Darren Wilson Suffered Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket during attack

a reply to: RodNasty

You don't have to agree. The coroner puts it in a manner that it can only be from one of two scenarios. One is that he charged the cop. The other is that he somehow shot him at close range on the top of the head with no powder burns occurring. I know the one that sounds more likely to me based off of Brown's behavior on video when he robbed a place.

originally posted by: rickymouse
Didn't they say that the door bounced back in his face when he opened the door. That could have done that to him. I could believe that the kid did shove the door back at him as he tried to get out of the car. That is a reason to draw a gun but not to shoot...six times.

Don't police cars have cameras on them that record some things if turned on, the ones here do for recording traffic stops. It has audio.

To be fair, a cop (or anyone) should never draw their weapon unless they intend to use it. If something justifies pulling the gun in the first place it also justifies using it and when you use a gun you shoot center mass and don't stop until the person is down. That's just best practices. Now whether the officer should have drawn his gun in the first place is a completely different question.

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: Vasa Croe
Yes, that one shot. He specifically points to a single entry wound, and says that shot could have been either way. He does not make the same pronouncement for the rest of the wounds.

What about the entry wound that went down, through his eye socket, through his face and jaw and into his collar bone?
What about the upper-right chest entry wound, if his head were down and he was charging like a bull (I guess) at the officer?
What about the 3 entry wounds on the inside of his arms - how do you get those charging? Try to reenact that scenario yourself.

It doesn't say they were on the inside of his arm. From the drawing they appear more front top of arm. I don't need to re-enact it. I have run with my head down enough time to know that it bobs up and down when I run and occasionally I have to look up to see where I'm going. He was hit first in the arm then chest and head. It is a classic muzzle rise shot pattern when firing multiple shots at a target. You will hit and drift up right depending on what hand you fire with. Officer was most likely going center mass and while charging, Brown's are was in front of center mass until hit a few times and his arm dropped allowing the chest shot then he looked up allowing the face shot and as he fell forward the final shot hit the top of his skull.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: RodNasty

You don't have to agree. The coroner puts it in a manner that it can only be from one of two scenarios. One is that he charged the cop. The other is that he somehow shot him at close range on the top of the head with no powder burns occurring. I know the one that sounds more likely to me based off of Brown's behavior on video when he robbed a place.

Why close range? Could he not be bent over in pain from the other shots or in a submissive position?

a reply to: Vasa Croe
Then you cannot read the drawing.
Put your right hand at your side and turn your palms facing away from you with your thumbs pointed out like the autopsy drawing.
The inside of your elbow is also facing away from you. Every shot hit that side of his arm.
Use your left hand to place a finger where each entry wound is in the sketch.
Turn your arms around and figure out a scenario where what the police said happened, happened. I cannot.

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: Vasa Croe
Then you cannot read the drawing.
Put your right hand at your side and turn your palms facing away from you with your thumbs pointed out like the autopsy drawing.
Use your left hand to place a finger where each entry wound is in the sketch.
Turn your arms around and figure out a scenario where what the police said happened, happened. I cannot.

Yep...there's about a two inch difference which can still be perceived as front of arm. I can read just fine. Trying to make this a conspiracy is silly. The thug rushed a cop and got shot multiple times...like I said in my earlier post...classic muzzle rise pattern. So...in your theory he got shot from the back in the arm, turned around after then took one to the eye and top of head? The eye shot was from the front.....

a reply to: Vasa Croe
No. You can't.

Another problem: He's 6'4".
Figure out how tall Wilson has to be to shoot directly down through his eye, jaw, and into his collarbone.

You also refuse to accept that Dr. Baden, a really experienced and famous medical examiner, was specifically talking about one shot. You are applying his statements to every other shot. You are misquoting and misapplying his words.

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: RodNasty

You don't have to agree. The coroner puts it in a manner that it can only be from one of two scenarios. One is that he charged the cop. The other is that he somehow shot him at close range on the top of the head with no powder burns occurring. I know the one that sounds more likely to me based off of Brown's behavior on video when he robbed a place.

Why close range? Could he not be bent over in pain from the other shots or in a submissive position?

Cole be, but police training is to eliminate the threat...not disable it. If he was firing shots in succession it fits the pattern of muzzle rise that would be found.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: RodNasty

You don't have to agree. The coroner puts it in a manner that it can only be from one of two scenarios. One is that he charged the cop. The other is that he somehow shot him at close range on the top of the head with no powder burns occurring. I know the one that sounds more likely to me based off of Brown's behavior on video when he robbed a place.

Why close range? Could he not be bent over in pain from the other shots or in a submissive position?

Cole be, but police training is to eliminate the threat...not disable it. If he was firing shots in succession it fits the pattern of muzzle rise that would be found.

Did they release info on how fast the shots where fired?

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: Vasa Croe
No. You can't.

Another problem: He's 6'4".
Figure out how tall Wilson has to be to shoot directly down through his eye, jaw, and into his collarbone.

Sure I can. If Brown is starting to collapse from the initial shots hitting his arm and chest but the officer is still firing then it is very feasible for a bullet to strike his eye, bounce off a bone and travel down....happens all the time. You think bullets don't fragment or bounce off bone and end up in odd spots? So you're suggesting, from your comment, that Brown sat down, Wilson walked up to him and asked him to tilt his head backward so he could fire a straight down shot? Very believable....

a reply to: sosobad

Unless someone caught it in the background of a cell phone call in the area to record the audio of the shooting, I don't know how that could be done.
Or if his radio mike was on.

a reply to: Vasa Croe
Not from a couple of feet away, which is the police story - he 'charged' Wilson and Wilson dropped him mere feet away.

See that dotted line? That's the path of the bullet. Figure out how that came from the front.

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: Vasa Croe
No. You can't.

Another problem: He's 6'4".
Figure out how tall Wilson has to be to shoot directly down through his eye, jaw, and into his collarbone.

You also refuse to accept that Dr. Baden, a really experienced and famous medical examiner, was specifically talking about one shot. You are applying his statements to every other shot. You are misquoting and misapplying his words.

Sorry....just saw the last part of your post. If one shot is implied that way then they all are. I don't recall any witness on either side saying he killed him execution style. And the autopsy completely rules out the initial witness reports of Brown being shot in the back.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: sosobad

Unless someone caught it in the background of a cell phone call in the area to record the audio of the shooting, I don't know how that could be done.
Or if his radio mike was on.

That's my point, nobody knows if the shots where fired in rapid succession or if the officer walked up on him firing at a slower pace, he could be on his knees and bending over reacting to being shot.

a reply to: Vasa Croe
Witnesses reported him being shot at from behind. As the only one really close to him was Johnson, it is understandable that they may not see whether he was hit from behind. If you can find sources where a particular witness specifically said Brown was shot in the back, you could even help discredit them with accuracy. Vague allegations are not helpful.

edit: And NO, him saying one shot suggests something does not imply that the rest do. Nor did he suggest that it had to have been him charging at the cop. You are so undeniably wrong that it is absurd that you are continuing this line of reasoning.

originally posted by: Greven
a reply to: Vasa Croe
Not from a couple of feet away, which is the police story - he 'charged' Wilson and Wilson dropped him mere feet away.

See that dotted line? That's the path of the bullet. Figure out how that came from the front.

The final shot came from feet away. And I can easily explain that shot. Crouch over like your about to charge then look straight ahead still crouched....exact same line as the bullet. Through the eye, down the jaw and into the collar bone. That shot is the second to last to hit....it drops Brown and the final shot is the top of the head as he is dropping.

a reply to: sosobad

Correct. We really don't know how it went down for certain.

ETA: I think we could have three clear videos from different angles of the whole shooting and there would still be arguments as to what happened. Look at the video from the store robbery.

a reply to: Vasa Croe
Are you saying he is literally a bull?

Because if I am charging at someone, my head sure as hell ain't that far down. I'd be nearly doubled over at the waist.

And I'm not nearly as tall as Brown was.

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: RodNasty

You don't have to agree. The coroner puts it in a manner that it can only be from one of two scenarios. One is that he charged the cop. The other is that he somehow shot him at close range on the top of the head with no powder burns occurring. I know the one that sounds more likely to me based off of Brown's behavior on video when he robbed a place.

Why close range? Could he not be bent over in pain from the other shots or in a submissive position?

Cole be, but police training is to eliminate the threat...not disable it. If he was firing shots in succession it fits the pattern of muzzle rise that would be found.

Did they release info on how fast the shots where fired?

Training is to fire until the threat is neutralized. In an adrenaline moment you keep firing. I think this is something a lot of people that haven't been in that moment don't understand. It is not some controlled fire a shot her and another there when your life is on the line. It is a fire until threat is down scenario. I am sure these shots were fired in very rapid succession. If he took his time there would be fewer shots and the head shot would have been a few sooner.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: sosobad

Correct. We really don't know how it went down for certain.

Then why is there rampant speculation that he has definitely bullrushed the officer going on, so far both ways seem plausible but members here think they are right no matter what.