Ancient sources for rescued books from the Library of Alexandria

The Library of Alexandria in Egypt, was one of the largest and most significant libraries of the ancient world. Built by Ptolemy I Soter, the successor of Alexander the Great, it contained 500,000 scrolls from the ancient world. Later, it was sadly burnt by conquering armies, and though it was rebuilt several times most of the books where lost (or were they?).

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a8046e8aeda6.jpg[/atsimg]
(Thanks SLAYER69 for the image)

Did all the library books get destroyed, there are sources that at least some books where rescued, and I wanted this thread to be about those ancient sources (please contribute).

I will contribute myself by mentioning one ancient source of such a rescue:

Dion Cassius, the historian who lived between 155-235 AD and was consul of Africa in the reign of Septimius Severus. Cassius wrote that Septimus Severus ordered the mausoleum of Alexander the Great sealed to prevent further damage (from tourists) to the famous tomb and corpse. Severus placed in the Mausoleum all the secret books "so none could read the books nor see the body".

The mausoleum was later reopened by his successor, Caracalla, but he reportable added even more gifts to the mausoleum after seeing the body of Alexander.

A number of historians hypothesize that that the anti-pagan forces had demolished the tomb of Alexander and destroyed his corpse by 397. There are no direct accounts, and the tomb of Alexander is not mentioned in any of the sources of the time, which are otherwise often quite detailed. Yet we may draw inferences from such documents as the writings of John Chrysostom, bishop of Constantinople from 398 to 404. Drawing a contrast with the veneration paid the sepulchers of the Christian martyrs, he challenges, "Where is now the tomb of Alexander? Show me! Tell me the day of his death!"

Source

Could it be that some of the ancient books from the Library of Alexandria are still in the tomb of Alexander? I think it it facinating that some these ancient books could still be hidden somewhere - just imagine what we could have learnt from them.

Please add other ancient sources of books that were rescued from the Ancient Library of Alexandria, if any.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Howdy MM

Where and how did you come up with 5 million? There are a number of estimates of the number of scrolls and none come anywhere near that number. The largest I've seen is 700,000 scrolls equal to about 100,000 modern books.

Other sources of ancient scrolls.

Around 1500 Roman era papyri were salvaged from Herculaneum and the House of Papyri.

Villa of Papyri

Link

a reply to: MerkabaMeditationThere is one book that I do know of that was said to have been secretly rushed away when the hordes of Christians descended on the Library. If I'm not mistaken the book was taken east for safe keeping.

Considering that modern scholars estimate that surviving classical works do not exceed one tenth of the original legacy, it is inconceivable that one can form even a vague idea of the contents of the ancient library in its entirety . Yet with the help of surviving literary tradition as well as with papyrological finds, one may tentatively suggest the following brief list as a possible indication of the contents of the ancient Alexandria Library:

The writings in question concern Apollonius Of Tyana, and it appears he was a contributor to the Library.

IV Philosophy Pre-Socratics (e.g. Anaxmander, Parmenides, Xenophanes, Heraclitus), Plato, Aristotle, Theophrastus, Zeno, Epicurus, Pyrrhon, Panaetius, Philon (Alex.), Apollonius (of Tyana), Plotinus.

www.greece.org...

Ill keep digging..

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Where and how did you come up with 5 million? There are a number of estimates of the number of scrolls and none come anywhere near that number. The largest I've seen is 700,000 scrolls equal to about 100,000 modern books.

Ah, yes...my memory has failed me; it should have been 500,000 scrolls. I've corrected it now, thanks for noticing.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditationThe name of the book was ""THE LIFE OF APOLLONIUS OF TYANA", by his biographer, Philostratus"

Here is a brief retelling of the story.

So in place of Apollonius of Tyana, they put their newly created savior, whom they named "Jesus Christ," who, THEN AND THERE, was first conceived and created in the minds of Roman priests who were later known as the Nicean Church Fathers.

As soon as Jesus was put in the place of Apollonius, the task of the Roman churchmen was TO DESTROY ALL RECORDS concerning Apollonius and his Essenian Early Christian followers during the first three centuries, so that the world might forever be kept in darkness concerning this COLLOSAL DECEPTION, and be made to believe that Jesus and the Christian religion, which they originated at the BEGINNING OF THE FOURTH CENTURY A.D., antedated their creation by three centuries. It was for this reason that the Alexandrian and other ancient libraries were burnt, so that all books written during and pertaining to the FIRST THREE CENTURIES OF OUR ERA MIGHT BE DESTROYED.

And so well did the churchmen succeed in obliterating such records, that, for nearly two thousand years, the world has been kept in darkness concerning the fact that Apollonius of Tyana was the recognized world teacher of the first century, and that during the first three centuries, before he was created at the Council of Nicea, as an alternative messiah to Apollonius, no such man as Jesus Christ was known to or mentioned by ANYONE.

No greater cultural loss ever occurred than happened when the Christian mob set fire to the books and manuscripts of the Alexandrian Library, in order to destroy all records of Apollonius of Tyana, so that the world might forever be ignorant of his existence and of his replacement by the previously non-existent and unknown Jesus, which occurred at the Council of Nicea, in the year 325 A.D. But fortunately, a certain book survived - the FORBIDDEN BOOK - of all books in that great library - that was most feared. It was "THE LIFE OF APOLLONIUS OF TYANA", by his biographer, Philostratus. The book was secretly carried to the Near East for safety and for over a thousand years it was preserved among the Arabians, in spite of all efforts of the crusaders -- in the interest of the Papacy -- to destroy it.

www.hiddenmysteries.org...

I am personally shocked as I was Raised a Catholic. But if the church was born out of corruption, then its fitting its end will be the same. If, the retelling of this story is true, that is.

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: MerkabaMeditationThere is one book that I do know of that was said to have been secretly rushed away when the hordes of Christians descended on the Library. If I'm not mistaken the book was taken east for safe keeping.

Considering that modern scholars estimate that surviving classical works do not exceed one tenth of the original legacy, it is inconceivable that one can form even a vague idea of the contents of the ancient library in its entirety . Yet with the help of surviving literary tradition as well as with papyrological finds, one may tentatively suggest the following brief list as a possible indication of the contents of the ancient Alexandria Library:

IV Philosophy Pre-Socratics (e.g. Anaxmander, Parmenides, Xenophanes, Heraclitus), Plato, Aristotle, Theophrastus, Zeno, Epicurus, Pyrrhon, Panaetius, Philon (Alex.), Apollonius (of Tyana), Plotinus.

www.greece.org...

Ill keep digging..

Here is a link to post I made about the library and the Pinakles which you may find useful

Link

A. Greek : I Poetry : Homer, Hesiod, Sappho, Anakreon, Simonides, Pindar, Bacchylides, Callymachus, Apollonius, Theocritus, Aratos.

II Drama Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes, Menander, Straton (com.).

III Criticism Zenodotus, Aristophanes (of Byz.), Aristarchus (of Samothr.), Aristonicus.

IV Philosophy Pre-Socratics (e.g. Anaxmander, Parmenides, Xenophanes, Heraclitus), Plato, Aristotle, Theophrastus, Zeno, Epicurus, Pyrrhon, Panaetius, Philon (Alex.), Apollonius (of Tyana), Plotinus.

V History Hecataeus, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Ephorus, Hecataeus (Abdera)…

VI Science Original exploration reports, Eudoxus (Cnid.), Euclid, Aristarchus (Samos), Straton (Lampsacus), Eratosthenes, Megasthenes, Patroclus, Archimedes, Apollonius (Perga), Hipparchus (Nicaea), Cl. Ptolemy, Theon, Hypatia.

VII Medicine Corpus of Hippocrates, Herophilus (anatomy), Erasistratus (veins), Callimachus (med.), Sarapion, Heracleides (Tarentus), Rufus, Apollonius Mys, Galen.

B. Non-Greek : Egyptian sacred records, Manethon, Egyptian manuals on astronomy, instruments, medicine; Berossos (Babylonia), Persian religion, Hebraic scriptures, Buddhist writings….

originally posted by: Hanslune
A. Greek : I Poetry : Homer, Hesiod, Sappho, Anakreon, Simonides, Pindar, Bacchylides, Callymachus, Apollonius, Theocritus, Aratos.

II Drama Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes, Menander, Straton (com.).

III Criticism Zenodotus, Aristophanes (of Byz.), Aristarchus (of Samothr.), Aristonicus.

IV Philosophy Pre-Socratics (e.g. Anaxmander, Parmenides, Xenophanes, Heraclitus), Plato, Aristotle, Theophrastus, Zeno, Epicurus, Pyrrhon, Panaetius, Philon (Alex.), Apollonius (of Tyana), Plotinus.

V History Hecataeus, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Ephorus, Hecataeus (Abdera)…

VI Science Original exploration reports, Eudoxus (Cnid.), Euclid, Aristarchus (Samos), Straton (Lampsacus), Eratosthenes, Megasthenes, Patroclus, Archimedes, Apollonius (Perga), Hipparchus (Nicaea), Cl. Ptolemy, Theon, Hypatia.

VII Medicine Corpus of Hippocrates, Herophilus (anatomy), Erasistratus (veins), Callimachus (med.), Sarapion, Heracleides (Tarentus), Rufus, Apollonius Mys, Galen.

B. Non-Greek : Egyptian sacred records, Manethon, Egyptian manuals on astronomy, instruments, medicine; Berossos (Babylonia), Persian religion, Hebraic scriptures, Buddhist writings….

Interesting. Which of these books do you think where considered "secret books" by Severus? So secret that he hid them from public view.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

I couldn't comment on that as I have not seen what SS said, can you link to the original Latin transcription?

well im up for a look inside!

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

I couldn't comment on that as I have not seen what SS said, can you link to the original Latin transcription?

Here you go:

Loeb Classical Library, 9 volumes, Greek texts and facing English translation: Harvard University Press, 1914 thru 1927. Translation by Earnest Cary.

76-13:
After conducting the siege for twenty days, he then went to Palestine, where he sacrificed to the spirit of Pompey. Thence he sailed to Upper Egypt, passing up the Nile, and viewed the whole country with some few exceptions; for instance, he was unable to pass the frontier of Ethiopia because of a pestilence. He inquired into everything, including things that were very carefully hidden; for he was the kind of person to leave nothing, either human or divine, uninvestigated. Accordingly, he took away from practically all the sanctuaries all the books that he could find containing any secret lore, and he locked up the tomb of Alexander; this was in order that no one in future should either view Alexander's body or read what was written in the above-mentioned books. So much, then, for what Severus was doing.

-MM

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Thanks for finding that I would suspect it was religious writings he locked up probably Egyptian which could still be read at that time. Why would he have done what Cassius said he did? Unknown, however I have poised that question to those of greater intellect and knowledge than my own.

Perhaps Harte, Blackmarketeer or Skalla could comment?

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: MerkabaMeditation

Thanks for finding that I would suspect it was religious writings he locked up probably Egyptian which could still be read at that time. Why would he have done what Cassius said he did? Unknown, however I have poised that question to those of greater intellect and knowledge than my own.

Perhaps Harte, Blackmarketeer or Skalla could comment?

I also noticed that it does not explicitly say that he took scrolls from the Library of Alexandria, but since the Mausoleum of Alexander the Great most likely was/is in Alexandria I may have taken a slight leap of faith that some of the books were in fact from the library.

Another thing I noticed from the complete translation is that it does not explicitly say that he sealed the scrolls inside the tomb, just that he took all the secret scrolls and sealed the tomb.

-MM

Sadly paper and wood decays if not stored under very special conditions.

Merely writings on metal from very ancient times and stones from ancient times survive, writings on crystal from very very ancient times.

Sadly, those findings are usually taken away and hidden or destroyed.

a reply to: oneoneone

Sadly, those findings are usually taken away and hidden or destroyed.

Sadly, so true. I sure do wonder what is in those Vatican Vaults. Maybe even some of those scrolls reportedly, burned.... Christians really seem to be good at playing with fire.

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: oneoneone

Sadly, those findings are usually taken away and hidden or destroyed.

Sadly, so true. I sure do wonder what is in those Vatican Vaults. Maybe even some of those scrolls reportedly, burned.... Christians really seem to be good at playing with fire.

Nothing, if you want something kept secret - you destroy it - not store it in a place that was repeatedly looted during the centuries.

Perhaps a little off topic but I recently saw a documentary on YouTube done by history channel, I think, and the main theme was the narrator going upstream from Timbuktu.

In one scene he was shown a whole storeroom of books and documents in metal trunks by a local. This local guy said that that collection was just his families and many other families had similar book collections. The town was slowly restoring them and putting them in libraries. Apparently there were books buried even. Wish I could find it and link it because it was fascinating.

Anyhow, there is bibliotreasure out there...some survives and is owned by someone, somewhere. I really wish the world cared more about this.

a reply to: igloo

Let's hope the books turn up soon.

-MM

My understanding was that the Library confiscated all Scrolls/books coming into Alexandria and then proceed to Scribe them, ie make a copy, then give the original back.

That being the case, where would some of the "lost" documents have originated from? Maybe we should be searching there rather than in Egypt.

It seems to be a huge loss for humanity. The same thing is happening right now and nobody is stopping it.

ISIS is destroying holy & historical sites that can never be replaced. Someday people will look back again and morn the losses.

a reply to: MerkabaMeditation
It seems as though, most, if not all the works in the Library were copied, and returned to the owners. So that would mean that much of the original works, are still out there as a copy of the original, somewhere.

The Collection

One of the major endeavors of any library is the collection of materials. The Library of Alexandria is no exception. The 400,000 to 700,000 rolls attributed to its collection did not simply appear by magic; they must have been acquired through some means. The bibliomania of the first three Ptolemies was influential in building the Great Library’s collection, and it cannot be understated.[84] They did not want only books[85], they wanted the best, most original, most authoritative copies[86] of, “if possible, all the books in the world”,[87] and they were willing to buy, borrow, or steal in order to get them. During the reign of Ptolemy Eurgertes, the Library borrowed Athens’ official versions of the plays of Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides, giving Athens an enormous amount of money; the modern equivalent of millions of dollars, as surety for their return.[88] The scribes of the Library made fine copies of these books on the highest quality of parchment. The originals were kept for the Great Library and the copies were returned to Athens, causing the Alexandrians to forfeit their bond.[89] Other ethically dubious means for procuring materials were also employed. It is said that during a famine in Athens, ambassadors from the Great Library forced the sale of valuable original manuscripts owned by that city in exchange for food.[90] A more conventional technique employed by the Ptolemies was to send people out to buy books, looking especially for rare texts and libraries which might be bought en masse.[91] In addition to buying books, the Ptolemies acquired books through plunder. It is widely reported that upon entering the Alexandrian harbor, ships were inspected, and any books they were carrying were seized.[92] A copy was made and given to the original owner, but the original was kept for the Great Library.[93] It was though such means that the Great Library amassed its large collection.[94] Once obtained by the Library, any works written in a different language were subsequently translated into Greek.[95] This allowed the reconstruction and creation of standard texts of Greek classics, which heretofore had not existed.[96]

unllib.unl.edu...