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originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: Arbitrageur
Does color require more than one photon?
Say there exists 1 single photon. And it is moving in the wave length associated with green.
Say there exists another single photon. And it is moving in the wave length associated with red.
Or is that not how it goes.
Does a single photon emitted from the sun, move in the wave length of white?
Or is the concept of white, a false concept; that it is only the sensory apparatus of mind being overloaded?
Black being the sensory apparatus of mind failing to be stimulated by photon.
So when it is said; the sun emits white light; this merely means the sun emits too many photons for the mind to make colors of?
So then I get to my question;
Oh, well now I see immediately why we dont look into the sun;
And I answer my own question, that whenever we are not looking directly into the sun, the direct photons from the sun dont enter our eyes, so we always receive less than full potency photons, as reflected and refracted off of earthly objects, which have their various colors and such.
I guess the basis of my question was wondering about the nature of white, if it is a sort of real wave length color, or if it is just the mechanism of our mind not being able to compute the wavelengths; like a white flower exists, does that just means it reflects too many photons for us to see what color it truly is? But we could theoretically create a device which could determine what color a white flower is, but it would be a psychedelic, dynamic and sporadic tye dye of all sorts of colors many times over registering in many spaces a second?
So white is just incoherent light, but it is interesting because it is still sensed and seen continuously as white, there is something in and of the mind which produces the sensual recognition of white, instead of the sensual recognition of each different wavelength that makes up the white.
Some extra curricular homework; when you are out and about at night, in a car with a dash board with lights, or walking around a neighborhood with street lights, or if a coming car is coming with headlights, without of course looking directly at light ever, try to pay attention to the movements of your head, and how you can orient your head in positions, so that you see the light in interesting ways, I suspect to do at least partly with the contour of eye;
but I recall one that I experience most often, besides street lamps, is lights on dash board of car; green digital clock lights, when the car is dark at night;
And I can move my head around, and see the beams of light extending;
I have also done this at times and in ways, in which I see (not anything like the 'floaties' or whatever, this is a different phenomenon all together) little bullseye like circles, two rings, smaller one in slightly larger, ~perfect circles, and I can move my head and they remain, in certain contexts, and new ones appear;
I am not sure if that is pixels of eye or mind, consistently registering light, but it is interesting none the less.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: Arbitrageur
How many photons are required generally/on average to send a short text message (lets say the text message reads 'Hi');
Difference between say sent from New York to some where in New York;
And from New York to somewhere in California;
Does it send to cell tower, which then sends to cell tower to cell tower to cell tower?
If so, lets consider the original relationship with cellphone and most local cell tower;
How many photons from the phone to the tower?
One frequency per photon, but it's not always a color. An X-ray photon has no visible light color.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: Arbitrageur
Does color require more than one photon?
Say there exists 1 single photon. And it is moving in the wave length associated with green.
Say there exists another single photon. And it is moving in the wave length associated with red.
Or is that not how it goes.
You didn't do the prism experiment in school where you take nearly white sunlight and see how the prism separates the colors? I thought most schools showed kids that experiment.
Does a single photon emitted from the sun, move in the wave length of white?
Or is the concept of white, a false concept; that it is only the sensory apparatus of mind being overloaded?
Did you read the link I suggested in my previous reply?
originally posted by: ImaFungi
I was wondering, if the galaxies as classical objects moving apart from one another;
eventually will alter the nature of the laws of physics or the means and modes of existence of fields and matter;
You've heard of Occam's razor, right? Ever hear of Newton's flaming laser sword?
I suppose this relates directly to the theories of 'multi verse and universe seeding and birthing and runaway universe or whatever'.
I'm not sure why it matters. The lower the frequency the less we worry about photons. This concept has already been explained several times in this thread. When the frequency gets low enough it's difficult to count photons. Theoretically there are still photons at low frequencies but if you can't count them, I'm not sure why you would care how many there are, and you also have no way to test whether the answer is correct or not.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: Arbitrageur
How many photons are required generally/on average to send a short text message (lets say the text message reads 'Hi');
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
When you're barely into reading the assertions of Larson and you see they have obvious contradictions with known observations, what's to research? You know immediately that it's wrong and there's no point in wasting any more time on it, as happened when this astronomer took a look at it and immediately found three claims which he immediately knew were false, explained in the link:
Example 1: in their view of stellar evolution stars begin as red dwarfs (low surface temperature, low luminosity) and as they grow older their density, temperature, and luminosity increase, culminating in an explosion.
We know from the fossil record, however, that the surface temperature of the Earth hasn't changed very much over the planet's history, and since this temperature reflects at least partially the energy input from the Sun, the solar luminosity can't have changed by very much either, maybe a factor of two. That sounds like a lot, but the red dwarfs which are the supposed early stage for the Sun are thousands of times less luminous than the Sun is now. This kind of luminosity is incompatible with the geologic record.
Example 2: the prediction is made that hotter and brighter main sequence stars are denser than the cooler and fainter ones; this is directly contradicted by observations of stars.
... By taking repeated spectroscopic observations of the stars we can work out the the orbits of the stars around each other.
This involves using the Doppler effect (see here, among many other places on the web, for something about it) to tell how fast the stars are moving -- this same physical effect is used by radar "guns" to measure the speeds of stars, and then using three of Issac Newton's inventions, calculus and the laws of motion and gravitation, to solve for the orbit.
Example 3: In some of the stuff "worked out" about the structure of the Sun and the nature of sunspots, the implication is clearly made that the oblateness of the Sun (that is, how flattened the Sun's disk appears to us) should change over the course of the 11-year sunspot cycle, in the sense that it should become more oblate as the cycle progresses and sunspots appear at lower solar latitudes. This also is directly contradicted by observations: the oblateness of the Sun is constant over time within the accuracy of our measurements.
There are certainly other problems with their work. I picked out three items that I spotted quickly and could refute in a short amount of time.
RST makes claims that would make it impossible for computers, cellphones, radios, and televisions to work. Do you see them work?
scientists make mistakes all the time, but Satz absurdly never bothered to test the predictions of his Wrong Theory, despite having worked on RST for approximately three decades. He did not recognize that essentially the entirety of electronic devices would simply not function if he were correct. The able functioning of multiple billions of computers, cellphones, radios, televisions, clocks and the like show us that Satz and RST are not only wrong, but overwhelmingly so.
originally posted by: ErosA433
a reply to: ImaFungi
The sun for you en.wikipedia.org...#/media/File:Solar_Spectrum_by_NOAO.jpg
a nice pictorial representation of what sunlight 'looks like' to us. split up in wavelengths
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
One frequency per photon, but it's not always a color. An X-ray photon has no visible light color.
You didn't do the prism experiment in school where you take nearly white sunlight and see how the prism separates the colors? I thought most schools showed kids that experiment.
You've heard of Occam's razor, right? Ever hear of Newton's flaming laser sword?
Larson died in 1990 but Satz has been the torch carrier for RST since Larson's death.
originally posted by: Flux8
I will look into Satz, but doesn't RST have to do with Mr. Larson? Lets keep apples to apples.
I don't know about "overloading", but all colors are as we perceive them in our minds and white is all of them combined in the right proportion. Some animals can see beyond human vision into infrared or ultraviolet. We can measure the frequencies of those wavelengths but we can't "see" them, unless we "translate" the different infrared frequencies into something in visible wavelengths, which is what we see infrared cameras doing.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
Is white, only! the overloading of our mind?
You mentioned multiverse and my point was if you can't show the existence of other universes in experiment (can you?) there doesn't seem to be much point in debating them. You can ask a question and get lots of answers which may be wrong but not contradicted by any experiment because we don't have a way to measure other universes.
Either you didnt understand what I wrote or...I dont know what... it is a good question... I think you didnt understand it.
Yes, the blue photon has a higher frequency and thus higher energy than the red photon.
originally posted by: Bedlam
The frequency, obviously.
originally posted by: Bedlam
originally posted by: ImaFungi
So one photon has red frequency;
One photon has blue frequency; (stated that way for simplicities sake, I understand it may not be proper)
What is physically different between these photons...
The frequency, obviously.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
originally posted by: Bedlam
originally posted by: ImaFungi
So one photon has red frequency;
One photon has blue frequency; (stated that way for simplicities sake, I understand it may not be proper)
What is physically different between these photons...
The frequency, obviously.
Ok;
So we have two different photons, traveling with/as different frequencies.
What is the meaning of a single photon traveling as a frequency?
A single ball, bobbing up and down?
Is that the closest analogy and capturer of reality?
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
I don't think it's much like a ball bobbing up and down.