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The U.S. government owns all of it's citizens???

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posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
From what I have read, it is really hard to renounce your citizenship in the U.S.

If they get around to securing the borders, it will probably be to keep the citizens in, not illegals out.


To all of you who have no intention of returning to the US, just renounce, it is easier than living in fear of the TSA,NSA,IRS who are intent on making the lives of average Americans look like the latest horror movie.

Be sure to legally change your name too and get a new passport under the new name.

That way you can still visit Disneyland if you choose, but you can also do that in Tokyo and Paris.
The Paris one is totally awesome and way better than the CA one.



Repost from what I said earlier in case you missed it: You CANNOT renounce your citizenship without the expressed written and verbal consent of the IRS, the State Department, and the Embassy. I have the documents as I was going in process to do this to move to my mate's country of origin (who is going through # with the IRS right now over an estate in their home country) and pretty much each of those entities has the right to deny you the absolution of your citizenship. Just keep that in mind.

You just can't burn your passport and call it a day either. As Tetra posted earlier, if they let you expatriate after the Exit Tax law you still on the hook for SIX YEARS or longer, depending on how long they want to string that hook.




posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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I wonder if that other country that charges income tax from its citizens is mine, the Philippines. It's a bit of a mess here as well.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: tetra50



Another great Obammy bill signed: FATCA.

hxxp://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/06/fatca-hurts-law-abiding-americans-living-abroad
FATCA Hurts Law-Abiding Americans Living Abroad By Anthony B. Kim and Curtis S. Dubay On July 1, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) will fully take effect. FATCA is supposed to reduce tax evasion by making it harder for tax cheats to abuse tax havens. In practice, however, FATCA is forcing law-abiding American taxpayers residing overseas to bear enormous financial and legal burdens. Congress should reform FATCA so that it does not hurt innocent Americans residing and working overseas. More important, Congress should turn its full attention to broader tax reform that would help curtail tax evasion in a more effective way without resorting to onerous and intrusive regulations such as FATCA. Empowering the IRS FATCA sailed through Congress in March 2010 and was signed into law by President Obama as part of the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act.[1] There was little congressional scrutiny or debate of its complex details. Like another ill-considered piece of legislation enacted that same year (Obamacare), FATCA granted the IRS a new level of intrusiveness into the lives of Americans. According to White House talking points that laid out the blueprint for FATCA: [One of the proposals] requires foreign financial institutions that have dealings with the United States to sign an agreement with the IRS to become a “Qualified Intermediary” and share as much information about their U.S. customers as U.S. financial institutions do, or else face the presumption that they may be facilitating tax evasion and have taxes withheld on payments to their customers… As part of the Obama Administration’s budget, the IRS will hire nearly 800 new employees devoted to international enforcement.[2] Prior to FATCA, the U.S. had many tax information exchange agreements with other countries to help curb the use of foreign accounts to facilitate tax evasion.[3] These agreements require foreign financial institutions to provide certain information on customers to the IRS. FATCA goes much further, requiring foreign financial institutions—including banks, stock brokers, hedge/pension funds, insurance companies, and trusts—to report more detailed information to the IRS about their American customers each year. Under the legislation, the IRS is granted enhanced regulatory power in determining, based on its judgment, whether Americans with these accounts have wrongfully evaded U.S. taxes. FATCA Hurts Law-Abiding American Taxpayers Working Overseas U.S. tax laws are complex by world standards and highly unusual in their attempt to extend the reach of the IRS beyond the country’s borders. In the case of FATCA, the legal burden falls on foreign financial institutions with U.S. customers. Those that do not comply are subject to a variety of serious financial and legal penalties. FATCA’s costly IRS reporting requirements and its significant legal and financial risks make it unprofitable and arduous for foreign financial companies to serve Americans. Many have thus been reluctant to work with the IRS in implementing the law. Others, however, have adopted another strategy for avoiding FATCA: simply denying service to American customers. In fact, some institutions have already closed the pre-existing accounts of their American clients.[4] Lack of access to financial services has made it extremely difficult for Americans living and working abroad to conduct even rudimentary financial tasks such as cashing their paychecks.[5] Not so surprisingly, a recent poll reveals that almost 70 percent of them have considered giving up their U.S. citizenship because of FATCA.[6] In fact, many of them already have. In 2013 alone, 3,000 Americans living overseas voluntarily gave up their citizenship—a 221 percent rise from the 993 people who gave up American citizenship in 2012.[7] Democrats Abroad, “the official arm of the Democratic Party for US citizens living outside the United States and its territories,” summarized: Congress passed FATCA to bring an end to illegal tax avoidance by Americans in the US who use overseas financial accounts to secret untaxed earnings out of the country. But Congress did not fully anticipate the impact [FATCA] would have on overseas Americans and we, therefore, are now burdened with a tax reporting obligation that treats us like suspected tax cheats and money launderers… [We] Americans living abroad now find our financial lives exposed to a degree of scrutiny—under threat of severe penalties, fines and even imprisonment—to which Americans living stateside are not subjected. Implicit in this stringent reporting regulation is the unfair and unjustified suspicion that Americans living abroad are tax cheats and/or money launderers, which clearly the vast majority are not.[8] Time to Reform FATCA Reducing tax evasion is a laudable goal, and FATCA may reduce it somewhat. Only time will tell by how much. However, whatever reduction it achieves is coming at a significant cost that could far outweigh the potential benefits. Even IRS commissioner John Koskinen realizes the unfair burden FATCA puts on law-abiding American expatriates. He recently indicated that the IRS is looking to make it easier for them to comply with FATCA. That could be a big improvement if the IRS follows through in a timely manner.[9] Congress should reform FATCA’s heavy-handed approach to tax enforcement now to lessen the burden it is imposing on Americans living abroad and to prevent it from becoming an even bigger problem as it goes further into effect—one that runs the very real risk of exposing law-abiding Americans working overseas to greater IRS exploitation and targeting.


Getting Deeper With It - How much they gonna charge you and /or you going to jail.
hxxp://wealthmanagement.com/commentary/fatca-violates-rights-a



The Cost of Non-Compliance Penalties for noncompliance are equally harsh. The failure to report carries a minimum penalty of $10,000 and a maximum penalty of $50,000. Additionally, a 40% understatement penalty will be assessed for underpayments of tax from non-disclosed foreign financial assets, and a penalty of 75% for unreported income plus interest. Wilful noncompliance, of course, carries potential criminal penalties. Frighteningly, the mere possibility of paying these extreme penalties as a result of an innocent or inadvertent mistake on the multiple, intricate reporting forms has many expatriates opting to renounce their American citizenship altogether rather than risk running afoul of the IRS. Unintended Consequences FATCA has given rise to a vast number of unintended economic consequences, both international and domestic. Foreign banks have complained that the IRS is saddling them with billions in compliance costs. Indeed, it has been projected that the 30 largest non-U.S. banks will spend over $7.5 billion in efforts to comply with the law. To avoid these high costs, several foreign banks and institutions have stopped doing business with American citizens and corporations. Many American expatriates are having their foreign accounts unceremoniously closed. Foreign institutions are less likely to hire Americans living abroad. The number of Americans renouncing their citizenship has quadrupled since FATCA was passed.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

Leave the country and to never file the birth with the US embassy. Most countries have really crappy live birth records that are paper only and unsearchable by the US government. Parents who give birth outside of the country are supposed to file immediately with the US embassy, but this is not a necessary requirement in order for the child to have defacto citizenship, only to get all the paperwork in order so the IRS and SSA can be on the ready to collect their "fair share" in years to come.

Even entering the country, you can treat the child as if it were simply the offspring of your partner for paperwork purposes, even enrolling it in school as if it were a resident alien, and no one would ever be the wiser. Then, if for some reason you ever need to change the child's status, simply go to the Department of Homeland Security, and they can begin the process for you of getting a certificate of citizenship issued. This gives them an optimal amount of choices while also giving them citizenship to their mother's country of origin, which they probably wouldn't have if they were born in the US.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: Nechash

Sorry Nash, that is the 1980s way of doing it. NO LONGER APPLIES. If he or his legal resident wife declare taxes overseas and declares their child, which they have to, the IRS will KNOW they have said offspring, and then go back and read what has been posted on the subject; the IRS still wants their cut and will not let them expatriate as easy as people think with teh new laws and such.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: ArchPlayer

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
From what I have read, it is really hard to renounce your citizenship in the U.S.

If they get around to securing the borders, it will probably be to keep the citizens in, not illegals out.


To all of you who have no intention of returning to the US, just renounce, it is easier than living in fear of the TSA,NSA,IRS who are intent on making the lives of average Americans look like the latest horror movie.

Be sure to legally change your name too and get a new passport under the new name.

That way you can still visit Disneyland if you choose, but you can also do that in Tokyo and Paris.
The Paris one is totally awesome and way better than the CA one.



Repost from what I said earlier in case you missed it: You CANNOT renounce your citizenship without the expressed written and verbal consent of the IRS, the State Department, and the Embassy. I have the documents as I was going in process to do this to move to my mate's country of origin (who is going through # with the IRS right now over an estate in their home country) and pretty much each of those entities has the right to deny you the absolution of your citizenship. Just keep that in mind.

You just can't burn your passport and call it a day either. As Tetra posted earlier, if they let you expatriate after the Exit Tax law you still on the hook for SIX YEARS or longer, depending on how long they want to string that hook.



Maybe others are correct when they say the only border walls that will be built in the USA will be to keep citizens IN.

What they are doing to people like you, is trying to FORCE you to remain US citizens,

the beginning of the "US Wall"

right now with the citizen terrorizing IRS as the watchdog to keep citizens "in line" and "within the control of the US", with the support of the current Administration/Libs/Progressives etc.

I have seen "the wall", and living within it is bleaker and more frightening than any post-apocalyptic/totalitarian government control film you have seen.

But that is what the American population unwittingly voted for in 2012.



edit on 11Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:58:33 -0500am82208amk225 by grandmakdw because: x



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: Visitor2012

I totally never prayed to false Gods. My Dad laughed. My kids don't either btw. Consider us too lazy to get up.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw


Sad thing is, we won't see how bad that US Wall is until the POTUS after Obammy implements all those Executive Orders to turn this place into literally Neo Nazi Germany.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: 8675309jenny

Congratulations, by the way!



Thanks, were excited for sure! This tax situation really stinks though. I've traced about 80% of my ancestry back out of the US in only 2-3 generations, and while they came to the "land of the free" it would appear their eventual descendants were born into tax slavery.... Shame.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: ArchPlayer
a reply to: 8675309jenny

Let me help you with a few facts.

The FACTA act puts your kid on the hook, whether born here or abroad. I have a cousin born and raised in Austria, that at age 40 was targeted by the IRS for taxes going all the way back to when he was 16 years old! He has never been to America, and while he knows English because of his mother, it isn't his first language. His mother (my relative) has never went back to America. FACTA also puts his wife and children on the hook as well, as they are also required once age 16 to file taxes individually, and his spouse and him together. If not the IRS can lien everybody.


Absolutely freakin INSANE!




You having a business puts you in a WORSE situation, as the IRS can put a lien against that as well, as well as say you are hoarding hidden income. If you are not in France, you can be extridited back to the states for Tax Evasion. Study Wesley Snipes business dealings in Korea, and what they did to him and his wife, a Korean born citizen. (I know he went down for not reporting earnings while living in Korea, but look at what they did to his businesses AFTER throwing him in jail, and his wife's businesses).

You CANNOT renounce your citizenship without the expressed written and verbal consent of the IRS, the State Department, and the Embassy. I have the documents as I was going in process to do this to move to my mate's country of origin (who is going through # with the IRS right now over an estate in their home country) and pretty much each of those entities has the right to deny you the absolution of your citizenship. Just keep that in mind.

So for everybody thinking America is so fukcing great, yeah you can have it.


I'll read about the Snipes story for sure, thanks!

Ya know, I honestly feel like I have lived through an era of watching my home country completely crumble into facsist idiocracy. It's truly amazing how correct Orwell was.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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I agree. What's worse is they've crested a system where speaking out is scary. You do and you get put on a list. You're a terrorist.

Its beyond cray.



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 12:25 AM
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originally posted by: darkwarrior
a reply to: 8675309jenny

The IRS knows they lose about $40 billion a year from illegal immigrants filing for child tax credit and not even reporting earnings. They max it at about $25k per person.

They still allow it....so not sure how this is even a big deal.


I'm not sure I understand your point correctly, but if you mean it's no big deal that I am a tax slave even though I was born here and have always paid my taxes, then I beg to disagree. Especially when they are making a point of taxing people who aren't even in the country, on money earned OUTSIDE the country, while not enforcing THE LAW concerning the illegals.

I'm sorry, but screw the illegals. I have paid to support the very system that they now take advantage of. We also spent good $XX,XXX to get my significant other here LEGALLY in the first place!



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

Yup. Google 1933 United States bankruptcy. Not exactly something you are educated about in school.

Which banknote company owns your birth certificate?



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: Not Authorized

SOmeone will be quick to argue that this has been debunked...

I really don't know, either way we are still looked at as a commodity.



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 12:39 AM
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a reply to: jrod

Of course. I expect it. And this.

I however, have a sharpie.

You describe indentured servitude. You should research it for yourself and come to your own conclusions.
edit on 23-8-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-8-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-8-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 12:55 AM
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originally posted by: tetra50

The wonderful "integrated circuit," has been with us since 1952, when it was first developed.
More:



“The chip securely stores the same data visually displayed on the photo pages of the passport, and additionally includes a digital photograph,” the website reports.

The website notes that “previously issued” passports without chips can still be used for travel, with the exception of VWP travelers. But a U.S. citizen cannot obtain a new passport now without a chip.





Luckily I still have an old-school passport, but in 2016 I will have to renew and I'll be issued one of those mandatory RFID chipped ones.

The scary part about that for me, is someone in a big foreign city can just sit and act like a homeless dude while scanning RFID chips that walk by, targeting Americans because of their high hostage value. Hell with the rise os radical islam all over Europe, that damn RFID passport could get me beheaded somewhere.

Thanks Uncle Sam.
edit on 23-8-2014 by 8675309jenny because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 02:42 AM
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a reply to: Not Authorized

The US government has changed a lot of laws concering this and the ucc filings since it became knowledge. Do this now, and you go to jail for fraud.



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 02:45 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

That could be a possibility, but remember, the US funds most of Al Qaieda and other radical muslim groups; the Ottoman beef Europe has been fighting for a couple hundred years won't give a rat's ass about you.

You should be more freaked out that because you are American born, banks and businesses will not want to deal with you solely from that point because it gives the IRS a backdoor to audit them and raid their coffers. So now you are looking at being a foreign national in another country, with a wife that has legal residency here and subjected to the same laws, being discriminated against for that fact. THAT is more scarier than a radical muslim trying to behead you.

America impending your right to work abroad.



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 02:55 AM
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a reply to: ArchPlayer

Beyond that, My Sharpie lasts for Eternity. :-)



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

LOL your avatar. Jenny, Jenny, I've got your number. I'm gonna make you mine….

anyway, as to your reply to my info, yes, exactly. I certainly hope you are not beheaded, too. Or any of the rest of us traveling abroad. The RFID chip can be used in lots of covert, generally negative ways. You've just nailed one of the worst, in terms of traveling, though….
You are dead on about Orwell, and the institution we call government really does own our butts. But, on reflection, look at the very old Uncle Sam portrait, of the guy in the hat, saying he wants YOU. I guess we should have understood the import of that, and calling this "democracy" the "Great Experiment." Break down the word democracy: Deem O (life) Cracy……
Take care of you and your family, and be well.
tetra
edit on 23-8-2014 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)




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