How far can you run in 58 secs?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
and they, just like any other government in the world are entitled to defend their homeland and it's people by whatever means at their disposal.

In this case Israel is just defending itself from these attacks
en.wikipedia.org...

So according to you it is OK for Israel to defend itself against these attacks - or do you think Jews should not be allowed to defend themselves?

Never said anything about Israel, i was merely pointing out that YOUR "Terrorists" are a democratically elected leadership.

originally posted by: buster2010
Israel attacked first on this one

Wrong actually, why ignore these?

In January, Palestinian Militants launched 22 rockets and four mortar shell at Israel in 19 separate attacks
In February, Palestinian Militants launched nine rockets at Israel in seven separate attacks
In March, Palestinians launched 65 rockets and mortar shell, in 23 attacks
In April, There were 19 rockets and 5 mortar shell in 14 attacks towards Israel
In May 4 rockets and 3 mortar shells were launched from Gaza in 5 attacks towards Israel
In June about 53 rockets and a mortar shell were launched from Gaza in about 17 attacks towards Israel
In July several hundred were fired

So Israel is not allowed to defend itself against these attacks?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: buster2010
Israel attacked first on this one

Wrong actually, why ignore these?

In January, Palestinian Militants launched 22 rockets and four mortar shell at Israel in 19 separate attacks
In February, Palestinian Militants launched nine rockets at Israel in seven separate attacks
In March, Palestinians launched 65 rockets and mortar shell, in 23 attacks
In April, There were 19 rockets and 5 mortar shell in 14 attacks towards Israel
In May 4 rockets and 3 mortar shells were launched from Gaza in 5 attacks towards Israel
In June about 53 rockets and a mortar shell were launched from Gaza in about 17 attacks towards Israel
In July several hundred were fired

So Israel is not allowed to defend itself against these attacks?

And not one injury..? What are they firing? Bottle rockets.?

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
And not one injury..?

Well, Israel has spent money on missile defence, also early warning. If Hamas had simply stopped attacking Israel there would be no Palestinian deaths, but as we have seen Hamas love Palestinian deaths, they and their supporters use them for propaganda.....

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: beezzer
If I lived in an area that has become a war zone, then I'd move. And rather quickly.

I don't think I'd gamble the lives of my family on whether or not my apartment was going to get bombed.

The only reason to stay in a war zone is to fight, er. . . umm. . . . a war.

And what if you had nowhere to "move" to?

Then I'd get creative real quick and find a place.

What do you suggest these Palestinians do? Whip out the old AMEX Platinum, buy a house in Mallorca, call the moving company and pile the family in the Mercedes?

I don't understand the astounding lack of context going on here.

If you want to improve your chances of living, get out of the zone where war is being actively fought. If you stay in an area where war is actively being conducted, your chances of dying increase.

Sorry to edit down your post like this, but I felt the emphasis needs to be drawn. You chide others for a "lack of context" but then demonstrate that you really have no clue what you're talking about, either.

Gaza is a patch of land smaller than Manhattan island. it's surrounded on all sides by hostiles who will not allow passage over borders to refuge. One of those hostile powers is bombing the place to smithereens andh as decided that homes, hospitals, and pparently even open beaches, are "military targets".

There is simply no place to "get out" to.

a reply to: TheTengriist

Then it was a poor decision to conduct a war in the first place then, wasn't it.

originally posted by: haven123
Why do Israel get away with this...
They break the geneva convention like its a hobby of theirs

What are they supposed to do? They are fighting opponents that think nothing of using schools, ambulances, mosques, private dwellings loaded with women and children as bases to both store their munitions and operate from.

When you fight an enemy that uses its own civilian population against you, there are no easy solutions except to sit there and let them fire rockets at you at their leisure.

Someday, that kind of war may come to us, too, and then we'll see what kind of steps you might be willing to take. It's very easy to play armchair general when you have no real stake in the game.

a reply to: TheTengriist

If the people in that small patch of land are storing and firing rockets from those places you mention, and they do, then they are indeed military targets.

a reply to: ketsuko

What are they supposed to do? They are fighting opponents that think nothing of using schools, ambulances, mosques, private dwellings loaded with women and children as bases to both store their munitions and operate from.

And the Israelis will then immediately level those schools and mosques regardless of how many children or innocents are inside. Which is worse?

a reply to: Flatcoat

since about 1950s the IDF has enjoyed at minimum a 7-1 kill ratio rising as high as 20-1 during six days war (counting machines and material not just infantry) it is the sole strategy they employ and its how you win wars of attrition.population wise being outnumbered 300million to 8million in terms of their (neighbors mostly hostile) they kind of have to be as efficient at what they do or they would have been eliminated decades ago.

As beezer pointed out this is what is commonly referred to as war,one that Israeli's have been winning(by surviving) for the last 50 years,every time there is a legit conflict not just a brushfire/internal skrimish. one by one or 7-1 they have maintained dominance by having superior fighting equipment training and discipline,some might call the isreli actions overzealous or "unfair" but when your facing odds that they are fair hardly comes into the equation and well it being war and all and i cant think of one war that was considered "fair" for all sides and parties let alone civilians on both sides

and they the Israelis are not even the best at employing this tactic as its pretty much what made the swiss famous (other then their pikes) in medevil times.as since declaring their independence they have systematically killed to the last man every single person who has invaded their nation,often times executing POWS one by one by drowning them in a frozen lake and as they have not been involved in any war since 1815 and have not been involved in a foreign war since 1515 i think the tactic worked well for them and the Israelis seem to be utilizing a toned down version of such plan

a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

since about 1950s the IDF has enjoyed at minimum a 7-1 kill ratio

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, are you saying that out of every seven children killed, only one was innocent?

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: TheTengriist

Then it was a poor decision to conduct a war in the first place then, wasn't it.

First, you seem to be blaming the victims here. I hope that's not the case because of so, it's rather grotesque.

Now, consider; Palestine is occupied territory. it doesn't matter if Israeli forces are in Gaza, Gaza is part of Palestine and Palestine is occupied territory (and Gaza, as we see, is well within the control of Israel's military.) As the occupying power, Israel has certain legal duties and obligations towards Palestine - including Gaza.

In broad terms it is in violation of these duties and obligations, most egregiously in its conducting of population transfers, land and resource seizures, and mass arrests sans trials. But further, occupying powers also have the obligation to ensure public order and safety, provision of food, water, and medical supplies, maintaining medical facilities and services, ensuring public health and hygiene, and facilitating the work of educational services. if the occupying power is materially unable to do these things, then it is obligated to allow other states or NGOs access to the occupied territory in order to ensure these things are achieved.

Israel is in gross violation of its obligations, especially in regard to Gaza.

Now unfortunately, legal processes taken by the Palestinians to ensure their rights are maintained and that Israel lives up to its obligations to them have been continually stymied. Israel's government has a nasty habit of ignoring its own courts, and on the international level, the United States wields its very considerable clout in favor of whatever israel wants. And Israel wants to be exempt from the obligations expected of it under international law.

So currently it seems that the Palestinian's options amount to dying on their feet or dying on their knees.

Both outcomes could be avoided if israel simply met its obligations as occupying power.

a reply to: Flatcoat

im saying that killing the enemy at superior levels compared to your side's looses is how you win wars of attrition.and as pretty much every war since the dawn of man kind has involved some kind of civilian casualties that honestly in the scope of a war personally i dont make the distinction they are either your enemies and to be killed as efficiently as possible (war and all)

a civilian child today is carrying a gun 5-10 years down the road in that region(gotta get them when they are young dont ya know) ,so in the grand scope of Israeli strategy it seems to be working quite well for them due to a combination of inefficient strikes by Hamas and other groups which are almost always responded to with more efficient and accurate weapons (Hamas throws rocks and launch crappy rockets and then are surprised when they are hit with smart bombs and air strikes ) if hamas would stop launching rockets rigging children with bombs and throwing rocks at people armed with nuclear weapons their people may not be getting killed in such high numbers.

and you would think the Palestinian's neighbors would be more helpful to them instead of closing off the border every time Israel starts bombing Gaza,their neighbors use them as pawns but only when the need suits them,but i guess they could be remembering the last time they tussled with the Israelis and half their army died in the dessert

the part about the swiss related as the swiss have done a comparable strategy in ancient times but instead of invading they just kill every single invader who sets foot in their land,as since they have instituted this strategy they have not been successfully invaded once