Divine Inspiration

Posted this in another thread but amidst the on going discussion there it was ignored or missed (except by Akragon). I decided these questions deserved a thread of their own.

The books in the Bible are supposed to have been divinely inspired by God. Likewise, the council that decided what was in, and what was out, were supposed to have been divinely inspired by God. Books that didn't make it into the cannon are largely considered to be false doctrines, or the work of fallen angels trying to lead man astray.

1) What proves the books in the Bible were divinely inspired?
2) What proves the Bible itself was divinely inspired?
3) Why aren't some of the things coming out of the Catholic church, and other denominations, considered divinely inspired? (e.g. the Pope saying he would baptize extraterrestrials)

My personal belief, at least when it comes to Catholicism, is that any truth that may be found in old scriptures and texts was twisted hundreds and hundreds of years ago, by them, for purposes of control. Lies told over and over again for hundreds of years, and it stuck. From Catholicism eventually sprang all the other Christian denominations, and here we are today.

Here are some examples of things in the past that were accepted to be Gods divine will.

1) Monarchs right to rule (we certainly don't feel our leaders were appointed by God today).
2) Indulgences. There was a day when God allowed you to pay a fine for your sins!
3) Pagan traditions combined with Christian tradition. Bam! Saturnalia becomes Christmas and Ishtar becomes the Easter Bunny.

So, again. How can you know beyond a shadow of a doubt the Bible was divinely inspired?

our comprehension of this is based on how our parents and the ones that taught us comprehended it. This goes back many hundred years. No, the bible does not say what many think it says, the things in common amongst the scriptures were designed to fit together. It doesn't have to be inspired by the divine but a lot of it could have been.

I see a lot of interesting things in the bible, and read it so I can learn to comprehend the misguided beliefs of many of the people who believe in god. I also try to study the base of other religions to help me understand what their followers are thinking. The bible, and other religious texts, structured this world as we know it.

I would like to say that I believe in a supreme being, called god I guess, but do not believe religions are necessary, except to try to structure societies.

The problem dealing with the divine is that sometimes the ego interprets what it wants and you end up with believing a humanized lower level view of the divine.

Why not use the third eye and your own consciousness to get the answers than being told by a priest what view you should have. From my point of view the divine is no matter what human religions we create and the miss understandings are on the human side not the other side.

It is all a matter of faith and we have not much around.

a reply to: deadeyedick

That is kind of a safety net answer imo.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: deadeyedick



That is kind of a safety net answer imo.

Well that would just be one way to look at the truth. I could fluff it up for you but it would still be a lack of faith in the unknown that makes one not believe. Most would quote you very much scripture that proves what i am saying but i just like to keep it simple because the majority of people that ask the question are just trying to find a way around the answer. I don't mean you but if you search through some of the old threads then there are some great threads that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that faith is the answer. In short i can not give someone faith if GOD has choose to see if you cling to it or let it fade. At the end of the day you either believe you were just an environmental coincidence or you believe in the poetry of motion. Everything else is just filler.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

As far as I can tell, all OT and NT prophecies share a rhetorical syllable metering, in their original languages, that is divisible by factors of 7 per syntactical paragraph. This consistent pattern allows us to establish a prophetic timeline beginning from the fall of Adam all the way to the penning of Revelation.

Psalm 90 seems to be the key to interpreting all metered prophecies.

I have personally seen this pattern myself in Zephanaiah 1.

Here is an introduction to the Meter for those who are interested:

www.brainout.net...

While this may not prove that the Bible is the infallable word of God, it does unify the OT and NT without question (in my mind). The fact that the meter datelines correspond to historically accurate data, makes it highly unlikely that the Bible was fabricated on a whim, or that the texts were forged/adultered. While there are later additions and alterations to the texts, these instances are minor, and stick out like a sore thumb.

Belief in infalibility requires faith, but that faith is not unfounded. The Bible is a closed unit, and it interprets itself. No other collection of "spiritual" literature can make that claim. While metering was common in the ancient world, the bible's meter predicted historical events, and fills in gaps of historical data.

The sad part is that the meter has been forgotten and over looked for nearly 2000 years now.

Edit:

What proves to me beyond the shadow of a doubt the veracity of the scriptures?

The fact that God has blessed me beyond my expectation. Before I lived by God's word, happiness was no where to be found. Friends stabbed me in the back, all of my plans became frustrated, I slowly descended into manic-depressive trends (medication didnt help), and hatred became my driving force.

After studying and living by God's word, my burden was lifted with each passing day. I have been given the capacity for happiness, I have been blessed with family and friends who love me, the lives of those around me have improved, and hatred is no longer my burden. I still struggle with sin and anger from time to time, but nothing like before. Since my initial return to God, I have also seen miracles and supernatural events with my own eyes. The Lord has blessed me with the spiritual gifts of happiness, knowledge (gnosis) and wisdom (epignosis).

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

It bothers me a little when someone looks at the supernatural or mystical, then says "Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are right." It's a silly question, nonsensical and illogical if you will, and displays a bias.

Who has ever asked an Atheist to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're right and received such proof? No one.

The supernatural, because it is outside of "nature" can't be weighed, measured, or put in a spectroscope. All there is is evidence, not proof, and logical arguments. Whether you believe it or not is between you and God. It won't ever be "proven" this side of the grave.

3) Why aren't some of the things coming out of the Catholic church, and other denominations, considered divinely inspired? (e.g. the Pope saying he would baptize extraterrestrials)

At least in the Church, the Pope's words are not always considered divinely inspired. He mentioned that he would be cheering for his favorite Argentinian soccer team. Nobody takes that as divinely inspired. Other than that, go ask him if it was.

The text was twisted? Any competent scholar of those languages can go back and check the documents historicity. It's usually accepted that we have what was written. Is what we have divinely inspired? It's up to you to decide, after you have done some serious digging.

Extra-terrestrials? What did the Pope say?

"If, for example, an expedition of Martians arrived tomorrow," and one said he wanted to be baptized, "What would happen?" the pope asked May 12 during his early morning Mass at the Domus Sanctae Marthae.

Explaining that he really was talking about Martians, something unimaginable, he said he meant beings that are "green, with long noses and big ears, like in children's drawings."

According to Vatican Radio, Pope Francis said that if the Holy Spirit prompted the most unusual being to seek baptism, who would we be to hinder that person?

The pope focused his homily on the day's first reading, Acts 11:1-18, which tells of the Apostles' discussion -- and consternation -- over the Holy Spirit descending on a group of Gentiles at a time when the rest of the community of believers came from the Jewish tradition.

From the very beginnings of Christianity, the pope said, church leaders and members have been tempted at times to block the Holy Spirit's path or try to control it.

"When the Lord shows us the way, who are we to say, 'No, Lord, it is not prudent! No, let's do it this way,'" he said. "Who are we to close doors?"

Do you object to that?

a reply to: charles1952

First, I should not have used the words "beyond a shadow of a doubt", for the exact reasons you stated.

Twisted in the sense that previously accepted books were deemed false and now you're not supposed to touch them with a ten foot pole (even though some of them are referenced in the Bible). Picking and choosing what went in, and what went out of the Bible.

As for the Pope baptizing little green men, or any non human entity, I definitely see that as an issue. Not for me personally though. As far as Christianity goes, those little green men aren't extra terrestrials they're fallen angels and demons. If the church was to accept extra terrestrial life they would be going against the Biblical narrative. Of course times change and Christian religions evolves to fit the times. Which imo means it isn't the same today, as it was yesterday and will be forever, as it is said to be, by God himself. That's why despite being told not to celebrate and partake in vain, pagan traditions, a huge part of Christendom now takes part in Christmas and Easter. Basically, because these traditions were brought in by the church so the pagans would sign up. Interestingly, I believe it wasn't until sometime after the Civil War that American Christians finally started accepting Easter. Perhaps you see where I'm coming from. I see a religion that was once the ultimate TPTB, do things left and right to keep people in the faith, that do not line up with the word of God. So I ask myself, what else have they done to make people believe they have the truth? Maybe one of those things was make claims of the texts being divinely inspired.

I see a religion that sought to control the masses, and their methods hundreds of years ago worked great hundreds of years ago. But now in the 21st century with all the new discoveries in space etc. some of the old dogmas don't keep up with secular thinking so the church adapts. This is why many believe the Catholic church to be an evil force attempting to bring all religions together. The One World Religion for the New World Order. Bringing everyone together is all well and good, don't get me wrong. But from a Biblical standpoint, molding religions together is not.

I'm no scholar but I do feel I've done some serious digging. I personally found many reasons to question my faith (was a Baptist) and question Christianity in general. Some of the reasons I've mentioned, but there are others. That's why I say I believe any truth was twisted. All the words are there historicity (I'm including apocryphal texts) as you say but is the message the same, or maybe watered down? I don't know. I guess I would have to say if the Bible is divinely inspired, it's definitely been used an abused.

My sincere apologies if I come off as a jerk or something. Ik I've said some comments in other threads I should have thought about first, and I can come off like I don't care about other peoples opinions when I don't mean to. Like when I said prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in my OP.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Ah, I remember you mentioning this in a previous thread. I bookmarked your links but forgot about them. I will go check them out. Thanks for your input.

a reply to: deadeyedick

I can definitely agree that faith is powerful.

My mom's husband was healed of a back injury that was going to put him out of work for a month or two after praying out to Jesus to end his suffering. I believe his story and have seen his passion for the Lord firsthand.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

What proves that the Bible is divinely inspired? You KNOW the Bible is divinely inspired when the Bible opens up, becomes interactive with you, and teaches you, so that you understand it! You understand the prophecies. You understand the words of God. You understand the words of the Son of God.

I would even go so far as to say that the lessons the Holy Spirit teaches through the Bible are tailored specifically to you personally, to get through your filters, beliefs, and preconceptions even. The lessons start off at a pretty basic level, but build up as your knowledge and understanding increases.

When men decided which books to include in the canon and which books to leave out, they were not divinely inspired, because many of these excluded books do the same things as those included within the Bible, such as instructing you and revealing the meanings of prophecies.

Also, you get nuggets of information from all sorts of outside sources that clarify Biblical meanings, so there are plenty of ‘Ahhaah’ and ‘Eureka’ moments!

The reasons that divine inspiration, spiritual knowledge and true religious information does not come out of churches, is because the churches stand in the way of your contact with the Creator and with His Son!

This is also the reason for the silence from God for the last two thousand years, but this is about to change dramatically because these are the end times and we are that last generation.

a reply to: Maigret

you do realise people have been saying "these are the end times" for 2000 years right...

No... these are not the end times... Don't believe the hype

And no God is not silent, HE speaks to you, and everyone else every day... but most don't hear him

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Dear WakeUpBeer,

This is not intended as an insult, but I think I like you. Several other people have been informed of that fact and, as far as I know, they have not been stricken with bad breath, psoriasis, or a decline in virility.

Let's see what we can make of all this confusion.

It seems as though one of the important areas you address is sin. Things like Easter Bunnies and Santa Claus. I have more belief in Santa Claus than the Easter Bunny, because Santa is based in history. But for me, someone sins if they have a well-formed and instructed conscience, realize that their action is sinful, and do it anyway with complete freedom to choose another path.

But even that doesn't make you a non-Christian, repentance is always possible, unto the last breath.

The Bible, obviously, is vitally important. While we can't have proof, as you've most generously noted, we do have some evidence. For me, I'm willing to accept the Bible we have today as authoritative. Nor because it has been proved to me, but because there don't seem to be any changes suggested that would improve it. It seems to be enough for me to guide my life by.

You're absolutely right that the books in the Bible were picked and chosen from among others. Jesus wasn't in any position to tell us what the New Testament books should be, they hadn't been written. The whole process of picking and choosing took two to three centuries. I'm pretty sure I couldn't have done any better.

Was the Bible divinely inspired? I believe so, others don't. Maybe you're on the fence. Tell me how it would affect your life if you believed they weren't divinely inspired. Would you find a non-Christian religion? Believe however you wanted to believe (basically making up your own religion)?

Has the Bible been used or abused? Probably, at one point or another. But do you see what your question necessarily means? It means that there is a way to use the Bible properly. That's important. As long as we are men, we'll screw things up. Even interpretations of the Bible. But the Church is there to say, "Wait a minute, that's a heresy." And if they don't catch it right away, it's caught down the road of time somewhere. Our job, and the job of any Christian religion, is to use the Bible and the thoughts of wise men to guide us to eternity with God.

I'm a little confused with the idea of a "one world religion." Of course, every religion and denomination would like to convert everybody. I can't see that as bad. But if the State creates a religion and brings everybody into forced agreement with it, that would be catastrophic. One hope I have is that the Catholic Church seems to be the one religion that is giving the US government and society a hard time. I like that.

Many Catholics don't follow the Church's teachings, but is the fault in the teachings, or in those who don't follow them.

I'm not too concerned about the Church adapting, depending what we mean by that. If the Church has always preached on the sanctity and dignity of human life, then fetal stem cell research pops up, that's a new question that has to be addressed. But I don't see them changing their teaching, just bringing that teaching to cover situations that hadn't arisen before.

Anyway, I really enjoyed your post. I don't think anyone sees you as a jerk, I certainly don't.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Jesus wasn't in any position to tell us what the New Testament books should be

technically he already did...

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

a reply to: Akragon

Dear Akragon,

How wonderful it is to see you up and spitting tacks. If it wasn't for the fact that it is one in the morning here, I'd probably have a penetrating and insightful reply, causing you to name your first born after me.

At the moment, all I can do is re-read your post, and try to think I'm not going nuts. I know you're trying to tell me something, but I don't see it. Maybe tomorrow I will.

How does "call no man father" result in "Make sure you put in First Timothy?"

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Try exchanging the word Rabbi, with the word teacher...

a reply to: Akragon

Dear Akragon,

Does that mean the National Education Association and the National Federation of Teachers are Anti-Christian organizations? (I kind of thought so.)

I'm half serious and half joking.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Everyone's a comedian these days...

what else is needed aside from the gospels?

a reply to: Akragon

Dear Akragon,

You deserve a better answer than I can give you this morning (2 a.m) let me try a little later. This has come up in passing before, mostly in relation to Paul, but really, I'm a little out of it.

With respect,
Charles1952