Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history

a reply to: windword

I didn't put any words in your mouth. You said it and then you said it again.

I haven't attacked all athiests, in fact on this very page I had an agreeable and polite discussion with one, so your premise is false on this very thread and thus very page. In fact, if you look back, my first post in this was one that suggested the OP was incorrect and that athiests who committed genicide did so because of wealth and land and power, not athiesm, so you are wrong again. In fact the only athiest I get in fights witn is you and that's because you resent me pointing out your hypocrisy and prejudices.

You extrapolate that to ALL athiests because, yet again, you lack insight and tend to project your prejudices and generalizations upon others. Please point out a single post where I said ALL atheists and was not pointing out a single individual or group. You can't because I didn't and you are yet again making false and unfounded accusations. Go ahead--find a post where I said ALL athiests and cut and paste it here.

Just because I get in heated discussions with (liberal, progressives, statists, etc) who happen to be athiests does not mean its because they are athiests--it probably is because of politics and economics. You sound like the OP--that if I argue with an athiest it must be BECAUSE they are an athiest. That's just as illogical and stupid as the claim that Stalin must have been a genocidal dictator because he was an athiest since he happened to be one.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I haven't attacked all athiests,

Yes you did. Here's where it started. Here's what you said.

People who were actually doing something to help their fellow man, unlike atheists who sat back and let better men do the work,
www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=NavyDoc

Yes, you have attacked atheists! It was a point of contention and I accused you of being a poser and not an atheist. That's why I brought it up in this thread, because you made yourself a victim of the same accusation here, again!

You have NOT been criticized for NOT hating theists enough, as you proclaim. You are being criticized, by me, for attacking atheists.

This thread is, in and of itself, an attack on atheists, and here you are on the attack, attacking atheists and atheism! Surprise! Surprise!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

I haven't attacked all athiests,

Yes you did. Here's where it started. Here's what you said.

People who were actually doing something to help their fellow man, unlike atheists who sat back and let better men do the work,
www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=NavyDoc

Yes, you have attacked atheists! It was a point of contention and I accused you of being a poser and not an atheist. That's why I brought it up in this thread, because you made yourself a victim of the same accusation here, again!

You have not been criticized for not hating theists enough, as you proclaim. You are being criticized, by me, for attacking atheists.

This thread is, in and of itself, an attack on atheists, and here you are on the attack, attacking atheists and atheism! Surprise! Surprise!

That's all you got? An out of context snippet? Of course an athiest GROUP who were not at ground zero have no business complaining about a ground zero artifact. You conveniently miss the part where I said that athiests who were at ground zero didn't complain about the artifact in question. If that's all you have, me criticizing a particular group if jerks, you failed miserably.

As for this thread, my very first post was one disagreeing with the OP's premise, so you are incredibly failing in that position. Go ahead, cut and paste my first post and demonstrate to me how that's an attack on athiests.

a reply to: NavyDoc


Hey! I only brought it up because you said that people accuse you of not being an atheist because you "don't hate theists enough."

I merely showed you that I have not accused you of being a fake atheist because you don't hate theists enough, I have accused you of being a fake atheist because of your MO to attack atheists.

Oh, I know, "Look!" you said. "I was being nice to "one" just over here!" LOL

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: windword

I guess you missed the part about my aunt who was a nun?

My gramma was Catholic and did her damnedest to raise me Catholic.

My best childhood friend was Catholic. I used to go to church with her and her family. She also did her damnedest to make me Catholic.

boy, you sure dodged a bullet there!

originally posted by: windword

I merely showed you that I have not accused you of being a fake atheist because you don't hate theists enough, I have accused you of being a fake atheist because of your MO to attack atheists.

Happy to know it isn't just me confused by his post "behavior".

Sorry I missed that thread.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc


Hey! I only brought it up because you said that people accuse you of not being an atheist because you "don't hate theists enough."

I merely showed you that I have not accused you of being a fake atheist because you don't hate theists enough, I have accused you of being a fake atheist because of your MO to attack atheists.

Oh, I know, "Look!" you said. "I was being nice to "one" just over here!" LOL

No, no. Put your money where your mouth is and pull out my first post in this thread and show me how it was attacking athiests.

I don't have an MO for attacking athiests, just fighting with a few prejudiced jerks. If you want to see a pattern, just look at your propensity for anti-religious screeds and compare the two.

Go ahead, cut and post my entire first point in the thread and pint out my attack on athiesm.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: windword

I merely showed you that I have not accused you of being a fake atheist because you don't hate theists enough, I have accused you of being a fake atheist because of your MO to attack atheists.

Happy to know it isn't just me confused by his post "behavior".

Sorry I missed that thread.

We disagree all if the time, but as much as we disagree, you still seem an honest person. Have we ever had a fight that was not about differing views on politics and government?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: windword

I don't hate anybody.

NavyDoc tells me the same thing.

I'm a 100% separation of church and state atheist.

Religion is a belief that I don't think should be politically telling me what I can and can not do.

What people do in their own lives, I don't care ---- as long as it doesn't force itself on me.

Of couse I do because you are for exactly what you say you are against--using the coercive power of the state to force your belief system on your fellow man.

but if there is true separation, it's ok and the only thing to do, logically.

"Prejudiced Jerks" --- determined by Navy Doc.

Holier-then-thou much?

OK, I'm done. It's getting into personal attacks. I don't want any part of that. Later.

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: windword

I don't hate anybody.

NavyDoc tells me the same thing.

I'm a 100% separation of church and state atheist.

Religion is a belief that I don't think should be politically telling me what I can and can not do.

What people do in their own lives, I don't care ---- as long as it doesn't force itself on me.

Of couse I do because you are for exactly what you say you are against--using the coercive power of the state to force your belief system on your fellow man.

Atheism is not a belief.

Actually it is, in a sense it is a way of looking at the universe and life. Also, some people do take it to the level of intolerance and fanatacism that are equal to the most religious fanatic.

No it isn't. Atheism has no one universal outlook. There are as many "atheistic beliefs" as there are atheists.

you might want to walk that back a bit.

i would present that the belief in "NO gods" are center to all the atheists.

originally posted by: Annee
"Prejudiced Jerks" --- determined by Navy Doc.

Holier-then-thou much?

OK, I'm done. It's getting into personal attacks. I don't want any part of that. Later.

So can you answer the question honestly? Have we had any arguement that we had that was not about politics or the role of government?

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: windword

I don't hate anybody.

NavyDoc tells me the same thing.

I'm a 100% separation of church and state atheist.

Religion is a belief that I don't think should be politically telling me what I can and can not do.

What people do in their own lives, I don't care ---- as long as it doesn't force itself on me.

Of couse I do because you are for exactly what you say you are against--using the coercive power of the state to force your belief system on your fellow man.

Atheism is not a belief.

Actually it is, in a sense it is a way of looking at the universe and life. Also, some people do take it to the level of intolerance and fanatacism that are equal to the most religious fanatic.

No it isn't. Atheism has no one universal outlook. There are as many "atheistic beliefs" as there are atheists.

you might want to walk that back a bit.

i would present that the belief in "NO gods" are center to all the atheists.

Thank you.

a reply to: tsingtao

i would present that the belief in "NO gods" are center to all the atheists.

Believe it or not, atheists don't wake up every morning and start their day thinking about how there is no god.

originally posted by: tsingtao


i would present that the belief in "NO gods" are center to all the atheists.

That's actually incorrect. Windword is correct.

Atheism is not a belief.

People have beliefs, individuals have beliefs, atheists are individuals connected by only one thing --- a lack of belief in a god.

originally posted by: hydeman11
a reply to: NavyDoc

Howdy,

Certainly, each person is welcome to their own belief system (and I can almost guarantee that no two people share the same belief system, regardless of how similar some of their beliefs, and I'm glad to hear you have a similar opinion on such). That said, you did not argue that atheists had belief systems, you argued that atheism WAS a belief system.

This is what I do not agree with. One rejected claim cannot make a system. A system is by definition comprised of multiple components. One component is not enough for a system, even if you want to consider a rejection of a claim a belief (which I do not consider to be the case).

If I told you that blue was my favorite colour, that does not make it a belief system. That's just a fact. I find evidence for claims of deities insufficient. That too is a fact. I don't consider these my beliefs, but they do influence how I view the world. Together, you get a clearer understanding of who I am as a human, yes, but that is still not a system of belief.

Now, I do disagree with pushy people trying to force beliefs. I think all people should be able to make informed decisions. That said, demonstrable facts are demonstrable, and if someone chooses to make a claim against demonstrable facts, they are indeed wrong regardless of their right to be wrong.

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

so you are agnostic?
you say the evidence is insufficient, not absent.

i can't stand rap or hip-hop, i'm not alone in that belief.
should we try to get it off the radio? insist that stations not play it?
replace it with smooth jazz, maybe that will chill out the inner cities.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: tsingtao

i would present that the belief in "NO gods" are center to all the atheists.

Believe it or not, atheists don't wake up every morning and start their day thinking about how there is no god.

Right. My first thoughts are how can I contribute to the world today.

What can I do today that might make a difference.

a reply to: Annee

LOL! Really? You don't get out of bed and say, "Yeah! There is no God! Who can I hurt today?"

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Annee

LOL! Really? You don't get out of bed and say, "Yeah! There is no God! Who can I hurt today?"

LOL!

No, never. It's all about personal responsibility.

God never enters the picture.