Russia pulls plug on 'last independent TV show'

a reply to: Xcathdra

This is my point with Russian media... We can challenge ours without being killed. If we are killed others can challenge it still.

Can you say the same for Russian media and its people?

100% YES.

Give me evidence that people were killed for bringing up some anti-Putin news in Russia. Untill then, stop spreading false information.

originally posted by: Nikola014
Stone cold hard killer? And then calling him brilliant in the same sentence...

Would you prefer diabolical mastermind or Dr. Evil?

originally posted by: Nikola014
Care to present some evidence to back up those claims? Also, he has a plan that's bad for everyone? Want to share what that plan might be with the rest of us?

He made the rank of Colonel in the KGB at the height of the cold war. Do we really need to have this discussion? How about some Sushi laced with Polonium?

His plans are only bad to those they are against.. Like Ukraine for instance.

Putin has already spelled out his plan, if you watched Russian media. He claims the former Soviet Union collapse was illegal. He stated the countries that gained independence from that collapse have illegal borders. He has invaded Ukraine and occupied / annexed Crimea. He is attempting to create an alternative to the current system in place with something called BRICS. What you guys fail to understand about BRICS can be see in the manner he treats Belarus and Kazakhstan / Chechnya.

For further evidence look at his reaction to 2 of those countries who did not agree with his invasion of Ukraine or his attempt to break up the territorial integrity.

originally posted by: Nikola014
Everyone's guilty till proven wrong?

Nope - However when you get caught lying as much as Putin has in the last 3 months, which puts US Presidents to shame might I add, you develop the mindset of proof of innocence before buying the farm, so to speak. An argument you and others who dislike the west have made time and again.

It works in both directions.

originally posted by: Nikola014
I seriously see why ATS lack serious debates, when we have people saying stuff like this and getting away with it like nothing ever happened.

The above mentality is exactly what Russia represents. People either tow the party line or they should not speak. The number of people who have complained about my participation in threads where they dont want me adding information that undermines their argument is extensive. People have tried to get me banned for participating in a thread where there are only a few of us who are lone dissenters of the topic.

The mentality you are portraying, and certainly correct me if I am wrong, is that of "People can speak so long as it agrees with what you say. If It does not then you do what you can to silence them, even if it means making irrelevant posts in order to bury the facts under a few pages of circular argument.

Something the Kremlin has mastered.

With that said, and if you dont think my perception of you is correct, then by all means please tell us what you think.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: Xcathdra

This is my point with Russian media... We can challenge ours without being killed. If we are killed others can challenge it still.

Can you say the same for Russian media and its people?

100% YES.

Give me evidence that people were killed for bringing up some anti-Putin news in Russia. Untill then, stop spreading false information.

Alexander Litvinenko

Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko (Russian: Алекса́ндр Ва́льтерович Литвине́нко; IPA: [ɐlʲɪˈksandr ˈvaltərəvʲɪt͡ɕ lʲɪtvʲɪˈnʲenkə]; 30 August 1962[2][3] (4 December 1962 by father's account[4] – 23 November 2006) was a fugitive officer of the Russian FSB secret service who specialised in tackling organised crime.[1][5] In November 1998, Litvinenko and several other FSB officers publicly accused their superiors of ordering the assassination of the Russian tycoon and oligarch Boris Berezovsky. Litvinenko was arrested the following March on charges of exceeding the authority of his position. He was acquitted in November 1999 but re-arrested before the charges were again dismissed in 2000. He fled with his family to London and was granted asylum in the United Kingdom, where he worked as a journalist, writer and consultant for the British intelligence services.

During his time in London, Litvinenko wrote two books, Blowing Up Russia: Terror from Within and Lubyanka Criminal Group, wherein he accused the Russian secret services of staging the Russian apartment bombings and other terrorism acts in an effort to bring Vladimir Putin to power. He also accused Putin of ordering the murder in October 2006 of the Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya.

On 1 November 2006, Litvinenko suddenly fell ill and was hospitalised in what was established as a case of poisoning by radioactive polonium-210 which resulted in his death on 23 November. The events leading up to this are a matter of controversy, spawning numerous theories relating to his poisoning and death. A British murder investigation pointed to Andrey Lugovoy, a member of Russia's Federal Protective Service, as the prime suspect. The United Kingdom requested the extradition of Lugovoy, but Russia refused, leading to the cooling of relations between Russia and the United Kingdom. Britain demanded that Lugovoy be extradited, which is against the Constitution of Russia, which directly prohibits[6] extradition of Russian citizens without handing Russia any evidence related to the case. Russia denied the extradition. Lugovoy passed a lie detector test in Russia, denying the accusations.[7]

After Litvinenko's death, his widow, Marina, pursued a vigorous campaign on behalf of her husband through the Litvinenko Justice Foundation. In October 2011, she won the right for an inquest into her husband's death to be conducted by a coroner in London; however the inquest has been repeatedly set back by issues relating to examinable evidence.[8]

* - Duma Deputy Galina Starovoitova
* - 1999 Putin orders bombing campaign in Chechnya (military and non military targets were not a concern).
* - Igor Domnikov
* - Sergey Novikov
* - Iskandar Khatloni
* - Sergey Ivanov
* - Adam Tepsurgayev
* - Sergei Yushenkov
* - Putin’s KGB had planted the Pechatniki and Kashirskoye apartment bombs to whip up support for the Putin’s war in Chechnya after the formal legislative investigation turned out to be impossible.
* - Yuri Shchekochikhin
* - Mikhail Trepashkin
* - MH17


To name just a few people who were murdered or imprisoned in secret by putin. The list rangers from 1999 to 2003. Maybe you should know the answer to your question before you demand people answer it. It will avoid more instances of you making a claim that results in even more damning evidence against the case your trying to make.

Jeezus.


. . . Another Russophobe thread by none other than our very own - - Xcathedra.


Let me see:

Why the U.S. government is 'trolling' jihadists on social media

Social Media and the Destabilization of Cuba: USAID’s Secret “Cuban Twitter” Intended to Stir Unrest

CIA Admits Spying On Senate Computers

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media

Military's 'sock puppet' software creates fake online identities to spread pro-American propaganda

You see:

* Putin has been part of nato

* Putin has been part of G8

* Putin knows the game & 'opponents' on a PERSONAL level


Everything was good leading up to Syria. When Putin & Assad brought damn near Peace to Syria -- but. . .

. . . then there was a disagreement where Putin didn't agree w/ arming the "Organ Eating" syrian rebels.






Oh, then you have this gem from Sen. John Mccain: " John McCain The Arab Spring is Coming to Russia & China"



Now, tell me that Russia doesn't have anything to be concerned about when dealing w/ U.S. & EU tactics?

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Did you have any comments on the thread title? I looked over your post twice and didnt see anything relevant to it.

As for the threads I make.. If you dont care for them you are free to ignore them. I guess its a good thing I dont live in Russia eh.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

So...


According to your logic, any thread being critical of the US/West should just be considered Ameriphobia as well.


*I'm critical of my own Government why wouldn't I be just as critical of others?

a reply to: Nikola014

A good place to start for his "plans" is his 2000 inauguration speech

I consider it my sacred duty to unite the people of Russia and to gather citizens around the clearly-defined tasks and aims and to remember, every minute of every day, that we are one nation and we are one people. We have one common destiny

or his speech he made when made PM in 1999

Honestly, you talk to us like we're idiots and haven't been keeping tabs on things, or haven't done our own leg work, but Putin has pretty much laid out his plans for the past decade.

a reply to: Xcathdra
lol both east and west have the msm as their propaganda machine so what is your point? the only difference is that one has companies/individuals running the MSM and the other you got a state controlled one. Both give out propaganda. If you think that by having private run media is any better than state controlled then you are the one being fooled. the west is run by a select few rich people who just happen to have as friends the people who own the western media. Now if you think that they are not pushing their agendas through the media then the biggest example I can prove to show this is how the western media treats whistleblowers. nuff said

originally posted by: Cantbebothered
nuff said

Not even close...

If you wish to discuss S media bias feel free to start your own thread. This thread is discussing Russian media being all state owned and controlled.

a reply to: Nikola014

You know, killing of Russian dissidents and reporters has been well reported for many years - if you haven't heard of it, then that is your failure. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going "La La La" doesn't make things any less true.

I see Xcathdra has already provided a list of some of those who have had very untimely ends as a result of digging where they shouldn't, or just outright opposing the Kremlin.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Since I have to spell out another topic to you:


U.S. & EU uses social media & media to 'Destabilize' govts for their own gain.


. . . Now thats cleared up -- its a very tactical & hard choice to make in order to keep the survival of one's country.




And be careful. The U.S. govt is FAST approaching these same "talking points" that you're bringing up. Next week, the U.S. may clamp down on its own media. . . don't be so naive.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: Nikola014

A good place to start for his "plans" is his 2000 inauguration speech

I consider it my sacred duty to unite the people of Russia and to gather citizens around the clearly-defined tasks and aims and to remember, every minute of every day, that we are one nation and we are one people. We have one common destiny

or his speech he made when made PM in 1999

Honestly, you talk to us like we're idiots and haven't been keeping tabs on things, or haven't done our own leg work, but Putin has pretty much laid out his plans for the past decade.

Interesting... It reminds me of another speech that was closely similar.. That speech ended with the phrase "until we secure the final victory" though.

a reply to: Xcathdra

yes and i am saying so damn what. when it comes to propaganda there is no difference between private run media or state controlled. So again what is your point that the Russian media is state controlled?

a reply to: Xcathdra

He made the rank of Colonel in the KGB at the height of the cold war. Do we really need to have this discussion? How about some Sushi laced with Polonium?

Yes we do.
You can't say someone is a killer without presenting any proof. Just because he made some rank during cold war, does it mean he killed people? And if so, I want to see names of those who he had killed. You can't just toss something like this into a thread, and act like nothing happened. Saying someone is a killer is a serious statement that needs to be back up with official documents. Not who KGB killed. But Putin himself.

Putin has already spelled out his plan, if you watched Russian media. He claims the former Soviet Union collapse was illegal. He stated the countries that gained independence from that collapse have illegal borders. He has invaded Ukraine and occupied / annexed Crimea. He is attempting to create an alternative to the current system in place with something called BRICS. What you guys fail to understand about BRICS can be see in the manner he treats Belarus and Kazakhstan / Chechnya.

Are you saying he's trying to rebuilt Soviet Union?
I don't see anything bad in trying to create a alternative to west and their banks ruling system. BRICS seems like a fresh surprise, and I can't wait to see more of them.

The above mentality is exactly what Russia represents. People either tow the party line or they should not speak. The number of people who have complained about my participation in threads where they dont want me adding information that undermines their argument is extensive. People have tried to get me banned for participating in a thread where there are only a few of us who are lone dissenters of the topic.

I don't know why did you quote this post, when it had nothing to do with you. It was a response to another member who called Putin a killer.

And i enjoy discussing with you, because unlikely many others, you at least present some proof and what you saying makes sense.

My mentality is that i hate double standards. I try so hard to make people see that they have them, but it's impossible because they have strong beliefs based on fed lies from western media.

Thanks for the list of names. I will dig up into it.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

That's pretty much the same tactic other groups use when faced with criticism in the hope of stifling it under a blanket of "political correctness".

Be it accusations of antisemitism, racism, sexism, bigotry or russophobia, it's all the same. Instead of debating the topic, you attack the poster. Poor form.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

So if I understand your post your conceding to the point I made and justified it with how the US and EU use social media in other countries?

So Russia does not use social media in other countries to destabilize them? So constantly referring to Ukraine government as a NEO Nazi Junta filled with skinheads who kill babies is what, a jaunty sarcastic exchange meant to invoke humor into a situation Russia created?

Try your logic on the 300 people who died in MH17.

originally posted by: SurrenderingAmerica

And be careful. The U.S. govt is FAST approaching these same "talking points" that you're bringing up. Next week, the U.S. may clamp down on its own media. . . don't be so naive.

That's EXACTLY why it should be discussed and debated freely.

What may happen in the US someday has apparently already happened in Russia.

No outrage?

originally posted by: Cantbebothered
a reply to: Xcathdra

yes and i am saying so damn what. when it comes to propaganda there is no difference between private run media or state controlled. So again what is your point that the Russian media is state controlled?

LOL -

there is a huge difference.. As an example if one media outlet in the US reports on something, and another media outlets discovers info debunking it, its reported.

In Russia you dont have the other media outlet to debunk it. Media in Russia are nothing more than court stenographers after the latest action by Putin.

a reply to: stumason

It's you again. I'm still waiting for your pm. Can't wait to see the revolutions that Russia and Soviet Union started in the past...

So, as a proof, you give me his speech from 14 and 15 years ago? Do you have any idea how many things can change during that period? In politics especially.

a reply to: Xcathdra

erm didnt an america navy ship down an iranian passenger airliner and Bush refused to say sorry???????