof3

originally posted by: The Vagabond
a reply to: MOMof3

If the politicians who pander to the right had a real problem with immigration they could have stopped it by now. The fact is that both sides know the score when it comes to illegal immigration and they have decided to secretly embrace it, but to maintain it as an enduring fundraising issue for as long as they can keep the battle stalemated.

An immigrant from a nation that does not consume US goods at a high price is a consumer subsidy for big business. It does not matter if he works on the books, works off the books, begs, borrows, or steals. He may or may not, depending on what he does, either undercut wages, cause work that would otherwise not be done to be possible to have done at an equilibrium price below minimum wage (which does not depress wages). He will eat and procure all the other necessities of life and pay US dollars for it.

So the primary role of immigrant from the ruling elite perspective is to move money from private charity, government programs, small business, or willing or unwilling private citizens, and distribute it to major retailers. If he fails to do that, then he will appropriate government funds to for profit prisons or law enforcement equipment providers instead. The secondary role is to be scapegoated and stimulate political contributions.

Whether the net effect on the economy is good or bad will vary from case to case, but in every case it will be good for the leaders who didn't fix this alleged problem.

Everything is going according to plan, and everyone who isn't worried about the human cost can relax.

That pretty much sums it up in a neat package!

a reply to: shifferbrains

It begs the question of how anyone involved is skirting the law so successfully. For instance, I know that in many unions the employer pays supplemental dues deducted from pay, which must be tracked for tax purposes. Both the employer and the union would have to be engaged in some... (whats the clean old timey word for F-ery? Shicanery? am I spelling that right?) And if they are, the worker is the least illegal part of the problem.

So what's the score really? Are there a bunch of white dues paying members lined up out of work because the Mexicans got there first who don't have the cleverness to call La Migra and watch jobs suddenly open up? Or are we talking about an area where things are so good that being white alone gets you pretty good pay without having to dig any ditches- or maybe just a heavily hispanic area where fewer are illegal than you probably think?

You do hear a lot of bogus stats on illegals. According to some sources I have read, every single hispanic inmate in federal prison is illegal... or at least assumed to be by the source.

I've worked union jobs too- I know how informal the hiring process can be- but the paperwork generally does have to be filled out, and anyone interested in doing so could stop the problem at that point. How exactly do people who get no respect and few rights oppress the enfranchised majority unless they really aren't causing all that much of a problem to many such people?

You`re not disproving anything,in fact you`re showing how10-15% of the population has taken over 40-60% of the jobs in the blue collar areas.This is after NAFTA shipped most of our manufacturing jobs to Mexico,where the unemployment rate is 4%
Try going to Mexico illegally to work,them hypocrites will throw you in the slammer.By the way isn't our marine still in jail over there for entering the country illegally? Obviously a mistake yet they rub it in our noses while at the same time bitching about Texas putting the national guard on the border,calling it racist.SCREW MEXICO!!!

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: liejunkie01

That is the fault of the employers. My husband was in the Laborers Union for 42 years. Never had to work will illegals because they don't like unions. They do not like Everify either. Lay the blame on the slave masters, not the slaves.

I responded to your "Debunking theory that illegals taking American jobs".

I don't believe I blamed anyone. I just said they are taking over. I do realize it is just not their fault. Our system has failed us.

My experience in my line of work says your article's study is bunk.

a reply to: liejunkie01

Taking over what though? The jobs and housing that hurt your soul to imagine having? It's not as if you were answering to them and the system operated primarily to their benefit.

Last I checked America hadn't been taken over by anyone since just after WWII, when the Nazis came over legally and showed our plutocrats how corporatism really works.

originally posted by: rupertg
a reply to: nfflhome

California is #1 in agriculture and agriculture exports. It's big busine$$.
No fat cat will want to get rid of their cheap labor.

I live in CA and this FACT above is the elephant in the room. Never mind that NO ONE ELSE wants to do the fruit & vegetable picking in the hot sun for hours a day. Go ahead, send them all back...LEGAL AND ILLEGAL and see which hard working Americans are lining up to get their jobs.

YEAH RIGHT.

It's laughable that people think there is a problem here with this...take them away, then you got problems...starting with the skyrocketing price of produce all over the country.

a reply to: MOMof3

It should be punished by ANY American citizen.

Besides,how on Earth would they even figure out how to document the undocumented?

a reply to: MOMof3

How is your thread debunking the theory that illegals take American jobs when the source referenced shows that illegals are the majority job holders in six classes of jobs and have a percentage, just not a majority percentage, in the other classes of jobs.

Your source proves that illegals take American jobs, not the other way around.

a reply to: liejunkie01

You speak the truth.

I did stucco for a few years down here up until about 5/6 years ago.

Now,someone of my ...persuasion...might as well forget about construction.

I speak the wrong language.

English.