America Where Do You Rank in the World? Know Your Place!!

Think on this, the Military is an expression of control, why this is important to realize is that control by it's nature must continually escalate in order to be effective. The Universal Law of Control though is that, by it's nature is it is an unsustainable force.

This is a good and a bad thing, good because an explosion eventually dies out, bad because a Military Power will justifiably escalate until to turns on it's own people for not continuing to support it's continual escalation.

The problem as you have pointed out is the mechanism to regulate the military and through 'reason' engage it's capacity to instigate it's capabilities in order to defend and protect.

This is an instance were capitalism is actually threatening America rather than enhancing it.

When you allow private enterprise to build weapons, they need those weapons to be continually used to ensure they continually make a profit to pay their employees and their investors.

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

This is the best post I have read on ATS in a long time!!

Not because it agrees with my point of view but because it speaks to my heart and the truth behind why I made the thread.....

The vast majority of us support the troops, however dislike how they are used, how they are made out to be monsters by the media, and how they are treated when they get back.

I could not agree more! I do not think the US has the right to impose their democracy on someone else's culture regardless of where that country is in the world! The United States is very arrogant in insisting we know what is better for everyone, do it our way!!

When you take the men and women who have been sent to a sand box to train, and help another country handle it's own government it's own security and it's own issues and your purpose is insuring they can do it their way...This is a good thing right? We were asked and then begged to be there.....and How were we thanked? With the murder of a US General on the steps of a celebration of progress that had been made in that very setting!!

My point is do not demonize the men and women whom have sacrificed a hell of a lot by helping out others.......

Thank you lyx for a beautiful and heartfelt post!!

Pax

originally posted by: paxnatus
a reply to: Sremmos80
...
Take Obama for example, The Military advice he received was to NOT pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq too quickly or all at once. He was warned the consequences of what would happen if he did! He insisted doing things his way because he was using our Military as an advancement in his upcoming Presidential election....He did not care a damn about our troops or the ME only about his power and greed!! Look where we are today? Now facing the possibility that we will have to send many more back in that god forsaken area to clean up their mess!! And if you hear no mention of this it is because many troops are and still there!! Many more than 300!!
...

I sense that you feel America's values should be thought of as superior to backwards Islamist fundamentalist values like the Islamic State profess, and I really respect that view. The real issue here is one of practicality:

Obama ended military actions in Iraq because he was a politician following polls. The public did not support that war. The reason the public did not support that war was because almost a decade in, there was no end in sight. We saw the image of US forces endlessly playing police to that country. Like it or not, that dynamic hasn't changed. American military are still playing that role. Come in, bomb some things, leave, wait for things to blow up again to come back.

The actual failure was in setting up a strong and credible regional government that could stay in control, and act as a permanently stabilizing influence. I live in a country where a foreign power (The British) tried to set up government, and eventually failed in 1776. The lasting government here came from the local people, and like it or not, that's what exactly is going to happen in Iraq and the rest of ME. I think IS exists as a backlash, and long term won't win, because they don't actually represent local people. But at some point we have to be willing to support from a distance imperfect regional powers - rather than relying on constant military intervention - to get things done, or we'll be in the middle east forever.

Once America was a Republic.

US citizens got the warning.


US citizen did not act. The news media was bought up by corporations who have their own agenda and the politicians was also corrupted so that very few stood for reason and questioning what was going on.

And now we have a repeat of the history of Germany before 2nd world war. People are feed nationalism and illusion of freedom and easy answers from the controllers of the system around them causing all the problem citizens have using the old create the problem to be allowed to implement the solution you want.

I though 1984 by George Orwell was meant for people to avoid insanity. Not an instruction manual on how to implement it. Seem I was wrong.

a reply to: paxnatus

Can you explain how you percieve you are free because of your military please.
You were quite strong about it in your OP, you had it in capitals.
Thanks in advance

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
Once America was a Republic.

I thought 1984 by George Orwell was meant for people to avoid insanity. Not an instruction manual on how to implement it. Seem I was wrong.

how true, how true, the problem is when you create an instruction manual to be a better person by giving examples of how bad it can be, those examples can easily be used by others to become even worse.

a reply to: paxnatus

I do like this thread, here are some interesting opinions for sure going back and forth...

I do have to say from my perspective having served.

I never wanted to get special treatment because I was in the military, I joined the military because I wanted to serve my country and give back to a country that had given so much to me and my family.

I do have to say after having served, I love this country more then I did before I put on a uniform......

I love the PEOPLE of this country , and what we USE to stand for.......

I do not however condone the actions by our government and how they use the military wing and my brothers and sisters in arms as a weapon to accomplish their own agendas...

There were plenty of times that the gov itself asked us to do things that made no sense, and that cost the lives and compromised objectives......

Many times asked to do things that would give up ground many died for.......

This gov has lost the respect it had for the women and men who serve this country. THey do not look at them anymore as a means to protect the country, the military has been objectified by the gov as a means to accomplish an end......

Expendable......A tool.......

It hurts to see so many people show so little respect for men and women in Uniform.......It hurts to hear and see the things that this country does to those who have served, and the lack care to those who have come home.

But honestly, where was this learned? The gov shows no respect for them, we are used and thrown away.

The populace has learned to look at them this way.

This country needs a return to honor, it needs a return to truth, and objectivity.......

Our military men and women want nothing more then to serve, and do GOOD things.......

This cannot happen until the corruption rampant in our gov is brought under control....

Just my two cents...........I love my country and I wouldnt change my experience for anything

Kudos on your thread Pax!

To all Americans, if we do not stop blaming each other for all the ills in our country, WE ARE GOING TO FALL!!
If we do not get behind our defenders WE WILL NOT STAND!!

Seems to be the goal...as for our defenders...nothing more than a high powered security detail for the super wealthy power brokers within high finance, government, gas and oil industry , corporate masters and the Magic Stream Media.

Might be a good thing we fall and in the billions. Maybe leave 5 people on the planet.

Anyone watch The Newsroon?

This clip is awesome: Go to the 4:00 mark if you want to save a little time and get to the best part.
(explicit language warning)

Yes I have to agree with your statement. We are also the only Western European Country to have never had a colony or Invade other countries! Go Irelandaa reply to: SecretKnowledge

originally posted by: paxnatus

i am surprised by most of you that have said while I support the military I dont support what they do.....I guess i was looking for a more valiant response. Look at how they are the first to render aide, they are the good guys believe it or not! They personal have no authority on where they go or what they do...I think instead of bashing their efforts they deserve recognition and a thank you.....

I served in the military as well and many of the wars we have been engaged in were not for spreading freedom and democracy but for wealth and control over other countries. We do not even have democracy here as many members remind me we are a Republic!

Also our freedoms have been on the decline thanks to politicians and not the terrorists. They did it!

Support The Troops is a Political Propaganda Stunt to get everyone on board with whatever plans the politicians have.
How do you propose the citizens oppose wars they are against and support the troops at the same time?

If citizens went and protested the wars in DC, it would be turned around by the media that we are not supporting the Troops. That is how the propaganda they engage in works.

a reply to: jacobe001

Go back and read what Man behind the Mask said! I for one am NOT supporting any political cause, big oil or propaganda BS!

I am supporting men and women who are willing to leave their families, friends, and loved ones for me and mine! I am supporting the men and women who have missed the birth of their children, monumental birthdays, Anniversaries, deaths in their own families, Graduations, Weddings, and every holiday or celebration you can think of, for me and many others here. That kind of sacrifice is not easy to come by and you know this....

I said nothing about special treatment how about a little respect and gratitude for once. How about not calling the military a murderous bunch of war mongers (and you, as in everyone) baby killers, propaganda POS etc..!

The individuals of the military do not have a say in where they are deployed or for how long or what their mission is....that is completely out of their hands. However they love their country and the people in it to uphold an oath and lay down their life for you and me! what greater gift could one give?

How many here can say you would be willing to fight for a stranger, give up everything so you may sleep better at night, so no threat of any kind comes banging on your own front door!! So no crazy Jihad is running rampant on the Mall in D.C, this is what I am saying!!

Yes our politicians are as corrupt as they come! Do you know how many men and women after giving 10 years of service and could have retired with 15, got out of the military because they could not take orders from this Commander in Chief?? Stating he did not have their interest at heart and did not support them...They loved what they did but could not agree with what this President was doing and what he stood for! Thousands!!

It is the ones in charge who are to blame! Notice I did not say leaders because this President and his administration
have failed to lead....But please give the respect to our men and women who have earned it! They have volunteered to go fight in a foreign land so you will not have to!

Pax

originally posted by: paxnatus
We are considered the number 1 SUPER POWER IN THE WORLD! We NEED to join together and support our Military. They are the reason you are FREE!

To all Americans, if we do not stop blaming each other for all the ills in our country, WE ARE GOING TO FALL!!
If we do not get behind our defenders WE WILL NOT STAND!!

The USA is not considered a superpower anymore by anyone except it's own citizens. The military of the USA - although only doing what it was told to do - is not the reason the country and it's citizens are free, but is a major part of why it's not. The United States military is not defending a thing and hasn't for a very, very long time.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
a reply to: paxnatus

Can you please explain this line,

They are the reason you are FREE!

You see i dont get that line, we here in Ireland have no army and we're "free"
Most other countries in the World are "free" too..

So why are you free because of your military?

I guess all our 'freeness' is somehow guaged by our per capita prison population. Who ever is not 'in the system' is free to try to stay out of it. We needs loads and loads of military to keep ourselves this free while we meddle in the rest of the world's affairs.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

How can you say they are not defending a thing? How about every time Russia enters our airspace?

Russia Violates U.S. Airspace--Russian nuclear bombers violated U.S. airspace



Northcom says Russian nuclear bombers violated U.S. airspace during arctic war games

The U.S. Northern Command and joint U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defense (NORAD) Command said two Russian bombers violated U.S. airspace near Alaska during recent arctic war games.

Disclosure by the command in charge of U.S. homeland defense followed a report in the Free Beacon quoting U.S. officials who said the Russian aircraft had threatened U.S. air space but did not cross into it and were met over the Pacific by U.S. F-15 interceptor jets.

link

a reply to: paxnatus

And check out the comments of your source, purely sensationalism.
From your source

“There was a single out-of-area patrol by two Russian
long range bombers which entered the Alaska ADIZ that were visually
identified by NORAD fighters,” John Cornelio, chief spokesman for Northcom, said in an email response to questions about the recent war games. ADIZ is the Alaska Air Defense Identification Zone, a line of airspace surrounding Alaska used by the military to monitor aircraft threats.

The ADIZ is not our airspace it is a zone that norad keeps an eye on to give us more time to see planes coming in.
So yes they may have entered it but they are allowed to enter it, it is not our airspace

originally posted by: paxnatus
a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

How can you say they are not defending a thing? How about every time Russia enters our airspace?

Russia Violates U.S. Airspace--Russian nuclear bombers violated U.S. airspace



Northcom says Russian nuclear bombers violated U.S. airspace during arctic war games

The U.S. Northern Command and joint U.S.-Canadian North American Aerospace Defense (NORAD) Command said two Russian bombers violated U.S. airspace near Alaska during recent arctic war games.

Disclosure by the command in charge of U.S. homeland defense followed a report in the Free Beacon quoting U.S. officials who said the Russian aircraft had threatened U.S. air space but did not cross into it and were met over the Pacific by U.S. F-15 interceptor jets.

link

I didn't realise the USA was under threat of attack from Russian war games. I'm sure, by the way, that the USA has done the exact same thing as the Russians did in the example you gave and therefore some country or other had to 'defend' themselves from them.

I think you know that what I meant was an actual threat. An actual threat.