Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history

a reply to: windword

Christians who believe in and promote the "Hell, fire and damnation" and "End Times" doctrine are NOT in the minority.

The majority of Christians (1.2 billion out of 2.1 billion) are Catholics. The Catholic church does not preach a "Gospel of Fear" (though there are those who think that it should.) The next largest group are the Orthodox Catholics, with about 300 million, and the Orthodox Catholic church does not preach a "Gospel of Fear". In my ten years in the Methodist church, I do not recall ever hearing any sort of sermon that I would categorize as being hellfire and damnation, not surprising to the 80 million Methodists in the world, as the Methodist church does not preach a "Gospel of Fear."

So, that's 1.58 billion Christians who do not promote a "Gospel of Fear". Out of 2.1 billion.

The largest group of churches that do preach hellfire and damnation are the Baptists. There are currently about 46 million Baptists in the world.

Perhaps you can share your mathematical methodology that results in 46 million being larger than 1.58 billion, and 1.58 billion representing the minority in a pool of 2.1 billion.

a reply to: adjensen

Oh, give it a break!

You, a Catholic, used your own "radio show" to promote the concept of Hell. You used your own "radio show" to dispel logic to the contrary (a loving God and Hell don't jibe) and to (attempt) to discredit any discussion/theology of reincarnation.

You said it yourself, on your "radio show" "If there is no Hell, then Jesus died in vain."

Christianity hinges on the existence of a God willing to throw souls into Hell for eternal punishment if they don't toe the "Jesus line". Without fear, coercion and force, Christianity would be nothing like what it is today.

a reply to: adjensen

The Catholic church does not preach a "Gospel of Fear"

are they not the ones who coined the term "god-fearing"?

a reply to: windword

You, a Catholic, used your own "radio show" to promote the concept of Hell.

What are you talking about? "Promote the concept of Hell"? What does that even mean? We had a discussion of whether hell existed, which, as a Christian, I do believe exists. That's never been in question, and it doesn't make the majority of Christians promoters of a "Gospel of Fear."

I give up with you. Your agenda-driven allergy to facts is mind boggling.

It does not matter really. What really matters is most religons are supposed to be peaceful at its core. So why have millions apon millions been slaughtered because of it?

a reply to: Badgered1

However, many of the do call religious wars were not done out if religious belief either--power, land, wealth, greed,etc. are behind the vast majority of conflicts since the dawn of man. Even the Salem Witch trials were really about property (the accused's property was taken) and jealously and settling old scores.

It as just as silly to point to a theist's power grab and say it was caused by religion as it is to point to an athiests power grab and blame atheism.

The truth is that power hungry jerks are going to be motivated by what ALL power hungry jerks are motivated by--land, power, wealth.

a reply to: adjensen

I give up with you. Your agenda-driven allergy to facts is mind boggling.

Hmm. Me thinks you're the one with an allergy to facts.

What are you talking about? "Promote the concept of Hell"? What does that even mean? We had a discussion of whether hell existed, which, as a Christian, I do believe exists. That's never been in question, and it doesn't make the majority of Christians promoters of a "Gospel of Fear."

Did you, a Catholic, or did you not use the platform of your ATS radio show to promote the idea of Hell, against the presentation of a poster's thread that argued that Hell didn't exist? That's promoting the concept of Hell and your show reinforced the thought process that one should have a healthy fear of God and Hell.

Did you, or did you not then extend that concept of Hell as a reason to deny the idea of reincarnation, because "if there is no Hell, then Jesus died in vain."?

Don't answer that Adj, it's a rhetorical question. We know that you did.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: adjensen

Oh, give it a break!

You, a Catholic, used your own "radio show" to promote the concept of Hell. You used your own "radio show" to dispel logic to the contrary (a loving God and Hell don't jibe) and to (attempt) to discredit any discussion/theology of reincarnation.

You said it yourself, on your "radio show" "If there is no Hell, then Jesus died in vain."

Christianity hinges on the existence of a God willing to throw souls into Hell for eternal punishment if they don't toe the "Jesus line". Without fear, coercion and force, Christianity would be nothing like what it is today.

But that's not how Christianity today is--at least in the west.

The closest you come to hellfire in most western denominations is tobasco at a cookout.

This athiest frequently hits up the local Catholics for a fish fry on a Friday.

a reply to: NavyDoc

The Pope instigated the greatest land/power grab, that enabled the entire European/Western world to use religion to take over the planet.

Papal Bulls of the 15th century gave Christian explorers the right to claim lands they "discovered" and lay claim to those lands for their Christian Monarchs. Any land that was not inhabited by Christians was available to be "discovered", claimed, and exploited. If the "pagan" inhabitants could be converted, they might be spared. If not, they could be enslaved or killed.

The religious excuse for war, genocide and countless unethical strategies is upheld in western courts to this day!

This Doctrine governs United States Indian Law today and has been cited as recently as 2005 in the decision City Of Sherrill V. Oneida Indian Nation Of N.Y.

www.doctrineofdiscovery.org...

a reply to: NavyDoc

But that's not how Christianity today is--at least in the west.

The closest you come to hellfire in most western denominations is tobasco at a cookout.

BS! Christianity change? The Catholic Church change? LOL!

Sorry, but I know what I'm talking about. I grew up in a Pentecostal Church, Assemply of God Church. End of times, Hell fire and damnation were a regular staple. But, we were in good company! My great aunt, who was a nun, never missed the opportunity to remind of Hell's fires.

Hallelujah

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

The Pope instigated the greatest land/power grab, that enabled the entire European/Western world to use religion to take over the planet.

Papal Bulls of the 15th century gave Christian explorers the right to claim lands they "discovered" and lay claim to those lands for their Christian Monarchs. Any land that was not inhabited by Christians was available to be "discovered", claimed, and exploited. If the "pagan" inhabitants could be converted, they might be spared. If not, they could be enslaved or killed.

The religious excuse for war, genocide and countless unethical strategies is upheld in western courts to this day!

This Doctrine governs United States Indian Law today and has been cited as recently as 2005 in the decision City Of Sherrill V. Oneida Indian Nation Of N.Y.

www.doctrineofdiscovery.org...

Yeah, pretty much what every ruler was doing or trying to do in the 15th century, so?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

But that's not how Christianity today is--at least in the west.

The closest you come to hellfire in most western denominations is tobasco at a cookout.

BS! Christianity change? The Catholic Church change? LOL!

Sorry, but I know what I'm talking about. I grew up in a Pentecostal Church, Assemply of God Church. End of times, Hell fire and damnation were a regular staple. But, we were in good company! My great aunt, who was a nun, never missed the opportunity to remind of Hell's fires.

Hallelujah

That explains the fanatical Jack Trick hatred of Catholics.

I was raised Catholic and it was all about love and peace--all those hippies took over after Vatican Two. LOL.

God doesn't exist, but the vast majority of western Christians are harmless unless you hat hot plate socials and bingo.

I wonder if my atheism is mellow because I had a mellow upbringing and your atheism is fanatical and hateful because your upbringing was fanatical and hateful--projection reaction is the psychological name for it.

a reply to: NavyDoc

so?

So, the title of this thread! "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history" is entirely in error!

Religion is not above, or better than the secular, in fact, religion is at the root of our discontent.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

so?

So, the title of this thread! "Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history" is entirely in error!

Religion is not above, or better than the secular, in fact, religion is the root of our discontent.

I don't disagree, in fact, if you look up a few posts, my first post in the thread was to disagree with the original premise. Power, greed, and avarice cause most wars, not religion or lack thereof. Those motivators are the same across the religiosity spectrum.

a reply to: NavyDoc


Christianity hinges on the "FEAR OF GOD".

As another poster pointed out, it was Catholics that coined the phrase "God Fearing" as being a good thing.

Without the threat of Hell, force and coercion, Christianity could claim nothing of the empire that it claims today. It has no plan to put down the concept of Hell, as our friend Adjenson has clearly shown. Hell is a Christian concept used to keep people in line, and it's not a concept that is going anywhere any time soon.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc


Christianity hinges on the "FEAR OF GOD".

As another poster pointed out, it was Catholics that coined the phrase "God Fearing" as being a good thing.

Without the threat of Hell, force and coercion, Christianity could claim nothing of the empire that it claims today. It has no plan to put down the concept of Hell, as our friend Adjenson has clearly shown. Hell is a Christian concept used to keep people in line, and it's not a concept that is going anywhere any time soon.

No. I think your Pentecostal upbringing has warped your perceptions. Not once was that brought up in the churches I grew up in, nor Sunday school, nor confirmation class. The message was always love. Love of god and your fellow man. Nice sentiment except for the fact that there is no god and if there was one, he must be a right bastard.

Methinks that you are projecting your own issues upon others.

a reply to: NavyDoc

All you have to do is look at all the Doomsday porn that exists here on ATS to know that Christianity hinges on fear and the threat of Hell!

Like I said, Hell, fire and damnation are daily Christian staples, Catholicism is no different, except that it adds a crucial and special dash of guilt to the mix.

Just because you don't pay attention to it doesn't mean that the threat of Hell isn't mainstream and mainstay Christianity.

Christianity is an "either/or" religion.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

All you have to do is look at all the Doomsday porn that exists here on ATS to know that Christianity hinges on fear and the threat of Hell!

Like I said, Hell, fire and damnation are daily Christian staples, Catholicism is no different, except that it adds a crucial and special dash of guilt to the mix.

Just because you don't pay attention to it doesn't mean that the threat of Hell isn't mainstream and mainstay Christianity.

Christianity is an "either/or" religion.

Look at your own posts in this thread--you can see all of the hate, all of the vitriol, all of the fear and anger that you project on Christians. That last post was very frightening in its intensity. You really need to hold up a mirror and take a long look at yourself before going on and on about hate red and fear and fanatacism in others.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Okay, your defensive. I hit a nerve!

You're Catholic. You were baptized Catholic, raised Catholic, married a Catholic girl and are raising your children Catholic. But, you don't believe on bit of it, and you feel guilty that your wife and children think that you're going to Hell, so you're over compensating by attacking me.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NavyDoc

Okay, your defensive. I hit a nerve!

You're Catholic. You were baptized Catholic, raised Catholic, married a Catholic girl and are raising your children Catholic. But, you don't believe on bit of it, and you feel guilty that your wife and children think that you're going to Hell, so you're over compensating by attacking me.

Not defensive at all. Just pointing out that you are being more hateful and fanatical in this thread than the Christians you say are so hateful.

I'm not Catholic. I was raised as such, but outgrew it. It wasn't a bad upbringing. I was not abused or intimidated or told I was going to hell--it just didn't make any sense when I discovered science as a teen. I don't hate them, I just don't believe. Unlike you, who seem not to just disbelieve but actually hate them with every bit the vitriol of the Westboro Baptists.

Nope--you are so wrong. My wife was never a believer but grew up in an agnostic household. My kids don't "believe" in evolution, they understand it for the scientific fact it is and they are working hard to make the best if themselves because they know that there is no invisible man in the sky who is going to "save" them. They have to take care if themselves.

But, unlike you, they don't blindly hate someone for what they may or may not believe.

And heck, you are the one who pulled my family into the discussion and that, in and of itself, demonstrates your level of hatred.

Seriously. All of that animosity is not healthy. I sincerely suggest you get some help, not just for your own well being but for those around you.