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Ukraine Coalition Government Collapses as 2 Parties Quit

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posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: flibblebee

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
The Ukraine being what it is ,dos not lend to the western type very well .Thinking back to some comments made by Webster Tarpley saying something to the effect that what Russia had suggested was a group of states within the Ukraine would be the best option .This seems to have been what was there to a certain degree as the Crimea was fully autonomous and had their own Govt. and was well understood . The other regions were a type of the same but shared more with the Govt in Kiev . I guess it's like a big family that gets along just fine when they come together for a visit but could never live in the same household again . a reply to: rickymouse



This would be a better think for Ukraine I think. If it broke up into a few states, then people would have a choice. Right now the New government is trying to force everyone to do what they want, that is not right. I do like the country I live in but would not force our system on other countries. I think the people of Ukraine are going to be exploited by this government, their dreams of a better society will never materialize. Just because people think differently does not mean one is right or wrong. You shouldn't force change on people, this is not the middle ages anymore.


So, Putin was right.

Just wanted to be sure that's what we are concluding, Putin's sugestion (after all he knows the regional politics better than all of us on here) was the best one after all.


.


I'm not sure exactly what Putin suggested so it is hard to say if I completely agree. Something should be worked out between the Ukrainian people. Not the people who seized control of the country.




posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: flibblebee

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
The Ukraine being what it is ,dos not lend to the western type very well .Thinking back to some comments made by Webster Tarpley saying something to the effect that what Russia had suggested was a group of states within the Ukraine would be the best option .This seems to have been what was there to a certain degree as the Crimea was fully autonomous and had their own Govt. and was well understood . The other regions were a type of the same but shared more with the Govt in Kiev . I guess it's like a big family that gets along just fine when they come together for a visit but could never live in the same household again . a reply to: rickymouse



This would be a better think for Ukraine I think. If it broke up into a few states, then people would have a choice. Right now the New government is trying to force everyone to do what they want, that is not right. I do like the country I live in but would not force our system on other countries. I think the people of Ukraine are going to be exploited by this government, their dreams of a better society will never materialize. Just because people think differently does not mean one is right or wrong. You shouldn't force change on people, this is not the middle ages anymore.


So, Putin was right.

Just wanted to be sure that's what we are concluding, Putin's sugestion (after all he knows the regional politics better than all of us on here) was the best one after all.


.


I'm not sure exactly what Putin suggested so it is hard to say if I completely agree. Something should be worked out between the Ukrainian people. Not the people who seized control of the country.


He proposed a federalisation of Ukraine as part of the peace agreements.


edit on 24-7-2014 by flibblebee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: angelchemuel

The fascists and the left wing parties are just upset because even after all there hard work there supporters pulled in in Kiev Protests that they arent part of the engorgement.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: Expat888
the people of ukraine will suffer more because fools and idiots fight for power with no regard for the well being of the people ..


Those idiots whom were protesting are nothing more then clowns the same clowns whom are commenting very stupid things on CNN.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: thesaneone

No money, no gas, no army...



The 777 failed to fell in the preplanned location, the junta started attacks immediately after the "accident", but today the losses higher than ever. It seems they lost the "ATO" definitely...


Here's what Ukraine and all the current political parties should do in order for Ukraine to restore her honor as a country and a chrsitan and not facist state which America wants her to be.

1.Ukraine should pay up all the gas money that it owns to Russia.
2. Unban Russian language, Unban the party of regions.

3.Throw away the European Union flags.

4. Make an apologize televised address to Russia and to the citizens in East Ukraine.

5.Kick out all NGO organizations and there employers make them run for there billion dollars of tax payers money.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Yeah because fights never break out in the Russian Duma -





As for the topic why is this a bad thing? What it does is demonstrate that the Constitution is still in use and working as it should.

Or would people prefer the opposition parties storm the Ukraine parliament and seize people as the Russian goon squad did in Crimea / South / East Ukraine?



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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I am sure there are people on both sides that want an increasing confrontation between right and left, Russian and non-Russian etc. If Pravy Sector is out, I'd say good riddance.
It was a mistake to ban Russian language and other minority languages. E. g. there are many Hungarians in the Carpathian region that sympathized with Maidan but it came as a shock to them that Hungarian is banned. (Not that they could actually enforce this.)

As far as the Russian population goes, this merely fortified their existing bad stereotypes.

All the same, to those people who say here that the UAS (Ukrainian State) is merely a Western puppet and the line of protests leading to a entire government change was merely some Western psyop, I'd say you either simply registered to back up Russian State propaganda on ATS or you do not know Eastern Euroepan reality well enough. It's far more complex than that. There's the important element of total disillusion with the new order after the fall of the Soviet system that few people understand in the West, and I think this is what fuels some of the weird nationalistic movements in Eastern Europe. Plus, in Ukrainian history, there is the Holodomor, there is Chernobyl (which according to Gorbachev, substantially contributed to the doom of the Soviet system). Those people in this part of the world that speak English, or have had exposure to Western life somewhere, as well as those who still have some independence and security are less disillusioned. But on the whole, this part of the world has been left behind. Russia especially, so no wonder narratives do not check out in a Western context. I must point out that two world wars have already started out in Eastern Europe because some of these folks were somehow regarded as not part of the civilized West who deserved attention, money, democracy and development.

There are tough times ahead, that's for sure.
Probably if I were Ukrainian, I'd support a federal solution letting those folks go that really want to go. The Mikhail Gorbachev style of solution.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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So.. what... you guys think the IMF is just gonna forget about the insane amount of money they loaned Ukraine? They already dispersed to them 3.2 Billion.. and who knows how much more on top of that.. The over-all deal was for the IMF to give them 17.1 Billion over the course of 2 years..

And you better believe that the IMF was relying on those Eastern Ukrainian resources to help levy the loans..



Coal is the main fossil fuel of Ukraine. It is mined in the Donetsk and Lviv-Volyn basins. Donetsk Basin (Donbass) is the largest in Ukraine. It is located on the territory of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts.

The area of the basin is about 60,000 sq. km. (50,000 sq. km. within Ukrainian border). The eastern part of the Donetsk Basin is located in Rostov oblast of Russia. Industrial coal mining began in 1795.

This region, in east-central Ukraine, is industrial heartland of the country and one of the major heavy-industrial and mining-metallurgical complexes of Europe. The region is the most urbanized, and russified area of Ukraine. The key cities are Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, and Donetsk.

Besides its basic mining industries, Donetsk Basin has highly developed ferrous-metals industries that produce iron and steel in large quantities. Durable goods manufactured in Donetsk Basin include mining and metallurgical equipment, diesel locomotives, and tractors.


ukrainetrek.com...

hmmm.. Donetsk.... that sounds familiar... have they been in the news lately or something?



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Yeah because fights never break out in the Russian Duma -

Or would people prefer the opposition parties storm the Ukraine parliament and seize people as the Russian goon squad did in Crimea / South / East Ukraine?


Or as the Nazi puppet regime in Kiev did.
edit on 24-7-2014 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:32 PM
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Fox News just reported the Pentagon has confirmed that Russia is firing artillery on Ukrainian military positions.

www.huffingtonpost.com...
edit on 24-7-2014 by TheChrome because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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Yea it seems to be a way of representation that place in the world works , or not .Your characterization of what actually happened in the Crimea is typical of the propaganda we hear in the west .It was the Nuland conversation that set the stage as to what was going on at the time and the resulting after math we are seeing today .The instance of who Washington wanted in power after the coup is burnt into the minds of those that are paying attention and not being fooled by the mis/dis/information coming from the talking heads and their minions . a reply to: Xcathdra



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: lightedhype





Let's just hope come election time the Ukrainians actually get somebody THEY want and not somebody we want.


Interesting because it seems they had the choice of who they wanted...





en.wikipedia.org...

It looks pretty convincing that the people did in fact vote in who they wanted.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

The only quick solution:




posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1




Your characterization of what actually happened in the Crimea is typical of the propaganda we hear in the west .


Unlike the truth you get from Russian media.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: SUBKONCIOUS

Russia is a member of the IMF.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

so i guess Nuelands ( RE: "FUUUU c the E.U,, were going with the U.N on this. moment. "


"lets go with Clithcko,,"


was spot on,,,, not.

lol



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 03:02 PM
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originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: the2ofusr1

Yeah because fights never break out in the Russian Duma -

Or would people prefer the opposition parties storm the Ukraine parliament and seize people as the Russian goon squad did in Crimea / South / East Ukraine?


Or as the Nazi puppet regime in Kiev did.


The government in Kiev at the time was elected in 2012 and Russia stated the elections were valid and recognized the outcome. Amazing how people ignore facts when they are not convenient. Like the fact that out of 450 members of Ukraine's parliament, only 35 members are part of the nationalist parties.

In comparison in the Russian Duma there are 55+ members of their nationalist party.

So if thats how you view Ukraine then you must view Russia the same.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: TheChrome

After one death Lavrov told the junta next time they will shoot back.

Russian territory shelled from Ukraine 9 times in past months



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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hmmmmm,,,

maybe someone pulls the strings,,,



dolls in dolls.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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Again people seem confused here. The Coalition disolved and everybody resigned so they could call new elections. They did this because the PMs party thinks they are on verge of finishing off the rebels and want to ride that to a victory large enough that they do not need a coalition. And the do not leave office until after the election. So what you can expect to see is the party in power just gaining more control. Unless something goes wrong like the Russians invade.
edit on 24-7-2014 by MrSpad because: (no reason given)



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