It's over... The balance has tipped and the welfare state has won... For now...

a reply to: doobydoll

I wouldn't argue that CEO's and the like are entitled to be paid more, what I don't understand or agree with is that they are paid so vastly much more. I wouldn't begrudge them one red cent of what they are paid if their employees were paid enough to fund an acceptable standard of living. But this isn't the case. It seems like the CEO's resent having to pay anyone anything, and would prefer to pay no wages at all if/when they can get away with it. And we now find that many ARE getting away with it by participating in workfare, so now you have working people not only being paid taxpayer money in top-up benefits, but now you have unemployed 'working' (workfare) people on FULL benefits.

It's the Star mentality we have in this country. Supported by everyone, or virtually everyone. Professional sports players are paid ridiculous amounts....absolutely ridiculous. That seems to be fine for most people, and then a real business is, for some reason, thought of differently and the CEO pay is deemed ridiculous. I maintain they are both part and parcel of the same mentality. Both are ridiculously overpaid.

FYI: I no longer watch professional sports (exception being hockey) nor do I watch college sports....all for basically the same reason. College teams are nothing more than amateur farm teams for the pros. In college there is way too much emphasis on sports and not enough on academics, which is the REAL reason universities exist. Professional athletes are not playing for the game, but for the money. It's all about the money. I refuse to contribute.

originally posted by: buster2010
This is what happens when you allow the elite to buy the government and then create conditions that allows them to profit off the poor. Capitalism is what caused this mess not Socialism. Seeing how the minimum wage has been virtually stagnant since the 80's and has not even kept up with the standard of living increases it is no surprise that more people are on government aid in one way or another. Companies keep crying we can't afford to pay workers more while upper management wages keep going through the roof. But as usual you will have people blaming the poor for this and say nothing about those who profit from it.

When the elite buy the government, that isn't capitalism. The problem doesn't lie with the businessman who attempts to rig the system; it lies with the politician who allows it. In a true capitalist system, that wouldn't be allowed.

As a longtime observer of this site I felt compelled to chime in after reading this discussion. I see a lot of opinions here are formed by party lines which makes me sad. The United States of America has been divided and conquered, we the people should strive to not limit ourselves to following the path of a left or right wing party. Neither side is a solution to the current state of the country but rather they are both the problem. The elites want the public divided and at each others throats. -Lobbying should be illegal the politicians are given a more than fair salary for the jobs they perform. -The banksters and wall street thugs should be removed from this country as well as their puppets that we the people elect. -Capitalism and democracy have been perverted over time, elections are bought and paid for as well as corporate and banking regulations. -Political advertisement created to purposely mislead the public should be illegal. As to a solution to repair the country, a better man than me will surely have an answer for it but I will not pretend to have one.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: theantediluvian

RIch people don't 'owe' society jack snip.

They never have.

People are 'owed' what they earn.

That's it.

They sure the hell are not 'entitled' to what someone else has.

People need to stop whining about what they don't have, and take a good look at what they DO have.

Without Society (people) those pieces of paper would be worthless.
Let's see a crony from Goldman Sachs make it on an deserted island by himself.
He can take all his wealth with him (investments, cash, and so on) minus people to serve him and he would be burning that paper money and stock certificates to light his wood on fire because that is all it would be worth.

How come you never address Government Wall Street and the cronies rich from it? That is where the majority of the wealth in this country is held thanks to the government.

The real welfare queens are career politicians, tax breaks for the 1%, banks, oil companies, corporate subsidies, churches, private prisons & defense contractors...

a reply to: Oreach

The elites want the public divided and at each others throats. -Lobbying should be illegal the politicians are given a more than fair salary for the jobs they perform. -The banksters and wall street thugs should be removed from this country as well as their puppets that we the people elect. -Capitalism and democracy have been perverted over time, elections are bought and paid for as well as corporate and banking regulations. -Political advertisement created to purposely mislead the public should be illegal.

Sounds to me like you have all the right ideas.

Welcome to ATS!

Yes - lobbying - GONE - career politicians - GONE - corporate donations - GONE - PACs - GONE - 2-year campaigns - GONE (every candidate gets 15 free minutes of Public Service Announcements per month - and only three months total)....

PLUS, the candidates are picked randomly out of the phone book, or from Drivers Licenses - Like a jury.

Who in their right mind wants to be in charge of this shambles anyway????

GHA.

Again, Welcome to ATS. Glad you are here.

a reply to: jacobe001

How come you never address Government Wall Street and the cronies rich from it? T

Oh I have. Lots of times.

Like how FOR DECADES the 'way' to get rich was using WALL STREET that has been demagogued to death. Has been replaced with using GOVERNMENT to rob from the evil rich so the 'poor' can go out,and buy more stuff.

People use to invest in the stock market, savings, accounts, IRA'S, CD's, and money markets.

But none of those pay anyone jack snip anymore.

The government created money.

The government created the federal reserve.

That controls EVERY FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT there is.

That is where the majority of the wealth in this country is held thanks to the government.

NO it's not.

As the first post in this thread exposes to be the LIE that is.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The majority of wealth is concentrated in the mobs hands.

Actually READ that post.

READ THE LINKS.

Especially this one:

www.usdebtclock.org...

READ THE TOTAL for unfunded liabilities. The amount OWED to the mob.

Promises made THAT CAN NEVER BE PAID FOR.

Not even taking every cent of them 'evil' rich.

Then READ the headers of 'House Hold assets' versus 'Corporate assets'.

The majority of wealth is concentrated in a 'few' hands.

BULL SNIP.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Well stated!

It was said, by one of our founding fathers, that those who would seek office, deserve it not.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: bbracken677

And maybe that's because "conservatives" HAVE more money to donate.
Maybe?

Conservatives are also very active on Wall Street -
people on the dole can't afford to play.

I see...so conservatives are either rich white people who give to charities, or they are.. dumb rednecks? Which is it? Seems to me that conservatives are portrayed in whatever light suits the agenda of the moment.

Or another way to look at it may be that conservatives favor individual rights, individual incentive, and individual responsibility. Liberals would have the govt just take money from people to give to those who are neither responsible, have no incentive and are only interested in their right to other's money.

All you have to do is visit a HUD property and spend a little time there to see how subsidizing poverty is doing nothing but maintaining the cycle. The war on poverty is just like the war on drugs, only it (poverty) is more destructive.

I have absolutely no problem helping out a fellow human being who is down on his luck, specially if he has a family. That help needs to be help getting a job, help getting back on his feet. Not monthly stipends that last forever and the only qualification is "I don't want to work".

The old proverb about teaching a man to fish vs giving the man a fish... there is a huge amount of wisdom in that which is evident should anyone care to see.

a reply to: bbracken677

athletes and actors make so much because they have a union.

it is off of them that the game/show makes so much money for the owners/producers, so their union insures they get a fair cut.

a reply to: neo96

youre right, life isnt fair.

what i see you saying is economic might makes right. im the ceo, i have all the power. i keep unemployment artificially high so i can pick you up for a song (just be glad you have a job, taker!). i have the right, cause i have the power, to pay you less in order to pay myself more. i dont even have to tell you the truth (employers can legally lie to you www.mainstreet.com...).

guess what, this has happened before. it led to the labor riots of the 20's and the french revolution. the ceos may have money, but the people have guns, brawn, and nothing to lose. in that situation the people have the might, so taking from the rich becomes right.

remember, welfare isnt to help the poor, its to keep the poor from rising up against the rich. welfare is to protect the rich, nothing more.

Hey Jacob, Why just one, why not send them all and their families to a Nice Big Island that they can't get off with all their Paper Wealth. Heck we could print them up Nice Shiny New Hunskies and Put Special Coconut Seals on them in case they get any ideas about paying someone off to Rescue Their Sorry Butts. We could divide the Island i half with A Big Wall like in King Kong, but instead of a Big Monkey, we could Put All our Rapists, Murderers and Pedophiles behind The Wall. It'll give em something to do, defending The Wall 24/7 so as to survive, like the rest of us. do every day. Namaste, Arjunanda a reply to: jacobe001

a reply to: caitlinfae

Thank you so much. I hope you are doing well too and am keeping you in my thoughts too.

It's funny, you (americans) live in the most capitalistic, non-social, egotistical, individualist country and yet still many people blame socialism.
You don't even know what (real) socialism is because you never experienced it.

These social welfare programs aren't the problem, they are a symptom.

The problem this country has is lack of manufacturing. We don't make a whole lot in this country anymore.

Companies in this country have shipped a lot of jobs overseas, because they don't want to pay people a living wage.

This leaves people trying to get by on service industry jobs, which believe me is difficult. You pretty much have to get on food stamps just r to be able to eat, as all your money goes to rent and bills.

You have nothing left for savings, you have nothing left for investment. You can't realistically even buy a house. The primary investment people have.

And being poor is often more expensive, late on your bills? That's a charge, overdraft your bank account? That's a charge, more money you don't have going out just to keep the lights on, or a roof over your head.

A single person has to work at least two full time minimum wage jobs just to keep up with living in this country.

If we want to fix this, we need to raise tariffs on goods entering this country so that is less expensive for companies to produce goods here in this country than it is to import them.

If companies want to pass that cost onto the consumer, we need to boycott them out of business. Yes, companies deserve to make a profit, but they don't deserve to gouge the consumer.

And why the hell are we subsidizing companies anyway? Some people whine about welfare, but turn a blind eye to corporate welfare. I got an idea, how about doing business to earn profits?

We need to fix the mentality in business in this country, with all these mega profits why aren't they expanding their companies?

We also as consumers need to change our habits too, we need to frequent small American owned businesses instead of large corporations, this country needs more competition. If we as consumers hurt the profits of mega corporations they will be forced to alter their business models.

A lot needs to be done to fix the inequitable distribution of wealth in this country, without that change, the welfare state the OP is crying about will continue.

OK...lets just spell this out. The goal of this liberal/progressive administration, and all progressives ultimately is to have every single individual as either an government employee, government contractor/agency or on government assistance. That is the plan and the goal. Why? Because then they will stay in power forever. PERIOD!

Everyone will work and all your "income" with go to (or remain with) the government. They will decide how to divide up what they are willing to give back and keep the rest. It will be divided up based upon how well you benefit them. If you shut up and do as you are told...you will get more. If you speak out...you will get less. They will choose what brands of food you get, what insurance you receive, and everything else. They will use what you earn to keep themselves in power. THAT is the goal of progressives. Hell...don't believe me? Ask one! It will go like this "the populous is incapable of taking care of themselves, therefore, the educated, intelligent people must take care of them". What they conveniently leave off is "whether they like it or not.".

You see...to them you are just stupid animals that can't take care of yourselves. They will rule over you and feed you like livestock while you live in the barns they provide for your use.

If ANYONE tells you differently...they are lying.

a reply to: Mirthful Me

Facts: unemployment rates in the US are quite normal nowadays - so, the legendary tale of all those 'lazy bastards that will not work' is provable nonsense. Also, "only" 4.1 percent of Americans live on welfare. That's not too bad.

Alas, those that are unfortunate enough to have to live in your country when not able to get a decent job - I mean: a job that pays enough so you can actually SUSTAIN yourself and your family - well, they don't get much for the State either. Many of these poor devils - of whom roughly 10 percent are still suffering from poverty though working full-time, some even need TWO jobs or more - have to live on foodstamps (shame on you).

How come these poor hardworking people have to live off foodstamps nevertheless? Well, in the USA a married couple with two children pays only roughly 10% taxes - the OECD average would by roughly 20 percent. So, Americans are simply paying not enough taxes.

Stop whining, start paying taxes and ensure that the poor bastards on welfare can live reasonable lives too.

Well considering the fact that the government gives out more money in corporate welfare including multi-national mega corporations who are also on the public dole why should anyone feel bad for taking from the government they can get? It is those same corporations who refuse to pay a decent wage which force people to rely on these benefits.

If you want to end the "Welfare state" stop giving billions of dollars away to greedy corporations who won't even pay there employees a decent wage, and then change the federal minimum wage to one that is adjusted yearly for the cost of living index.

If people on welfare would get off their fat #ing asses and actually be productive instead of having multiple children by multiple fathers we may be on the right track. Stop blaming everyone else why you can't work and get a #ing job is a start. There's jobs all over. If there weren't, people wouldn't be sneaking into this country. The problem is, welfare pays more to sit on your ghetto ass, without a drug test, than going out and making an honest living.

When you raise a group of misfits who have no accountability, you lose your society and the rest of us have to work twice as hard to pay to keep the society as we knew it.

All of you bitching about the extremely wealthy, you're making excuses for yourselves. I know this is unpopular on ATS but, the extremely wealthy are not stopping you from doing anything. You're just making excuses because you're fing lazy.

a reply to: Jabronie
people are in the gov't
people run the business
it's people that are the problem

a store sells a gun to someone who then goes out and murders a dozen people with it
it the gun owner then to blame because he allowed the person to have the weapon?
you seem to be doing about the same thing.

www.laane.org...

Huhtamaki took over a company that was called sealright a couple decades or so ago. Sealright was one of the best employers in my hometown! It was the company that gave my husband the opportunity of their machinist apprenticeship program. one of my neighbors worked there all their lives while I was growing up. Both the mom and dad worked there and they earned enough to be able to buy about four or five acres of land with a nice home on it.
That was before Huhtamaki took over it though.


it's people that run the gov't and it's people who run the businesses both could say no to their desire for higher earnings and yes to morality.
they both choose to not to!