.223 or .308?

a reply to: smithjustinb

You may want to look at the 300 aac blackout. I've been considering adding one to my collection for the last couple months.

originally posted by: switchqm8
On the ar platform you can swap out uppers. You can go from a 223/556 to a 7.62x39. if i am not mistaken is the 7.62x39 similar to the 308 or am i wrong still a newbie thanks

Kinda close, 7.62x39 is mainly found in AK/SKS type weapons. Its a Russian military cartridge, used to be able to buy up surplus dirt cheap. Shooting a SKS with surplus ammo didn't cost much more than shooting .22LR about ten or so years ago. But now with the sanctions in place, it's probably gonna be a little harder to find. Haven't really looked for any 7.62x39 in years, so someone correct me if i'm wrong.

.308 Win is also known as 7.62 NATO, 7.62x51 to be exact. They're nearly identical afaik, the only difference is you gotta check headspace. Some mil weapons chambered in 7.62 NATO have a bit deeper chamber than commercial .308 i believe.

The 7.62 NATO round is gonna have quite a bit more "oomph" due to more space in the brass for powder.

BTW, didn't know you could pick a civvie version of the SCAR. Only familiar with the SCAR-L (5.56) and SCAR-H (7.62) from playing Battlefield.

For my money though, I'd love to have a Springfield M1A, a near clone of the mil-spec M14, which was an improved version of the M1 Garand.

a reply to: smithjustinb

I believe most of the back pressure goes thru the buttstock and not the lower receiver. I do not think they would make the upper if the lower could not handle it.they also make a 50 cal upper for the ar platform so i think they can take it i may be wrong not 100 percent sure im still learning myself.

IMHO being a hunter AND former military......

.308 all day long

.223 is ok but I hunt in a variety of areas, from white tails in Texas to moose up north......and I can take down anything with a .308 it has the punch.......

And if long range knock out power is what you want......that round will reach out and touch it

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

Thank you for the info

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: g146541
Know that the US went to 5.56 from 30 cal for a reason, look into this as well.

My understanding was that if they killed someone, the other soldiers would keep fighting, but if they wounded someone, the wounded would have to be attended to by medics and other personnel, and that would more effectively reduce the amount of time the battle would take to neutralize the threat.

And you can carry a whole hell of a lot more ammo.

Modern day .223/5.56 hunting/defense ammunition is pretty devastating.

I had a Scar-17 but sold it because I couldn't afford to feed it. It was the softest recoiling .308 I had ever shot. A damned fine rifle and very accurate in regards to "battle rifle" standards.

Someone suggested a lower and duel uppers. Colt is now making a .223/.308 combo. I believe that would be an extremely practical shtf setup.

a reply to: smithjustinb

Such a huge jump between 2 ammos that I think both have their problems.

.223 has well known stopping power problems, and .308 is going to be a bastard if you ever have to carry a ton of rounds.

Why not considering 5.45x39 or 7.62x39?

a reply to: TiedDestructor

Oh interesting have to look into that colt you speak of thanks

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

It's everywhere. Super common ammo and you can get a thousand rounds or more for under 200 dollars.

I would say that this ammo is produced many places outside of Russia, so I wouldn't be concerned with sanctions.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

It's everywhere. Super common ammo and you can get a thousand rounds or more for under 200 dollars.

I would say that this ammo is produced many places outside of Russia, so I wouldn't be concerned with sanctions.

Ah, thanks. Still kicking myself for not grabbing a nice SK back when they were EVERYWHERE, and could pick up a nice one for about 2 hundo. AK/SK variants (well, the ones worth a crap, made in a country with good QC) have skyrocketed in price. Damn near fainted when I priced one recently.

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic
Yea i hear you coming from jersey and never being into guns and now where i live it is all about guns i hear how cheap ak sks used to be. Hell could of bought 2-3 for the price they are going for now ..

I don't know how far you think your going to have to shoot in a extreme scenario but except in few few cases I would think most shooting would be 100-150 yards and most times much less.

I have had about every firearm you can think of and sold most off over the years to consolidate. It is too expensive to buy 30 different calibers of ammo and keep stocked.

Although most will disagree with me I am sure I have whittled it down to just a few rifles and 2 pistols.

Now to start a flame war....I believe for a SHTF scenario the Ruger Mini-14 is far better than any AR platform. I have owned a handful of each and have quite a bit of experience with both. The Ruger will eat ANY ammo you feed it and is not picky in the least. It never fails to feed (the 4 I have owned) or eject and just keeps shooting and shooting. All my Ar's wouldn't shoot steel case ammo more than a half dozen rounds without cleaning, they would start jamming up and wouldn't feed. They work fine with higher dollar ammo but if the SHTF who knows what you'll be shooting?
The Ruger also is half the price. Yeah the Ar is more accurate if your shooting out to 500 yards but I don't and I can put the .223's in a human size chest at 250 yards all day long with the aperture sights that come on it.


.308 ammo is around $500 a case now (last time I bought it) and is too expensive for me to shoot much and stocking a few cases is pricey. .223 is way cheaper ammo.

No matter what advice you get you will end up buying what you want anyways, that's how it works.

If I need something long range I use a Mosin Nagant which basically falls between a .308 & a 30.06 and deadly out further than you can see,the ammo is super cheap and the rifles are super inexpensive also.

My 30-30 will kill anything under 150 yards I hit with it (including huge elk every year) and the ballistics are very very close to the 7.62x39.

Just saying to re-think what you think you need vs. what you can really get the job done with.

A Mini-14 & a Mosin Nagant 91/30 and a case of ammo for both is still cheaper than an the rifles your looking at.

m.youtube.com... I also am going to have to vote for the.308 , but from what I watched and read is that a the .308 platform in ar is pretty reliable so you dont have to spend a ton on a SCAR, even though the SCAR's sure are sexy

Im not a fan of the .223/5.56, not a hater just not a fan...well I guess the 77 grains arent bad

Also something you might find interesting is the sundevil adigs, I guess it helps reduce recoil from the gas system without sacrificing reliability im not sure if they make one yet for ar .308's

Had to post link on top, my phone refuses to do it here

a reply to: mwood

Thanks good info. You bring up a lot of valid points. But they are bolt action like the Mosin Nagant and 30-30.
Good point on the mini 14 i think most like the semi auto stuff. I do not have any real preferences at this point.

originally posted by: mwood
.308 ammo is around $500 a case now (last time I bought it) and is too expensive for me to shoot much and stocking a few cases is pricey. .223 is way cheaper ammo.

This...

I have both 5.56 and 7.62, and while the 7.62 is ballistically superior and extends your reach, it's heavier* and can really leave a mark on the wallet, even when buying in bulk. I'd say if most of your shooting opportunities are at 400 yards or less, go with the 5.56... If you can stretch the distance beyond that, go 7.62. If you are a trust funder, get both and hire someone to carry all that crap for you...

I would take this opportunity to suggest becoming a 7.62 "hipster" and get a Scout Rifle. Jeff Cooper was brilliant in it's concept, and it is cooler, more practical and above all... Ironic...

*I am speaking from a total load out perspective for field work.

a reply to: smithjustinb

Shooting a hole through the side of a car, the occupants and out the other side?

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

Ruger makes a mini 30.

a reply to: mwood

A lot of folks don't know or forgot, whatever, that the mini-14 is a combat weapon and was on the consideration list before the military went with the M-16. The mini-14 has been sold to police and military around the world in some number in a fully auto version.

If a person has a sharp eye it is like one of the major movie prop weapons or has had its share of air time. Prison tower guards are often seen with the mini-14.

a reply to: smithjustinb
Not really, 5.56 is basically the same round and it takes numerous rounds to stop a man

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

A few decades ago the Chinese SKS were 90 bucks..
Then 250 and since the last big run on semi auto rifles they are staying around 300 and up.

Really SKS is one of the best semi auto rifles. AK's are more rugged, but SKS is just a great rifle and very accurate.