ISRAEL launches offensive on Gaza!

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: hellobruce

The Israeli Air Force has dropped approximately 400 tonnes of bombs and missiles on the Gaza Strip over the past two days, a senior official said today.

One hopes the Hamas terrorists have learnt a valuable lesson and stop attacking Israel!

Ah yes nothing like the old killing of innocent children to teach someone a lesson

Your comment is sick

Hamas loves that game. Didn't they start this by killing innocent kids? And then they hid their rocket launchers behind the school? Who really loves death here and killing children?

who killed those three boys?

we know Netanyahu immediately accused Hamas and Israel started arresting people, raiding homes; killing more than 3 Palestinian boys on the way.

did they offer any proof before they unleashed dogs of war?

I know what you are saying and it comes as no surprise that you would consider it. When all else fails call it a false flag.

I don't say it's a false flag, it's your words.

one would think Israel as a civilized country would follow some basic proceedings, like actually investigating the crime and bringing those responsible to justice.

instead they are punishing those who they accused are responsible and those who they didn't accuse and who are not responsible.

makes sense.

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: CommandoJoe

your country is responsible for deaths of thousands civilians yet you find yourself or your country credible to speak out on the issue of "terrorism"/terrorism.?

My country is not Israel if that is what you are implying - I'm not an Israeli citizen or even Jewish, just living here for work... Easy mistake to make I don't always clarify my status in every different thread, as I get tired of repeating myself, so I don't hold that against you. Maybe I'll add a signature or something. Anyway, I'm an American and my country has killed far more people than Israel ever has... Not something I'm proud of by any means as I can't stand my government. It is so beyond corrupt that it's almost funny. But I'm sure all that is being discussed in many other threads here...

Are you denying that Hamas is a terrorist organization? The following countries list Hamas as a terrorist organization:

US
UK
Canada
Australia
Japan
Egypt
European Union
Jordan
Israel - of course
Probably more, but that's all I found off hand.

Anyone with common sense can see that Hamas are terrorists, my country of origin or residence does not change that. In addition, I have oppressed exactly ZERO Palestinians in my lifetime - what is the justification for Hamas to try and kill me and my wife? My credibility to speak about terrorism comes from having to deal with thousands of rockets being fired in my direction, having 15 seconds to get into a bomb shelter when an air raid siren sounds, and being terrorized by the real danger of DEATH at the hands of Hamas... Can you check off any of those boxes? How many in this thread can say, "Terrorists tried to kill me today"?

And what nirvana like land do you hail from? Not that it matters... I don't know of any perfect country or government on this planet. Israel is not perfect, and there are many things here I don't like, but compared to life under Hamas, it's paradise.

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: hellobruce

The Israeli Air Force has dropped approximately 400 tonnes of bombs and missiles on the Gaza Strip over the past two days, a senior official said today.

One hopes the Hamas terrorists have learnt a valuable lesson and stop attacking Israel!

Ah yes nothing like the old killing of innocent children to teach someone a lesson

Your comment is sick

stop firing rockets into Israel, and Israel will stop bombing Gaza......it's really simple.....the Hamas leaders don't give a damn about the children....it happens over and over, ever since Hamas took control...no attacks on Israel, no attacks on Gaza

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: hellobruce

a reply to: CommandoJoe

where is the proof that Hamas is responsible for killing of the boys?

why did Israel accused Hamas, arrested hundreds of people and killed Palestinian teenagers?

why didn't Israel investigate the crime to find those responsible and bring them to justice?

Hamas was accused because they are the most likely perpetrator, and that is exactly the type of thing they like to do... I can't speak to the specifics, but I know that weapons and explosives were found in some of the searches and those people would definitely be arrested. Others may be arrested on suspicion, questioned for info and released. The problem is you will never hear about those details on the MSM because it's not a sexy sensational headline and nobody cares...

Israel's goal wasn't to go into the West Bank and kill Palestinians - as I've said many times here, if they wanted to do this, there would be a lot more dead. Israel has the capability. The reason for some of the deaths is that groups of Palestinians start throwing stones at the IDF - sorry, but it's pretty stupid to attack soldiers carrying guns. If an angry mob tried to stone me and I had a gun, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot. I dare anyone to just stand there and let someone stone you to death and not use your gun. Though often times that is exactly what the IDF has to do as they don't want the bad press. They will try less than lethal methods, but that doesn't always work and an escalation is needed...

What makes you think they are not investigating? It won't make the news as there are bigger events going on right now, but have no doubt they want to bring the specific people to justice - the parents of the murdered teens won't let them forget about it.

a reply to: buster2010

Not to mention even if Hamas didn't fire rockets Israel would arrange something themselves so they would have a reason to attack Gaza.

You do not understand the situation buster. You have never been to Gaza.

So the Iron Dome intercepted 16 out of 85 rockets. Man we sure wasted our money on that POS didn't we.

They calculate the trajectory of the missiles fired from Gaza. They only engage the missiles that are headed to major populated centers.
Since these missiles are fired indiscriminately, most of them just end up landing in fields/unpopulated areas.
They do this because, like you said, it's expensive.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: hellobruce

The Israeli Air Force has dropped approximately 400 tonnes of bombs and missiles on the Gaza Strip over the past two days, a senior official said today.

One hopes the Hamas terrorists have learnt a valuable lesson and stop attacking Israel!

Ah yes nothing like the old killing of innocent children to teach someone a lesson

Your comment is sick

stop firing rockets into Israel, and Israel will stop bombing Gaza......it's really simple.....the Hamas leaders don't give a damn about the children....it happens over and over, ever since Hamas took control...no attacks on Israel, no attacks on Gaza

I think that Palestinians do care for their children, so much so that they don't want them to grow up in an apartheid state. Would you like your children to grow up in a place that they are segregated and bombed by a more militarily advance nation? Would you like to be looked upon as sub human and have your land robbed by people who had no connection to the land while the international community looks on doing nothing about it? Ask yourself those questions and see what your answers would be.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

in your opinion it is justified to collectively punish a group for a crime that they don't even know who committed it?

Hamas and Fatah had just formed unified Palestinian government in May so why would Hamas or anyone from Palestinian side do anything to endanger that?

it's only Israel that benefits from escalation.

still, no proof from Israel.

you cannot justify actions of Israel.

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: CommandoJoe

in your opinion it is justified to collectively punish a group for a crime that they don't even know who committed it?

Hamas and Fatah had just formed unified Palestinian government in May so why would Hamas or anyone from Palestinian side do anything to endanger that?

it's only Israel that benefits from escalation.

still, no proof from Israel.

you cannot justify actions of Israel.

I've never said I agree with everything Israel does. But I DO expect them to respond to missiles launched into Israel at ME and others living here.

Hamas has showed time and again that they don't act rationally. Why would they do so now?

And how exactly does Israel benefit from this escalation?

You really haven't addressed any of my points posted in this thread, so does that mean you agree with them? All you seem to come back with is Israel = bad

originally posted by: demus
you cannot justify actions of Israel.

Yes you can very easily - somehow you like to keep ignoring the rockets the Hamas terrorists have been launching at Israel since Hamas was formed, but when Israel dares to defend itself you blame them for Hamas using human shields to defend their rocket sites!

If you had your way Israel would just have to sit and do nothing whilst Hamas terrorists launch as many rockets as they can at Israel - as apparently Jews are not allowed to defend themselves from terrorist attack!

Could you imagine this situation if the United States wasn't Israels lap dog? I doubt Israel would behave the way it does.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

my question to you and others is:

why is it allowed for Israel to collectively punish a group of people (punish means - imprison, abuse, kill) for the crime they didn't even investigate?

I am not saying Hamas is not firing rockets, they are - that much is obvious.

it is also obvious that Israel didn't try and investigate the abduction of teenagers but decided to ACT with no evidence whatsoever against "the enemy".

how Israel benefits?

well, I mentioned that in May UNITED PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT was finally formed.

don't you think that it is somehow connected with this escalation as Israel won't allow unified Palestine and will do anything to stop the peace process between Palestinians themselves.

divide and conquer.

you guys are either blind or have a veil over you eyes.

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: CommandoJoe

my question to you and others is:

why is it allowed for Israel to collectively punish a group of people (punish means - imprison, abuse, kill) for the crime they didn't even investigate?

I assume you mean the kidnapping and murder of the 3 Israeli teens? I already addressed this in a previous post

I am not saying Hamas is not firing rockets, they are - that much is obvious.

And what do you propose Israel do about these rockets? Nothing?

it is also obvious that Israel didn't try and investigate the abduction of teenagers but decided to ACT with no evidence whatsoever against "the enemy".

Why do you say this is obvious? Part of the investigation process is to detain people and then question them... If Israel was to arrest a bunch of people, line them up and shoot them all in the back of the head, then you have cause to claim no investigation and just punishment. As I said before you will not hear about the details related to this part because the MSM doesn't care and won't report on it. War is the big news at the moment, not a murder investigation. And so many get their news from the MSM which is unfortunate because they only tell a very small part of the story. They pick out what brings in the ratings...

how Israel benefits?

well, I mentioned that in May UNITED PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT was finally formed.

don't you think that it is somehow connected with this escalation as Israel won't allow unified Palestine and will do anything to stop the peace process between Palestinians themselves.

divide and conquer.

you guys are either blind or have a veil over you eyes.

I still don't see this as any big benefit to Israel unless you are operating on the premise that Israel enjoys putting their soldiers in harms way by occupying the West Bank and having Hamas continue to launch missiles...
And I don't think Israel should have to work with Hamas until they swear off all violence. Why should anyone have to negotiate with terrorists? If they agreed to a cease fire and turned over all their weapons, then I say Israel really needs to work with them and figure something out - but as long as they continue to put MY life in danger, nope... Call me prejudiced, but I take it personal when someone tries to kill me.

can you imagine what we would do if mexican cartels started lobbing missiles into texas? last time someone did something to us we wiped the governments and armies of two nations off the face of the earth in less than 72 hours. and we were showing restraint. Israel has every right to waffle stomp the nasty out of Hamas.

Let's post a hypothetical here.

I live on my property. I have a garden which I use to feed my family. My neighbor moves in, and he decides that my property now belongs to him. He proceeds to destroy my garden. This frustrates me so I do what little I can to stop him. I start throwing rocks. He in turn storms my home and proceeds to unload a machine gun at my family.

Is my neighbor "defending himself"? Or did he perpetrate the exact violence set against him?

This is my big problem with Israel. It directly creates the problem it faces, and yet whenever Palestinians try and defend THEMSELVES.. they are labeled "terrorists" and monsters. Why? Like it or not.. Hamas is the democratically elected government of the Palestinian people. And lets not forget who created Hamas in the first place.

I also hold very little faith that it is they who are firing these rockets into Israel. First things first, Mossad agents have been caught red handed doing this very thing in the past to instigate this sort of response. Secondly.. these rockets are doing little to no damage. And they know this (Hamas). So if it is them (which I'm not saying it isn't).. why would they bother?

For me personally.. this whole situation has no bearing on my life. But I must say I honestly get VERY angry when I read the MSM and see the blatant lopsidedness of this situation. Israel kills over 100 civilians and its merely a passing point. But suddenly a rocket gets fired from Lebanon and WOAH.. STOP THE PRESSES. We all know who controls the MSM so its not really a surprise there. But when you go to a site like CNN and post comments, you are bombarded by Megaphone.. and the most unintelligent people I've ever had the displeasure to come across. While they champion Israel, and claim Israel is in the right.. they post the most blatantly racist remarks. "Kill them all", "They are savages", "One less scum" etc etc etc. It's baffling how we (the United States) blindly follow this little rogue state around like a lost puppy. This place that is no bigger than New Jersey.. yet causes SO many problems around the world... It just confuses me to no end.

Does Israel have a right to exist? Yes. But so does Palestine. Does Israel have a right to defend itself? Yes.. but again.. so does Palestine. The big problem is.. only one of the two have a standing army. And only one of the two are slaughtering the other.

originally posted by: criticalhit
Seriously, this debate has become retarded.

The fault of the situation isn't Israel or the Palestinians it comes from RIGHT HERE IN THE WEST mainly via America butting it's nose in.

But many in US congress are dual citizens of Israel or Zionist Christians who believe they are to serve the jews. Joe Biden admitted that he is a Zionist. Watch the Youtube clip. That's why the US keeps helping Israel. It's the only reason they get the USA's help.

Blaming the problem on everyone else is absurd.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

I take it you believe Israel don't need to investigate and offer evidence before deciding who did a crime?

I take it you believe Israel don't need to punish those responsible but unleash collective punishment on group of people?

I am sorry for not addressing every point you made, just want to make it simple.

those are simple questions.

a reply to: demus

Simple questions that have been answered time and time again. You just do not like the answer and continue to ask the questions over and over again expecting a different answer.

originally posted by: DerekJR321

This is my big problem with Israel. It directly creates the problem it faces, and yet whenever Palestinians try and defend THEMSELVES.. they are labeled "terrorists" and monsters. Why?

Because launching missiles at civilians is NOT defending yourself. They are labeled terrorists because they are terrorizing the people of Israel with the threat of DEATH by high explosives contained in the warheads of said missiles... Or the added nails, ball bearings, shrapnel, etc. They have caused death in the past and will likely cause deaths in the future.

Like it or not.. Hamas is the democratically elected government of the Palestinian people. And lets not forget who created Hamas in the first place.

I always laugh when I see this one posted. Hamas won the election through threats, intimidation, and violence. They would shoot their political opponents in the legs and throw them off the nearest high rise building. They ran their political opposition (Fatah) out of Gaza in an armed gun battle. It's pretty easy to win an election if nobody is around to run against you or everyone is afraid to run against you...
link
link

I also hold very little faith that it is they who are firing these rockets into Israel. First things first, Mossad agents have been caught red handed doing this very thing in the past to instigate this sort of response. Secondly.. these rockets are doing little to no damage. And they know this (Hamas). So if it is them (which I'm not saying it isn't).. why would they bother?

If they are not firing the missiles, then why does Hamas claim responsibility for launching them? LINK
Hamas "bothers" because it creates terror in the population of Israel. There is a real threat of DEATH from the high explosives contained in the war head of the missiles. Life is on hold here - I have 15 seconds to get into my shelter when the air raid siren goes off. The beaches, malls, streets, etc are pretty much deserted here - everyone is staying home to be close to their shelter.
They bother in the hope that they will get lucky - they have in the past and likely will in the future. They hit a car in Ashdod yesterday, but luckily no one was hurt. The odds may be low, but would you want to spin that wheel and be in the vicinity of missile attacks? I bet you'd be glad for Iron dome to be working then...
They bother because it forces Israel to react, and then they can capitalize on their civilian deaths make Israel look bad and bring attention to the "cause".

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: CommandoJoe

I take it you believe Israel don't need to investigate and offer evidence before deciding who did a crime?

I take it you believe Israel don't need to punish those responsible but unleash collective punishment on group of people?

I am sorry for not addressing every point you made, just want to make it simple.

those are simple questions.

I never said Israel doesn't need to investigate or offer evidence, and as of yet, no people have been charged or convicted of a crime. There are some suspects they are looking for, but that is true of most crimes being investigated in the civilized world... It's not as if Israel has said these specific people are guilty of the murders and when we find them they will be shot in the head, case closed. If they have the evidence someone will be charged and a trial held. Hamas is a prime suspect because this is the type of thing they like to do - they know they can trade one Israeli for many Palestinian prisoners. I do believe the murders could have been committed by someone acting on their own and not something officially engineered by Hamas, either way Hamas is quite happy about it.

I absolutely believe Israel should punish those responsible for the Israeli teens murders as well as the Palestinian teen murdered in Jerusalem by Jewish extremists (who by the way have confessed, are in custody and will be tried for the murder). But if you allege the attacks on Gaza are collective punishment for the Israeli teen murders you are quite wrong - It is a direct result of the heavy rocket fire from Hamas at Israel. If Hamas wasn't launching rockets Israel would have no reason to hit Gaza...

Hamas warns airlines, it will target Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport

Haaretz breaking news

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: demus

Simple questions that have been answered time and time again. You just do not like the answer and continue to ask the questions over and over again expecting a different answer.

yes, true, I am expecting of you to step up and say the truth.

just be a man, take your side.

don't make excuses; if you support state of Israel in it's fight for their national goals why do you need to justify the actions Israel is taking?

if you think Israel has right to do whatever it takes to get more "living space" and so on, say it.

just please don't say: "Israel is only defending"...