No GOD? No Afterlife? No Point to Life.

a reply to: ArnoldNonymous

It's in our nature to be communal. Without it we would not have survived as a species. We have learned to be communal in order to provide protection and to sustain food stores. With this comes an inherit sense of good/bad. If it benefits the group, then it is good. If not, then bad. Animals do it to this day. If a member of the pack or herd do something to jeopardize the rest, they are cut and sent out on their own. We are not different. just because we can reason does not mean we are less subject to the laws of nature and survival.

originally posted by: ArnoldNonymous
I want to specifically ask if they believe there is nothing more to this life than just existing here for a short period, why is it so important to follow laws and rules set up by our own species?

So the one life we have is as happy and productive as possible, it would be quite difficult without a few rules...

If we are simply animals, why should we follow rules set by other people we do not care about?

Who said we don't care about other people? is this you saying you wouldn't care about other people without the promise of eternal life? if so that's pretty disgusting imho.

If this were my thought process I would be doing everything I could to take advantage of others. It doesn't matter whether I am considered a good person or not. What is "good" for that matter anyways?

I'm very very glad for everyone around you that you believe in a god...

I am an atheist.

The tribal divisions of humanity each with their own regional god or multiple gods is very good evidence that there is no god out there. I would expect a real god to make its presence known so as not to cause this division among its creations. Violence and even wars are ongoing today over these tribal differences in gods.

Life itself is constantly affirming there is no god as well. Whether its natural disasters or something else. It appears that humanity's gods have little interest in protecting them.

I hold no beliefs in organized religion or even some vague agnostic beliefs. There just is no invisible man, woman, or ambiguous force watching over us.

I don't believe there is a point to existing. We exist just because we exist. It was either something or nothing that was going to happen. Something happened. That doesn't mean there was a god or thought put into it.

I continue to live because my death will in all likelihood be a long permanent nothingness. No need to hasten that inevitability.

I do read reports of near death experiences and reincarnation stories but alas most are very anecdotal. So I cannot be said to be ignorant of what material is out there now.

I'm human and therefore fallible. I could be quite mistaken in my current beliefs on this subject. I won't claim to be zealously resolute like some religious types are. If I see a ghost or have an NDE or something I could potentially change my mind on matters of spirituality.

originally posted by: ArnoldNonymous
This is a great OP. I am curious to know and have read through quite a few replies so far.

I want to specifically ask if they believe there is nothing more to this life than just existing here for a short period, why is it so important to follow laws and rules set up by our own species?
If we are simply animals, why should we follow rules set by other people we do not care about?

If this were my thought process I would be doing everything I could to take advantage of others. It doesn't matter whether I am considered a good person or not. What is "good" for that matter anyways?

You don't need the threat of eternal damnation and torture to not harm others. Its called empathy. We can think, place ourselves in someone else's shoes, and recognize we would not want to do to anyone that we wouldn't do to ourselves. You don't need an invisible man in the sky or in some old book to tell you that. Unless you do. In which case you should keep believing so as not to harm others.

a reply to: Metallicus

If I may butcher a perspective Dennis Prager has made on faith, if Metallicus is wrong about the past lives/reincarnation thing, it means nothing. If Metallicus is right, it means everything.

I am thoroughly enjoying Metallicus' post and comments on past lives and consciousness. I agree with what you are saying most of the time, but I lack the clarity you seem to have. I feel like I am on the verge of truly understanding my consciousness better, and would appreciate some of your guidance to get this thread back to something positive and productive.

How did you become "aware" of your lives and their journeys? What trigger or event or moment did you "get it?"

What trends do you seem to be learning or needing to learn throughout this process? You said love more, be more humble, but are there other more significant things that we can be or do?

Your comments make a lot of sense to me. I feel like I have been receiving signs or indicators, though I am missing the intended point. I am taking it as "this is meant to be happening" for now until I understand better. I appreciate any positive and productive guidance or help you or others can provide me in connecting with and raising my consciousness.

Many thanks!

I absolutely think that atheists can lead rich, full, meaningful lives. In fact, their lives are probably made more rich by the absence of belief in God. I find a lot to admire in atheists, but I am simply not one of them. I have had intense, for lack of a better word, "spiritual" and synchronistic experiences my entire life, and it's simply part of my nature to see the world from that framework. I have beliefs similar to Metallicus, although I don't have a lot of surety about them. But it just seems to me that life is so incredibly painful and heavy, and there's so much we need to learn in order to evolve, that there is no way one lifetime is enough.

I hate having to describe my beliefs because they are hard to articulate, but I just have this sense of continuity, of expansion...that we are supposed to be expanding into Love energy, that we are part of something bigger than our physical bodies and our thoughts. I don't know what that "something bigger" is--for me, it's not a god-like entity, but an expansive energy; I guess I would describe it as love. If I didn't think there was something beyond my body and this earth alone, honestly, I would kill myself. A lot of people would describe that as mental weakness. Fair enough. But I have a pervasive sense that there is a purpose and a meaning to our existence; that we are not just meat; we are made of far more formidable stuff.

When I ask "Why?" I turned to the only source we know of for our origins, the science of biology.

Human intellect, IMO, is something akin to the evolution of snake venom. I'm equating the two because both go far beyond their need for survival of the individual. Snake venom in some species evolved to the point that it can kill large animals when it only needs to kill much smaller prey. Likewise for humanity we don't need the large brains we have for survival. Evolution goes on a path and just keeps on going without stopping at some predetermined goal because there is no goal.

The only reason we even wonder about life's purpose is because of this runaway evolution of our grey matter. Its not a good answer, but its the only answer I can think of. We created a question to which there never was an answer.

originally posted by: Metallicus

I see religion as an attempt by the intellectually lazy to have someone else give them the answers. Religion serves a purpose and isn't evil per se, but is a necessary step for some. I've always felt like God and I don't need a middleman.

Let me ask you a question.

Where did your concept of "God" come from?

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: vethumanbeing

[I]veteranhumanbeing[/I]
I was talking to Beaul today and I asked IT this question, "is it better *harder won fight* to gain the soul of an atheist, a non-believer or a true believer in God faith". It answered this way:

1. The non-believer is prime as it has no idea it has a soul so I can take it without its even knowing I've done so.

2. The believer is trumped up triple as it has doubts about its soul at times; and during those I can convince is worthless (and through some maneuvering/promises of riches wealth, anything desired sells it to me).

3. The atheist is the easiest, as I can convince hold the argument they had a worthless soul (wasted as in they not in recognision) and without telling, was mine from the beginning.

[I]Aphorism[/I]I suppose if imagining promises of reward in the afterlife doesn't work out, one can imagine something is going to steal their soul.

There are no promises in the afterlife. Those consequences are left to your actions on earth as per your contract at "incarnation"; did you fulfill your Karmic goals, did you forget why you reincarnated to pay past debts or right some wrongs (the whole system is flawed BTW as its a hamster wheel). You would have to be aware of an afterlife to consider or reconsider your purpose here. Soul stealing doesn't happen in the higher dimensions because the entity that can occasion it IS NOT ALLOWED sanctuary there. Thank you for your reply Aphorism.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing

[I]VHB[/I]No one has any business believing Metallicus's claim? I BELIEVE IT.

[I]Prszbo369[/I]Then you'll believe anything.

I have no 'dogmatic system' in place to 'believe' or otherwise; in regards to Metallicus, I resonate with its own known truth which is why I responded to this thread (what's your excuse).

[I]VHB[/I] You forgot all about the soul/spirit that NEVER DIES and is immortal/eternal.

[I]Prezbo369[/I]Yurp totally forgot about that....wait what?

Wait; WHAT WHAT was forgotten ?

[I]VHB[/I]Read some two posts up as you might fit right into one of Beaul's three descriptions of "the misplaced or lost souls of the ignorant".

[I]Prezbo369[/I]Beaul? as in Beelzebub? Old Nick? Lord of Flies?
He lies to gullible Christians all the time, why would you believe anything THE DEVIL tells you?.....

No need to drag Beelzebub, Santa Clause or a gifted author speaking to the potential problems arising of English primer school privileged children on a deserted island into the fray (where is the SS MINNOW when needed, schoolboys should have crashed on Gilligans Island where there was a camera crew and a bunch of actors). WHO lies to gullible Christians (their Pope, Pastor, Rector, Chaplan)? I never proclaimed myself to be of that Dogmatic faith nor am I could be called such. I'm more esoteric. I hold no belief system I know my truth just as you and everyone else does. You underestimate what you call 'the devil'; it calls itself something entirely different; Chaos in form to promote either a negative or positive effect; its just an energy form not a BEING to fear at all; unless you manifest it out of your own fear, (just a means or a necessity for change is all).

Let's take a look at 'good'.

Who defines what is good and bad. Some say humans. But look at our history... What we deem to be good and evil has constantly changed. In the UK 50 or so years ago homosexuality was outlawed and deemed evil... Now its morally accepted by the state and many people. Many other examples too... What humans determine as moral is constantly changing. Only the one who created us can tell us what is good for us and what is bad for us.... This is why books and prophets were sent to teach us what it truly means to be human...

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I do believe that the body can heal itself, and that men may be capable of other miraculous things. That doesn't prove any Biblical dogmas though. If believing Jonah survived inside a living whale's stomach for a few days, is the cost of enlightenment, no thank you. These are the "scientists" I meant by "sometimes sad". Literal interpretations of the Bible.

I think I might be missing your point though?

Not at all missing any point. The body can heal itself, it just needs you as its leader "CEO" to tell it hey! I'm in charge here, you do have a Boss; so no more shenanigans in cell mutations etc. The bible was written (old 3000 years ago) as an id to the egocentric mind, (stop killing each other), the new 1900 years ago was to say you have a Master Jesus walked the earth as a human. We've had several others since that time period, Buddha, Ghandi, Mohammed, Einstein, Abraham Lincoln, John Stuart Mill, Thomas Moore, Shakespeare that were just trying to reason with the human. Enlightenment comes at a high cost because it is an individual personal endeavor; not a group camp thing. A literal King James the First bible would read as Hitlers Mein Kampf in this day and age. The bible should be taken as a sacred permanent wisdom, beautiful poetry, metaphorical in interpretation.

originally posted by: Prezbo369
originally posted by: [post=18247039] Arnoldnonimous

[I]Prezbo369[/I]I'm very very glad for everyone around you that you believe in a god...

I am not around him and I don't believe in a "God". I know that there is a field energy form out there that is binary in nature (an information gathering system) and in its Bios created this thing you live within; would never give it a name as it is an "absolutum" or an Absolute Unbounded Oneness that cannot be adequately described as a God because it is not a physical being. I am very very very glad as well that believers in 'something higher' than themselves exist. You, all by yourself manifested into this frequency; how did you manage it?

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
I have no 'dogmatic system' in place to 'believe' or otherwise; in regards to Metallicus, I resonate with its own known truth which is why I responded to this thread (what's your excuse).

It's own known truth? Convincing/deluding oneself of something doesn't make it true.....no matter how much you wished it was.

(the thread title brought me here)

Wait; WHAT WHAT was forgotten ?

How could I have forgotten your own particular and imagined thoughts on the concept and properties of a soul.....

No need to drag Beelzebub, Santa Clause or a gifted author speaking to the potential problems arising of....

They're all names for your devil character......if you didn't already know...

WHO lies to gullible Christians (their Pope, Pastor, Rector, Chaplan)? I never proclaimed myself to be of that Dogmatic faith nor am I could be called such. I'm more esoteric. I hold no belief system I know my truth just as you and everyone else does.

You hold supernatural beliefs just like any other theist.

You underestimate what you call 'the devil'; it calls itself something entirely different; Chaos in form to promote either a negative or positive effect; its just an energy form not a BEING to fear at all; unless you manifest it out of your own fear, (just a means or a necessity for change is all).

You can call it whatever you want it's your character after all...

I am not around him and I don't believe in a "God". I know that there is a field energy form out there that is binary in nature (an information gathering system) and in its Bios created this thing you live within; would never give it a name as it is an "absolutum" or an Absolute Unbounded Oneness that cannot be adequately described as a God because it is not a physical being.

No physical form? just like Allah, the biblical god and Yahweh then? some form of...space ghost?

I am very very very glad as well that believers in 'something higher' than themselves exist.

For the same reasons I do? so they don't go around stealing raping and murdering? or just so you have some form of validation from other believers?

You, all by yourself manifested into this frequency; how did you manage it?

I used to work on the wireless.

originally posted by: Frith
When I ask "Why?" I turned to the only source we know of for our origins, the science of biology.


Human intellect, IMO, is something akin to the evolution of snake venom. I'm equating the two because both go far beyond their need for survival of the individual. Snake venom in some species evolved to the point that it can kill large animals when it only needs to kill much smaller prey. Likewise for humanity we don't need the large brains we have for survival. Evolution goes on a path and just keeps on going without stopping at some predetermined goal because there is no goal.


The only reason we even wonder about life's purpose is because of this runaway evolution of our grey matter. Its not a good answer, but its the only answer I can think of. We created a question to which there never was an answer.

1) Snakes have evolved this venom to ensure there victim does not escape while in water yet a sub species can then evolve to be land only and the venom they have appears overkill.

2) Life's purpose is either A) direct experience in all it's possible forms over many life times, some as the perpetrator others as the victim. or B) There is no purpose except that which we individually make or follow C) To see what we do when we have an experience where there is no guide, no one telling us what to do, or how to be, or how to live.


Isn't this the cause to why most children leave their parents place, maybe we are all like that, maybe we have all said I need some space to make my own decisions, to make my own mistakes, so your family say goodbye, wish you well and hope you enjoy being reborn back onto Earth...

Isn't the purpose of life just to live and be free from the confounding restrictions that wish to be placed upon us? Aren't we all suppose to be happy and fulfilled, no matter our race, religion or any other beliefs? CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?! Nope...unfortunately.

originally posted by: imthegoat
Isn't the purpose of life just to live and be free from the confounding restrictions that wish to be placed upon us? Aren't we all suppose to be happy and fulfilled, no matter our race, religion or any other beliefs? CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?! Nope...unfortunately.

Yes and what happens when you are the cause of their confounding restrictions, this why wars start...

I don't know if there is an "afterlife". In my belief, there is a "continual life", meaning your existence goes on as some other kind of energy. (Sort of like what Keanu Reeves said in "The day the earth stood still). But I can almost guarantee you that there is no "Biblical" God, or if there is, no one sincerely believes in him. If say Mitt Romney truly believed, do you really think he would have broken up so many companies, ended so many jobs just to earn himself, and only his self money? Or all the scripture quoting, bible thumping ATSers who complain about taxes and having to support the less fortunate? All the racist, intolerant remarks about our president that have no relevance outside of hatred, that includes Bush and other past presidents as well.

NO ONE TRULY BELIEVES. NOT Islam, Judaism, Christian, Buddhism, or ANY of the major or even minor Religions. If 1/10 of them really did, we would be living in a Utopia, because no one would care that I have this and you don't. We would all work together to make life great for ALL

a reply to: Prezbo369
You used to work on the wireless or morse code ticky tack; what does that mean? You are nearing 90 years of age.
A "space Ghost God" would be a good approximation of "non body Zombie God" (sort of correct) minus the intelligent binary code factor.
A known truth (as one observes it) is NOT A DELUSION.
Devil characters throughout history are not FICTIONAL writings; they exist for a reason and my relationship to them is none of your business.
I am not a 'supernatural belief system' person; I hold no beliefs, I am a more of the metaphysical (clay=energy=life force/radiation AS THE ANIMATER OF ALL LIFE FORM) type character.
Whomever warped the idea of "Space God" into a manifested creature, Allah, Yahweh, Moses etc. is decidedly evil or very cagey/smart in the sense that chaos/yin/yang must prevail to create TENSION to cause CHANGE in the overrated blow hardy booring dullards existing at times past in history; noted as example: (THOSE ROMANS HAVE GOT TO GO).
You really cant think others feel or think the same as I? That is not possible EVER; so no validation there.
Thank you for responding Prezbo, I think you may be onto something.