Nazi's ARE in Ukraine

originally posted by: alphacenturi
a reply to: DJW001 So start a thread on it then, this thread is about Nazis in Ukraine, nice way of trying to deflect and derail though.

Of course I am going to start such a thread. I have a feeling FormOfTheLord is not going to like it. Here's a preview:

Russian prosecutors on Friday banned the 1925 semi-autobiographical book, saying its outline of racial supremacy encouraged extremist and violent behaviour.

Despite including tracts that are both anti-Jewish and anti-Russian, it has become increasingly popular among Russia's far-Right groups.

Russian extremists have attacked migrant workers from poor nations in Central Asia and the Caucasus who come to Russia and often have menial jobs and squalid living conditions. African and Asian students and Russians who do not look Slavic have also been targeted.

At least 60 people were killed and 306 injured in hate attacks in Russia last year, according to Sova, a Moscow-based non-governmental organisation that tracks racist violence.

2010[/u rl]

Indian business students snap up copies of Mein Kampf
Sales of Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler's autobiography and apologia for his anti-semitism, are soaring in India where business students regard the dictator as a management guru.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/5182107/Indian-business-students-snap-up-copies-of-Mein-Kampf.html]2009

An Arabic translation of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf is being distributed by Al-Shurouq, a Ramallah based book distributor, to East Jerusalem and territories controlled by the PA. According to Agence France Presse (Sept. 8), the book, previously banned by Israel, has been allowed by the PA and is sixth on the Palestinian best-seller list. Bisan publishers in Lebanon first published this edition in 1963 and again in 1995. The book costs about $10. The cover, presented below, shows a picture of Hitler, a swastika, and the title in both German and Arabic. The translator, Luis Al-Haj, wrote the following introduction:

"Adolf Hitler was not an ordinary man to be [forgotten] by the wheels of time... Adolf Hitler does not belong to the German people alone, he is one of the few great men who almost stopped the motion of history, altered its course, and changed the face of the world. Hence, he belongs to history

1999

originally posted by: Dimithae
I just read this and thought, why are people saying its just Russian propaganda that Nazi's are in Ukraine,when they themselves are admitting it? Here is the link to the article www.valuewalk.com...

As far as I can see it hasn't been denied that there is an extreme nationalist sentiment in Ukraine, just as there is in Russia, and just as there is in plenty of other countries around the world.

The argument here is that Russia is using this as some kind of excuse to invade another country, when the reality is far different to what Putin and his cronies like to pretend.

There is a minority of Fascists in Ukrainian government after the democratic election process, this is unfortunate, but really no more scary than the right wing parties in many parts of Europe. The UK had the BNP, and now has UKIP (and yes, it IS a racist, sexist, homophobic party as seen by the many hundreds of racist, sexist and homophobic statements made by those actually within the party!)

And of course, lets not forget the actual propaganda here, the images that have been manipulated or entirely posed for in an attempt to increase the notion of Nazis in Ukraine. Just a couple of weeks ago I saw a photo of supposed Nazis with a Swastika flag gathered and posing around a Ukrainian tank, and this photo had been used by RT more than a few times, I did a reverse image search on Google and was not at all shocked to immediately find the ORIGINAL photo without the Nazi flag, but with the flag of a Ukrainian region.

Then we get to the Russian propagandists on message boards and news sites, flooding the comments with their racist, fascist and antisemitic views. Someone should perhaps tell the Kremlin that if they create an army of trolls and propagandists to flood the internet with their BS while they claim all those in Kiev are Nazis, they should probably not talk like Nazis themselves!

However you look at this, people can see the opinions of the Russians all over the internet, and we can see for ourselves the extreme nationalism and fascism they themselves express while claiming that Ukraine is fascist. It's a little hard to take anything Russians say seriously when they are seemingly incapable of recognizing their own stupidity.

originally posted by: yeahsurexxx
yes. there are US trained Naziz in Ukraine, And in 95% of the world.

Hate to be the one to tell you this, but Russia took some of those Nazis after WW2 also, as did other nations. The US happened to snag some of the best scientists in the world after we all thrashed the fascists, but Russia was also guilty of harboring Nazis.

The difference, of course, is that the US is a welcoming and tolerant society for the most part, with considerable allegiance to Israel. Russia, on the other hand, has an extremist nationalism which rejects all outsiders, LGBT people, other races, other religions...

Having Russia calling anyone a fascists is pretty laughable. It's like Mugabe calling America Human Rights abusers.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Then we get to the Russian propagandists on message boards and news sites, flooding the comments with their racist, fascist and antisemitic views. Someone should perhaps tell the Kremlin that if they create an army of trolls and propagandists to flood the internet with their BS while they claim all those in Kiev are Nazis, they should probably not talk like Nazis themselves!

If I had a penny for every time someone applauded Putin for "standing up to the Zionist (Jewish) banksters...."

a reply to: Rocker2013

You know, I was going along with what you said,sounded reasonable and all,until you got to the last two paragraphs. Then you went out on a shaky limb.

From your statements you make it seem that Russia has MADE a bunch of trolls to get on the internet and verbally assault others with their Nazi propaganda. That is the most ludicrous thing I ever heard.I have been on the internet since it first went public,and I can tell you that there are 'trolls' all over the place from every country.No government is needed at all to have these people go off on others and spew their hate.MOST of them and by far this is not all,are young guys between the ages of 15-28 that have nothing better to do with their time but think they are 'cute' being as nasty as they can to others. They are the same dufus' that will go in a bar and not have the guts to mouth off to anyone UNTIL they get drunk. Then someone ends up flooring them for being dumb.So doing it on the internet is a 'safe' way of being hateful for their lack of self control.

No country needs to 'make' trolls.They are just there. And just because someone says "I'm from Russia or Abu Dhabi or whatever",doesn't make it so.Does Russia have trolls? Sure just like every other country does. Does Russia make them? Why would they? There is no need.They are a dime a dozen on the 'net.And the more outlandish claims they can make to piss off people ,the more trolls like it. So lets just throw that statement out the window since it has no real bearing on this.

Russia didn't 'use' the Nazi's as an excuse to invade anything. What they did say was that people of Russian descent were under threat,considering that Kiev was trying to pass a law stating that Russian could not be spoken in the country,yeah there is some merit to that.As has been pointed out,there are Nazi's in just about every country.Though for the life of me I don't know why. Personally I would see the UN ban and persecute every single one of them till they are all dead.It wasn't the Nazi's that were doing the banning of Russian language,it was the Kiev government.And yes some in that government are Nazi sympathizers,not all are.Of course they have quite a few that aren't even Ukraine citizens either now.Unless you want to call being sworn in as a real Ukrainian citizen.This was a question I poised on another post,does Ukraine not have enough citizens to run its own country? It seems not.They are grabbing people from all over to put in their government of important positions.

As far as propaganda goes,well good luck with that one,cause all countries do it. Sometimes it is just for their people having a sense of nationalist pride,but other times it is by far more serious reasons,such as covering up wrongdoing by their government,pushing a certain agenda off on the people in order to get them to agree with what they are doing,and many more. So yes Russia has their propaganda as well as all the other countries out there.

I am not saying everyone in Ukraine is a Nazi, what I am saying is there are some Nazis in Ukraine and they are spreading hate which is wrong. Its not a statement that represents something as worse than it really is its just stating what is happening with some but not all of the people in Ukraine. I am not comming from a place of hatred, I think its good to bring these things out and discuss them.

I am bringing attention to those who have labeled themselves as Nazis and are spreading a hateful ideology.
I think all racism is bad anywhere in the world period.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Dimithae

There are indeed Nazis in Ukraine:

Those guys look like American cops.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I think all racism is bad anywhere in the world period.

Then lay off the Ukrainians. You are the one spreading Russian hate speech. You are supporting an imperial power that is bringing death and suffering to the Ukrainian people. Russia is a Fascist state, and your support of it puts you on the side of the oppressors.

Good Nazis. You are crazy. Good KKK? Haters aren't good. That as bad as an Zionist terrorist. ( not Jews ) a reply to: donhuangenaro

a reply to: Dimithae

Russia didn't 'use' the Nazi's as an excuse to invade anything. What they did say was that people of Russian descent were under threat,considering that Kiev was trying to pass a law stating that Russian could not be spoken in the country,yeah there is some merit to that.

But the Rada did not pass that law, did it? It was just political theater by a right wing group. There are conservatives in the US who want to ban Spanish. Does that mean they are planning on herding Latino into death camps? Russia invented the existential threat to frighten ethnic Russians into rebellion.

As has been pointed out,there are Nazi's in just about every country.

Then why does a certain member seem obsessed with the ones in Ukraine? Why not focus on the ones in Russia who are volunteering to join the separatists in killing innocent Ukrainian civilians?

Though for the life of me I don't know why.

If I tried to explain the deviant psychology of Nazis and Fascists, a certain member would accuse me of "defending" them.

Personally I would see the UN ban and persecute every single one of them till they are all dead.

In other words, you approve of persecution and genocide. I hope you see the irony now.

It wasn't the Nazi's that were doing the banning of Russian language,it was the Kiev government.

Making one language the official state language is not at all the same thing as genocide. The Kyiv government is trying to find a way to create a Ukrainian identity that is distinct from Russia. Are the Quebequers who want to lose English as an official language Nazis?

And yes some in that government are Nazi sympathizers,not all are.

As I pointed out, less than 5% of the electorate voted for Svoboda, down from 10.4% under Yanukovych. The far right is actually losing influence. It is a necessary practice in a Parliamentary political system to give members of a potential opposition party a few appointments to prevent them from working actively against the system. Making the people most likely to cause trouble in charge of keeping the peace is not an unreasonable strategy.

Of course they have quite a few that aren't even Ukraine citizens either now.Unless you want to call being sworn in as a real Ukrainian citizen.

Yes, being sworn in makes them Ukrainian citizens, just as a naturalized American can hold office. Remember, a lot of people of Ukrainian descent are returning to the "motherland" now that it is freeing itself from Russia's centuries old oppression.

This was a question I poised on another post,does Ukraine not have enough citizens to run its own country? It seems not.They are grabbing people from all over to put in their government of important positions.

Because of a century of Russian domination, they lack qualified people to run their government. Many of the academics who might be able to serve as Finance Minister or other positions requiring technical knowledge, were trained in the Soviet Union in the same institutions that molded the thinkers who caused havoc in Russia after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

They were taught that Capitalism is about creating monopolies, ignoring public health and safety, not abiding by the rule of law, and so forth. This was the official "Marxist" line, and even intelligent people who were educated in the Soviet Union believed it. The chaos under Yeltsin was the result of this being put into practice.

For obvious reasons, the Ukrainian people would rather have officials who were educated to better understand how a healthy economy works, and real world experience running businesses in a liberal democratic society.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I think all racism is bad anywhere in the world period.

Then lay off the Ukrainians. You are the one spreading Russian hate speech. You are supporting an imperial power that is bringing death and suffering to the Ukrainian people. Russia is a Fascist state, and your support of it puts you on the side of the oppressors.

No one is even talking about Russia dude, what on earth are you talking about? The thread title is Nazis are in Ukraine, so we are talking about them, and only the Nazis not the Ukrainians who are just normal non racists, we are only talking about racists.

Its not hate speach to out an openly racist Nazi at all, nor is it saying all Ukrainians are racist, we are pointing to those who are claiming to be Nazis.

Get your posts correct and stop accusing me of hate speech, because its not hate speech its calling out people who are doing hate speach in Ukraine.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

No one is even talking about Russia dude, what on earth are you talking about?

Why aren't you talking about Nazis in Russia? I'm sorry, but your unwillingness to discuss Nazis anywhere but Ukraine really makes it look like it's Ukraine, not Nazis, that you hate.

a reply to: DJW001

It may be political theater,but if suddenly one day you found that a group of people were trying to pass a law,mind you I said TRYING to pass a law that English can't be spoken anymore,you would be sitting up and yelling NOW JUST WAIT A MINUTE. It wouldn't take much after that for things to go down hill.

I am against ANY Nazi's,I don't care what side they are on. I am not seeing any,but people keep trying to use that statement as a way of absolving Ukraine of using them.

And though I appreciate it, I don't need the psychology of Nazism explained. It is unfortunate but its not hard to fall back into as I discovered during my research into them.

The far right is losing influence also due to the government not having a lot of control over them and fearing them.Which is exactly what happened in Germany before the Nazi's took over.

This is just silly. Since when do you swear in people and put them in top positions? Good grief if you have to do that,you don't belong being a country. I am sure that somewhere in the country of Ukraine there ARE qualified people who can do those jobs. So what is the problem? They aren't corrupt. Therefore they can't be controlled and used to manipulate the system.And most of these people are not 'just coming home'. They never were citizens of the country or of decent.


For these people's lack of quality in being able to run a country,they have quite a few oligarchs don't they? If they can run large business' that well,then running the country shouldn't be much more challenging to them. Its not like they are trying to run the US.

For obvious reasons, the Ukrainian people would rather have officials who were educated to better understand how a healthy economy works, and real world experience running businesses in a liberal democratic society.

Wow,and let me ask, just who does have a country like that? Greece? Spain? The US? I don't trust our economy at all. I lost money on my investments like a lot of people,though not as bad as some. The collapse of 2008 was larger than the stock market crash of '28. And right now a lot of economists are claiming we are heading into even worse than that. I don't think this economy is very healthy,not when our government is lying about how many unemployed we have.

a reply to: Dimithae

It may be political theater,but if suddenly one day you found that a group of people were trying to pass a law,mind you I said TRYING to pass a law that English can't be spoken anymore,you would be sitting up and yelling NOW JUST WAIT A MINUTE. It wouldn't take much after that for things to go down hill.

It was a blunder that Russia has been quick to exploit. They have spun "Ukrainian language only" into "Ukrainian speakers only. Wanting only to speak French in Quebec is not a program of genocide against anglophones, but that is how Russian propaganda is presenting it.

I am against ANY Nazi's,I don't care what side they are on. I am not seeing any,but people keep trying to use that statement as a way of absolving Ukraine of using them.

For the umpteenth time, no-one is "absolving" anyone. There are self proclaimed Nazis on both sides of the conflict, yet some people are trying to create the impression that only the loyalist side has Nazis in its ranks. That is black propaganda; hate speech.

And though I appreciate it, I don't need the psychology of Nazism explained. It is unfortunate but its not hard to fall back into as I discovered during my research into them.

Obsessively posting propaganda that demonizes a particular group of people, implying they are the source of all suffering is characteristic of that paranoid style, wouldn't you say?

The far right is losing influence also due to the government not having a lot of control over them and fearing them.Which is exactly what happened in Germany before the Nazi's took over.

No. The Weimar government was ineffective and unable to fix the Germany economy due to the punitive war reparations imposed upon it by the allies. It gradually lost popular support. This, incidentally, is what Putin is trying to achieve with his proxy war in the East: demoralization of the Ukrainian people and disaffectation with the elected government

The Nazis came to power in Germany because they offered an alternative to Weimar's faltering liberal democracy. Hitler promised to fix the economy and make Germany great again. It took years to build popular support.

Putin is hoping that a demoralized Ukraine will reject liberal democracy the way the demoralized Germans did. Have no illusions: he does not care if the Nazis come to power in Kyiv, so long as they are Anti-West Nazis!

This is just silly. Since when do you swear in people and put them in top positions? Good grief if you have to do that,you don't belong being a country. I am sure that somewhere in the country of Ukraine there ARE qualified people who can do those jobs. So what is the problem? They aren't corrupt. Therefore they can't be controlled and used to manipulate the system.And most of these people are not 'just coming home'. They never were citizens of the country or of decent.

If you are trying to make a big deal over a Georgian coming on board, Ukraine and Georgia were once part of the same big, happy family. I don't think I can explain why a new nation would recruit the best and most experienced people they can better than I have. If you can't grasp it on your own, do yourself a favor and don't try to run a major corporation.

For these people's lack of quality in being able to run a country,they have quite a few oligarchs don't they? If they can run large business' that well,then running the country shouldn't be much more challenging to them. Its not like they are trying to run the US.

It is like they're trying to run the US. The oligarchs have earned their reputation for corruption. The revolt on the Maidan was as much a revolt against them as against Yanukovych. There is a new class of technocrats in Ukraine who make up the middle class; these are the ones who have been exposed to the ideals of Western liberal democracy. They have the desire to create a new Ukraine, but for the most part lack political training andd experience, not to mention financial resources.

The oligarchs who have stayed behind, rather than flee, seem to be making a sincere effort to appeal to the technocratic class. That is why they are recruiting experienced technocrats from outside.

For obvious reasons, the Ukrainian people would rather have officials who were educated to better understand how a healthy economy works, and real world experience running businesses in a liberal democratic society.


Wow,and let me ask, just who does have a country like that? Greece? Spain? The US? I don't trust our economy at all. I lost money on my investments like a lot of people,though not as bad as some. The collapse of 2008 was larger than the stock market crash of '28. And right now a lot of economists are claiming we are heading into even worse than that. I don't think this economy is very healthy,not when our government is lying about how many unemployed we have.

They are not recruiting from Greece or Spain, are they?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord



Incidentally, did you bother to look into who posted the latest YouTube video you have propagated? Alex J joined just about the time the Yanukovych regime collapsed. His first post was "Nulandistan: Nine reasons why the US is behind the coup in Ukraine." Russian government produced propaganda. All of his posts have been anti-Ukraine propaganda. He also "favorited" a speech or two by Putin. No cute cat videos, no Abba reunion tour videos... just Russian state propaganda. Let me ask you directly: Do you really think Alex J is a real person?

originally posted by: yeahsurexxx
yes. there are US trained Naziz in Ukraine, And in 95% of the world.

what?

originally posted by: Dimithae
From your statements you make it seem that Russia has MADE a bunch of trolls to get on the internet and verbally assault others with their Nazi propaganda.

Go and open a forum, use any freely available service, and within a month you will see thousands of new members attempting to sign up, all with email addresses ending in .ru, katkit.in, inlike.in, bocps.biz...

These are all bots originating from Russia and Ukraine. One look at my server logs shows this, and a simple check of the IP shows it too. They are all attempting to create accounts, which can then be monitored and the account accessed when anything related to Ukraine or Russia is mentioned.

I have operated forums for more then five years, and I have never seen this level of Russian bot activity in all my time in the business. This is real and genuine, and anyone who operates a forum or comment page knows about it.

There is a truly massive Internet propaganda campaign being waged by the Kremlin, and although not many are reporting on it, those who operate news sites, political forums, or even just random forums about all kinds of things, knows about it.

Lets not be silly, we know that propaganda comes from both sides, and the audience here at ATS is always quick to point the finger and claim it when they see something that doesn't suit their world view. Lets not pretend that this is now different and everyone but Russia uses propaganda. Suggesting this just makes those who claim it look even more like really bad propagandists.

a reply to: Rocker2013

To clarify: I have been locking horns with Victor and Nikolai for years. We may have our disagreements, but I do not think that they or some of the other members here are bots, disinfo agents or shills. They are sincere in their completely, stubbornly wrong opinions across a number of forums here. On the other hand, its hard not to notice that there are suddenly people appearing here since last year who single mindedly post links to RT, Sputnik, zerohedge.com and other known Russian state propaganda outlets. They also link to YouTube videos allegedly posted by private citizens who are focused entirely on Ukraine, videos so amateurish that they can "only" be made by an amateur. (See above!)

It is my belief that ATS has been spared the brunt of a full on FSB cyber campaign because, unlike most conspiracy sites, we have a very strong bench when it comes to skeptics. I would not be surprised if Russian cyber-agents approached the more sympathetic members by email and tried to coax them to a more manipulation friendly site. This post will self-destruct in two hours.

a reply to: Rocker2013

I have never suggested that any country does not use propaganda. In fact in other posts I have repeatedly pointed out that all countries do. This is neither here nor there,Russia may have upped their game of propaganda,but so has the US. And I have no intention of being 'caught out' by waving my flag like a good little lost in the dark American. We don't even know the real truth of our own history and are shocked when others point it out to us. Therefore we walk around thinking everything is peaches and cream until something bad happens. What woke me up was when I was in college and the Iran hostage crisis hit. For the life of me I had no idea why anyone would want to take our people hostage,and why the Iranians hated us so.

After much digging and investigating I found out why. But while doing that I also found out about a lot of nefarious things our country has done in the past. That was a very hard wake up call to swallow. I realized that basically nothing I had been taught was true when it came to our government. Now I don't just jump on the 'American is the greatest country in the world' band wagon. I start in looking for what we were doing before everything fell apart,to see what our part if any was in it.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I think all racism is bad anywhere in the world period.

Then lay off the Ukrainians. You are the one spreading Russian hate speech. You are supporting an imperial power that is bringing death and suffering to the Ukrainian people. Russia is a Fascist state, and your support of it puts you on the side of the oppressors.

BS,your the one supporting racist far right ferret faced thugs given guns and uniforms by the Ukraine government and let loose in the east of the country to do as they like

The Ukraine government aided by the money grabbing parasites in the west are attacking the east of Ukraine!

fatherland party that far right racist political group in Ukraine who actualy have members sitting in the Ukrainian cabinet even started this blood bath by killing police and maidan alike