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It's over... The balance has tipped and the welfare state has won... For now...

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posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 07:15 AM
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originally posted by: rupertg
The real welfare queens are career politicians, tax breaks for the 1%, banks, oil companies, corporate subsidies, churches, private prisons & defense contractors...


You're right. But, the other real welfare queens and kings have learned to abuse the system to their advantage and not look for a job. Rather sit at 701 Crosby Street yelling and moaning about where my food stamps and free money are other than use the time to advance themselves and put applications in. It goes both ways.
edit on 8/22/2014 by OptimusCrime because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 07:15 AM
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ats made a double post.
edit on 8/22/2014 by OptimusCrime because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: Mirthful Me

Capitalism has failed you arrogant twit. Most of the people you call the dependent class have earned those benefits. This isn't wellfare you snide little prick but legally earned contractually obligated payments that those in power must live up to. Capitalism has failed because it continually destroys its landbase.
Capitalism has failed because idiots like you think its the only viable system.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 07:50 AM
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a reply to: stormson

lol no. The union has nothing to do with it. Do you think the union had anything to do with Kershaws massive contract? Do you think the union has anything to do with how much Brad Pitt makes when he is in a movie?

It's all about supply and demand for talent.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 08:02 AM
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a reply to: HauntWok

I agree with your statement regarding manufacturing here in the US.

I would say that the American consumer has played a huge part in the exodus of manufacturing overseas. If you have a choice of 2 items, one cheap made in China, one more expensive made here in the US, which do you buy? Which does the average consumer buy?

You say that the reason for jobs going overseas is due to companies not wanting to pay a living wage... Given the above choice, what message is being sent to manufacturers? Given the left's continual damnation of major corporations and the continual pressure to penalize them for making a profit, is it any wonder they want to move operations overseas?




If companies want to pass that cost onto the consumer, we need to boycott them out of business. Yes, companies deserve to make a profit, but they don't deserve to gouge the consumer.


Name a few manufacturers or companies who gouge their customers, please. I am not aware of any. Competition normally takes care of excess profits in a short period of time.

Please provide examples of companies who are making mega profits and not expanding their operations. I am really curious about that one.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 08:10 AM
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originally posted by: th3dudeabides
a reply to: Mirthful Me

Capitalism has failed you arrogant twit. Most of the people you call the dependent class have earned those benefits. This isn't wellfare you snide little prick but legally earned contractually obligated payments that those in power must live up to. Capitalism has failed because it continually destroys its landbase.
Capitalism has failed because idiots like you think its the only viable system.


Wow...just wow!

Arrogant twit? After reading your post I would tend to say: pot calling kettle black?

Capitalism brought this country into a position of leadership in manufacturing in the world and in every associated link to that manufacturing. In the 60s the US produced 25% of all manufactured goods in the world. It has been govt intrusion and ridiculous legislation and oversight that has killed it. It is the stupid activity of some unions that has contributed to the fail. For a union to strike and drive a company out of business is ignorant to the nth degree. It is a case of the parasite killing the host.

The insanity of actions by the govt since the 70s that has killed our manufacturing base along with ignorant choices by consumers.

Regarding your last line: I do not believe that capitalism is the only viable system, but I would be interested to learn what you believe is the alternative. I do, however, believe that capitalism works as long as the players (govt, business, employees and consumers) work towards making it a success. When the components work solely for their own interests without regard for the health of the host, then they will all fail.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 08:54 AM
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I love these anti welfare rants.

Most of the time they are made by people who've never been on the other side of the fence. They whine and moan about how their taxpayers dollars are being squandered on these ne'er do wells but forget the fact that a large majority of taxpayers dollars goes towards corporate or political welfare.

But we can't blame the corporate world, so we'll blame the lowest class of citizens because they have no influence, no power, no wealth, and apparently no worth in society.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Except their votes are valued.

I have no problem helping people who have been dealt a bad hand get back on their feet. Those who willingly choose to not work are not contributing to society in the least. Our govt enables this by supporting them with zero expectations in exchange for a meager living.

The war on poverty is the biggest affront to human dignity possible. It has been every bit as successful as the war on drugs. If you spend or have spent any time at all in a HUD property, you would know that many of those there are quite content to remain there and make zero effort to leave. I have a problem with subsidizing laziness. I have no problem with a program that would provide a decent living for a family or individual while teaching them how to make a decent living. Provided that after the individual receives the training and help finding a job the aid is stopped.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: Mirthful Me

Let Me say Something Mirthful Me

How Much do you think are immigrants? on the system. ( Welfare ) from the past three decades.. ?

How is that Foreigners can just walking into America and get everything handed to them
even Starting a Business! here !

Well think about Free Trade from the Start of the Reagan Administration!!

You Know Major to Medium Company's of All Sorts Moving their industries Over Sea's

To A Place Called China for Cheap labor.. and a bigger Pocket profit !

Tho South Korea is Doing just Fine with their own Company's within their own land

Example TV's Vizeo Made in China Samsung made in South Korea around the Same quality & Same Price

Difference : Samsung : South Korean Laborer Worker.. $ 10.00 and Hour Vizeo: China Labor Worker $ 10.00 a Day

There is the Difference! Profit Profit ..

America is getting over populated with Immigrants


We need to bring the Company's Back


and How about this too!!

The Past

Networks ban W.R. Grace's Deficit Trials (1986)



wr grace -deficit trials.mp4


The Deficit Trials 2017 A. D.
thedangerouseconomist.blogspot.com...



The Present

Citizens Against Government Waste
Chinese Professor












edit on 22-8-2014 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-8-2014 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:48 AM
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a reply to: Wolfenz

Not really a bigger profit. It's more a question of survival.

The TV is the classic example: When tv's were still made here in the US, the last remaining manufacturer was faced with a dilemma. TV's of similar quality, in all that entails, were being sold here in the US for less than what it cost them to make there here in the US. That is a death knell for a manufacturing company. The choice becomes moving one's operation overseas in order to compete globally, or remaining in the US and going out of business. People will not spend $400 for a TV they can buy for $300 given the same perceived quality, the same features, the same reliability.

There are all these remarks about companies making obscene profits, and yet they, to me, appear to be mythical beasts. I have yet to see a company making more than an 8 or 9% profit margin. If you know of any of these companies making 15% or 20% profit margins, please let me know who they are.

I worked for 23 years for a fortune 50 company... I was privy to information the common lay person would not be. As long as our profit margin exceeded the interest rate offered by banks for savings, we were happy with that. In those days, we were happy with a profit of 5%. That was an incredibly competitive market and a shrinking one, so profits were not fat there...in an expanding market there is more room for a healthier profit, but competition will keep that, normally, below 10%.

I know I am about to be called a liar, or a capitalist, or deceived, or whatever, but I can guarantee you those who will call me such have no practical experience in the real world with such. Flame away! lol



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Mirthful Me

And this is exactly why you need to be preparing for a miserable decade or so in America. I am unsure us surfs could even prepare for something like that but I expect after a world wide financial melt down, we will have another world war and TPTB will be choosing new nations of power for the next 100 years or so.

No way the welfare nation survives.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: bbracken677
yes, actually the union was involved with both.

how many times have major league sports went on strike, cancelling whole seasons till they get better pay and conditions.

remember the writers strike in television?



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: stormson

The players union is more concerned with things other than pay. They may include a minimum in negotiations, but that is about it. Clayton Kershaw's contract was for 7 years, $215 million bucks. That was due to his prowess as a pitcher. Nothing whatsoever to do with the union.

With regards to movie stars, their pay is directly related to their box office power. There is no union that controls their pay...unless you are talking about newbies and walk-ons, in which case there is a union scale, but hardly applicable to the box office stars which is specifically what I related.

The writer's strike also had nothing to do with what I was discussing.

This began with a reference to why CEO's get paid so much and I attributed it to America's fascination with stars. It's ok with people that Kershaw would make 215 million in 7 years (outrageous!) or that some movie star would get 40 or 50 million for a single movie, but for some reason it's not ok for CEOs to make that kind of pay, yet the reasoning behind the high pay is exactly the same. Personally I think they are all overpaid, which is why I no longer follow pro sports (with the notable exception of hockey).

This whole writer's strike is not pertinent and only a side track... same with minimum income sports players (OMG...I am only getting 1.2 million for my first year as a walk on baseball player...boo effing hoo).

There are times when a union is a good deal and needed. There are other times when their corruption, their ignorance and their stubborn stupidity wreak more harm than good.

It appears that rather than following the thread you just picked out a remark regarding unions and zeroed in on that.

edit on 22-8-2014 by bbracken677 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: bbracken677

Look at big oil, and their insane profits.

A whale farts in the gulf, gas prices rise. Why is this acceptable? For midst things, over time competition and more efficient manufacturing make prices go down, but oil? Hell no, jack that price up and up and up, and fed us lies like the time of year makes them change their formula so it screws with the price.

On top of that or government gives them multi millions in subsidies. Why?

Now, how about housing loans? And the scam called the annual percentage rate. Interest compounded into a loan forcing you to pay upwards of three times the value of three house you bought. How is this even legal? If they sold you anything, then told you the price, then rang it up for three times what you agreed on, would you still buy it?

What have they done in work to earn that kind of profit margin? And here's the real rub, think you own the land? Probably not the mineral rights. Whoever opens those can just come along, knock down your house, and mine for whatever, and they only have to pay you the value of your home but not the adjusted value including the interest over the term of your loans.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. There's way more out there, including jewelry y.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: Mirthful Me
Let's examine how dependent people actually are, from the link found in your source, there are four quarters. I will average the quarters together, which gives these numbers - I've added the numbers I could find for outlays:

Recipiency status and program Number Percent Outlays (billions)
All people 308,575 100.00%
Received benefits from one or more programs 152,783 49.51% 1,888.7
Social Security 51,259 16.61% 779.4
Railroad Retirement 351 0.11% 11.6
Veterans' compensation 3,263 1.06% 53.2
Unemployment compensation 4,275 1.39% 40.5
Workers' compensation 614 0.20% ??
Veterans' educational assistance 36 0.01% 10.4
Medicare 48,057 15.57% 579.2
One or more means-tested programs 109,372 35.44% 414.4
Public or subsidized rental housing 13,267 4.30% 56.8
Federal Supplemental Security Income (SSI) 20,301 6.58% 51.7
Food stamps 50,622 16.40% 81
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) 5,443 1.76% 17.1
Other cash assistance 4,886 1.58% ??
Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) 22,742 7.37% 6.6
Medicaid 82,723 26.81% 258


2013 Annual Report of the SSI Program
Veteran's Expenditures
DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT BUDGET OUTLAYS BY PROGRAM COMPARATIVE SUMMARY, FISCAL YEARS 2011-2013
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program CBO Baseline, March 2012
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families Program (TANF) and Contingency Fund CBO March 2012 Baseline
FY2013 BUDGET SUMMARY AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Medicaid Spending and Enrollment Detail for CBO's March 2012 Baseline
Workers' Comp is mostly state-level, so it's a pain in the butt to compile that. Some is also federal. "Other cash assistance" seems to be stuff like education tax credits and the like, but I've had difficulty tracking down the numbers.

Perhaps it's useful to understand what these programs are for. SSI is made for disabled, like blind/deaf/crippled people, and that's about an eighth of the means-tested programs. Seems kind of rude to pick on crippled people.

Of the $1,888.7 billion in outlays that I could find, $779.4B are Social Security (41.2%), $579.2B are Medicare (30.7%), and $258B are Medicaid (13.7%).

That leaves only $272.1 billion (14.4%!) left spread out amongst: Railroad Retirement, Veterans' compensation, Unemployment compensation, Veterans' educational assistance, public/subsidized housing, SSI, food stamps, TANF, and WIC.

I don't know about you, but the 'welfare state' doesn't seem to be all that big, unless you want to include Social Security and Medicare into the mix.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: HauntWok

Exxon posted profit margin was 8% last I looked. Are you saying that is outrageous?

What is the profit margin on housing loans? You mention margin, but then fail to deliver.

Let's talk numbers instead of emotions.

Numbers or it's all emotional tripe. Give me some numbers and I will go along with ye, otherwise blow it. I have no idea what the profit margin is for jewelry, but I would suspect it is less than you think.

Also...the last time I checked, the Saudis and others like them were the ones making the obscene profits. It costs them about $8 per barrel to get the oil up out of the ground, and then they sell it on the market for over $100...

edit on 22-8-2014 by bbracken677 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: Greven

While you are absolutely right, the reality of the situation is rather different than at first glance:



Perhaps it's useful to understand what these programs are for. SSI is made for disabled, like blind/deaf/crippled people, and that's about an eighth of the means-tested programs. Seems kind of rude to pick on crippled people.


Most of those in a HUD community are collecting SSI. How? I have no idea since most of them are NOT disabled in any form, manner or appearance that I could tell. Almost everyone I interviewed were collecting approx $660 (plus some change) a month...month after month after month. Most were in their 30s or 40s and seemed healthy to me. I was not there to collect the whys and hows of their SSI claims, but if you are talking to someone who walked in, sat down and can carry on a conversation without any apparent disabilities then I would tend to cry BS. They were also paying the minimum of $25/month for their all utilities paid apartment. They are also collecting SNAP.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: bbracken677
If they do not meet SSI eligibility, then perhaps some sort of scam is going on.

I know it took most of a year for my aunt to get approved for disability (work-related), even though she had medical documents and was clearly disabled - simply due to changes in the bureaucratic process to eliminate fraudulent cases.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 10:18 PM
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a reply to: Greven

I agree... I know there were a couple that I was pretty sure had mental problems and either deserved the SSI or should have been placed somewhere else, if you get my drift, but the rest seemed hale of body and mind. Perhaps not the brightest bulbs in the store, but not "mentally challenged". It seemed to me the biggest problem was education, or lack thereof.

I have known a couple of people who had the dickens of a time getting disability.

On the other hand I recently read an article about how certain judges have had their hands spanked for seemingly rubber stamping disability cases. Seems that their approval levels far exceeded 90%.



posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 06:50 AM
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originally posted by: OptimusCrime
You're right. But, the other real welfare queens and kings have learned to abuse the system to their advantage and not look for a job. Rather sit at 701 Crosby Street yelling and moaning about where my food stamps and free money are other than use the time to advance themselves and put applications in. It goes both ways.


But what are the facts? The facts are that in countries that pay higher benefits to unemployed the unemployment rates are not significantly higher than in countries that pay less. But ALL people are happier there.

Also, we should either stop innovation, automation and get rid of efficiency - or live with the fact that "unemployment" will be the rule in the future. Working hard is what needs to be done if you have a lot of people who don't have sufficient products and no machines to make them. But even now we already have PLENTY of machines and products even for the huge amounts of people we now have.

We don't NEED more productivity - we need better distribution of what we already have. People should be freed to do what machines can't do: socialize, make music, play theatre, debate politics, make more music, educate and get an education - work on creating more happyness for OTHERS instead of just working on happyness for ourselves. Explore space again, perhaps.



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