The Scoreboard

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: abe froman

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere
Am I pro-Israel? You know what the real Arab/Jew solution is? For them to realize they are the same people and to throw of the false religions that have been their yoke for a thousand years and get rid of their power hungry criminal leaders. Realize that your sad devotion to old fairy tales are what keeps you at each others throats to benefit leaders that are too educated to really believe the nonsense you sacrifice your and your children's lives for. Sadly it seems that the desert which spawned most of the religions that bring such destruction and chaos continues to spawn fanatics on both sides. They both claim to follow the same god for chrissakes! The Christian/Islam/Jewish nonsense is the scourage of humanity, if it was up to me I would wipe out every vestige of every one of those false satanic religions and we would have peace. In the absence of peace the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Jews just want Israel, the muslims want the world.

You know the true foundation of each of these religion teaches peace and compassion .

If their were no religion do you think the world would be a better place ?
Nay ... People would find something to fight about ...
No morals to tame the temptations ..

The real problem is greed and power ...simply put..

No the true foundation of these religions is violence and submission. and the true author of all of these religions,including Islam, is Israel.

So if Islam teaches violence why am I not violent?

Here's something I posted in another thread ...

Let it sink in savvy ?

If you take every death caused by a terrorist attack (including 9/11) over the past 30 years - and then add in everyone killed by mob violence in Islamic countries - it would absolutely pale in comparison to the number of Muslims that have been killed by the American military in the same time period.

In just the Iraq war alone, the US managed to kill nearly a million Iraqis - a large percentage of whom were civilians who had nothing to do with the conflict. Add to that the number of Muslims killed in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, etc in the so-called "War on Terror".

Anyone puzzled why there might be so much hatred towards the US around the Islamic world?

Except the deaths caused by America are a direct response to terrorist attacks. So the deaths are actually caused by the terrorists.

America is far from perfect, but sorry, Muslims as a people are not for peace, and most of them will support terrorism through direct action or silence.

Even Pakistan harbored Bin Laden the entire time pretending like they were friends.

What a crock of $#%& .. Their are 1.5 million Muslims in the world and the percentage of " terrorist " hardly makes a dent !
I am Muslim and I don't support terrorism . in fact I try to educate people about terrorist .
Go read my threads some time.

9/11 was an inside job ... Don't try and change my mind on that.

Here read some facts on terrorism

Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil

www.washingtonsblog.com...

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

They came about before there was any "attack" to justify the deaths of those children.

Also remind me again why using depleted uranium was an appropriate response to 9/11? I was under the impression that chemical warfare was never justified and could be considered a terrorist attack in and of its own right.

Go back and look at my edit. What children are we talking about exactly? If you wish to claim sanctions came about BEFORE Muslim terrorists you are wrong. Flat out 100% wrong. Show me exactly what you are talking about, and look back at my last post I edited.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

They came about before there was any "attack" to justify the deaths of those children.

Also remind me again why using depleted uranium was an appropriate response to 9/11? I was under the impression that chemical warfare was never justified and could be considered a terrorist attack in and of its own right.

Go back and look at my edit. What children are we talking about exactly? If you wish to claim sanctions came about BEFORE Muslim terrorists you are wrong. Flat out 100% wrong. Show me exactly what you are talking about, and look back at my last post I edited.

How about we look at the facts about " terriorst attacks" www.washingtonsblog.com...

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

They came about before there was any "attack" to justify the deaths of those children.

Also remind me again why using depleted uranium was an appropriate response to 9/11? I was under the impression that chemical warfare was never justified and could be considered a terrorist attack in and of its own right.

Go back and look at my edit. What children are we talking about exactly? If you wish to claim sanctions came about BEFORE Muslim terrorists you are wrong. Flat out 100% wrong. Show me exactly what you are talking about, and look back at my last post I edited.

How about we look at the facts about " terriorst attacks" www.washingtonsblog.com...

Red Herring. Address the issues I stated. Red Herrings are perfect when you can't and you want to deflect.
ETA: Just to respond anyways ...

In 2012, all but one of the nine Muslim-American terrorism plots uncovered were halted in early stages. That one, an attempted bombing of a Social Security office in Arizona, caused no casualties.

It's not because Muslims are not planning them, it's because we are far more active in watching them and foiling them. Imagine if we had 900% more Muslim terror attacks?

Maybe we could foil more of the other attacks if we did not have to be so focused on Muslim attacks.
ETA2:
List of foiled attacks by MUSLIMS.
en.wikipedia.org...

34 terror attacks in the UK foiled

Sir John Sawers, the head of MI6, told the committee that the threat from terrorism was rising, and gave recent examples of British citizens killed at home and abroad in Islamist terror attacks, including at the Tigantourine gas facility in Amenas, Algeria, the Westgate shopping mall in Kenya, in Nigeria and also in London with the murder of Lee Rigby.

"We do what we can to disrupt the attacks overseas but some of them get through and the threat overseas is getting greater," Sawers said. He told the MPs that the threats to the country and "our way of life" were diverse and wide-ranging.

"It's not like it was in the cold war. There aren't states out there trying to destroy our government and our way of life … The biggest is terrorism – the threat from al-Qaida and its many, many branches.

www.theguardian.com...

Major terror attack on scale of 7/7 foiled every year in UK, police reveal

Last month, three men were convicted of planning to kill hundreds of people in the UK with up to eight suicide bombers after concluding the 7/7 attacks had “not done enough damage”.

And in 2006 a plot to blow up passenger jets with bombs disguised as soft drinks was foiled but led to tighter restrictions for carry on luggage.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

In case you are not familiar 7/7 was a Muslim attack akin to the US 9/11.

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
Every now and then you come across pics that really make you think.
In light of recent events going on in Israel and Palestine , I thought I would share with ATS
The

Now that you have seen the score how do you feel about this ?
Personally it makes me sick if this pic is true in numbers.
I'll be fully honest I don't know much about the conflict between Israel and Palestine
I have always tried to ignore it sadly . but a very recent event changed that
This past Friday I found out that the 17 year old boy Palestinian boy who was killed in Israel, his family attends the same masjid (mosque) that I do in Sacramento CA, it was very sad to listen to this family mourn the loss of this boy..
Things don't really effect you until they hit home.

So after this event i started to look into this never ending conflict .
I was hoping to spark a healthy discussion on this struggle within this land .

Who is wrong , who is right ?

Do you think their will ever be peace ?

Is this truly a genocide?

Settlement issues ?

And anything els that might be revelent to this topic.

At the end of this thread I hope to gain knowledge on the conflict and form an opinion.
I don't know where els on the Internet I can get pro ,con, neutral opnions on such a subject other then ATS .

thanks in advance , and sorry if this pic offends anyone.

Humbly

LSH

SOURCE

ETA: If you're going to figures .............................. get them right

Cody

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

nice logic there!

if they attack you they are to be blamed.

if you respond they are to be blamed.

if you attack them they are to be blamed.

if you intentionally provoke them, suffered attack and responded with disproportionate force they are to be blamed.

if you support and finance them and instigate attacks on yourself they are to be blamed.

if they do not attack and you attack they are to be blamed.

...

the discussion is pointless if you will never acknowledge bad deeds of the option you support.

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

nice logic there!

if they attack you they are to be blamed.

if you respond they are to be blamed.

That's right. Who else would be blamed for THEM attacking or a response due to THEM attacking?

if you attack them they are to be blamed.

Can you show me any instances where Israel attacked when there were no Palestinian attacks first? Didn't think so.

if you intentionally provoke them, suffered attack and responded with disproportionate force they are to be blamed.

Provoke them how? By existing? Hamas' stated goal was to eradicate Israel, that is who Palestine chose to lead them.

if you support and finance them and instigate attacks on yourself they are to be blamed.

So if I anonymously give you $100 to attack me then you do it you are not to be blamed? How about .. you don't attack? It's pretty simple. Are you suggesting Palestinians want peace so badly all you have to do is give them some money and they will gladly launch rockets? Real peaceful.

if they do not attack and you attack they are to be blamed.

Doesn't happen. Dare you to show me.

...

the discussion is pointless if you will never acknowledge bad deeds of the option you support.

Israel is not perfect, they make mistakes. I just understand the position they are in and the position is caused by Palestine. So as I said, when Palestine becomes actually peaceful, stops launching rockets to kill Israeli citizens, then we can talk.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Sorry bro , i just don't believe the "foild attack BS" I think its all propaganda to keep people in fear and strip rights .



The real attacks are the ones that happen , even then its questionable.

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Sorry bro , i just don't believe the "foild attack BS" I think its all propaganda to keep people in fear and strip rights .



The real attacks are the ones that happen , even then its questionable.

Haha so even though the people who planned the attack are CAUGHT and in jail you don't believe it because you don't want to. Hilarious how you avoid anything that contradicts your worldview. How about the ACTUAL attacks I posted that take place by Muslims against other cultures all over the world? Asia, Europe, Africa, The Americas. Why is it they are the only group in the whole world that does this, why are Muslims the only group that attacks everyone else? Or are you still avoiding that because you choose not to believe that too?

a reply to: cody599


Hey Cody I did post Facts on page one that were not bias

However we can't say the same about your charts can we ?

Note on the following two tables: these figures are not complete. They are based on data from the Israeli foreign ministry and the list of 1,038 attacks at "Chronology of terrorist attacks in Israel". The "Chronology" list is known to be incomplete for some years. For annual data, where two figures are given for fatalities, the first is from the Israeli foreign ministry and the second figure (in parenthesis) is for only those attacks listed individually in the "Chronology" list. Data on injuries, particularly before 1968, is also incomplete. For monthly data, only data from the "Chronology" list is included. Data for terrorist attacks outside Israel is not included.

That's listed right on the front page of the link you provided..


Next !

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

like I said: yours (and not only yours) logic is rather ignorant...

I just highlighted some points, I hope you don't mind: hypocrisy alert!

Can you show me any instances where Israel attacked when there were no Palestinian attacks first?

Provoke them how? By existing?

So if I anonymously give you $100 to attack me then you do it you are not to be blamed?

the position they are in and the position is caused by Palestine.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Sorry bro , i just don't believe the "foild attack BS" I think its all propaganda to keep people in fear and strip rights .



The real attacks are the ones that happen , even then its questionable.

Haha so even though the people who planned the attack are CAUGHT and in jail you don't believe it because you don't want to. Hilarious how you avoid anything that contradicts your worldview. How about the ACTUAL attacks I posted that take place by Muslims against other cultures all over the world? Asia, Europe, Africa, The Americas. Why is it they are the only group in the whole world that does this, why are Muslims the only group that attacks everyone else? Or are you still avoiding that because you choose not to believe that too?

Yup its all Muslims they are the problems right?




Sorry you take everything you see on the news as truth ...

I prefer to see through the bull S@#$

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

At least 240 people have been killed and more than 140,000 displaced since June 2012. Most of the victims have been members of Myanmar's Muslim minority, estimated to be about 5 percent of the population. Around 300 Buddhists rode motorcycles around Myanmar's second largest city of Mandalay on Friday, shouting death threats.

Myanmar Buddhists threaten death to Muslims in Mandalay unrest

Hardline Buddhists attack Muslim towns in Sri Lanka

ALUTHGAMA, SRI LANKA—Hardline Buddhists hurled Molotov cocktails and looted homes and businesses in several Muslim towns in Sri Lanka, killing three Muslims and seriously wounding more than 50 people in the overnight attacks, authorities said Monday.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Muslim extremist attacks.

December 22, 2001 American Airlines Flight 63 A man was put into custody after attempting to detonate a shoe bomb.[1] Paris to Miami Richard Colvin Reid Serving a life sentence without parole [2]

May 8, 2002 ? A man was arrested after returning from Pakistan for allegedly attempting to build a dirty bomb.[3] Chicago, Illinois José Padilla Sentenced to 17 years in prison [4]

September 2002 ? A group of six Yemeni-Americans were arrested for allegedly providing material support for al-Qaeda and running a terrorist cell in Buffalo [5] Buffalo, New York Lackawanna Six Each sentenced to 10 years of prison or less[6]

March 13, 2003 Brooklyn Bridge A man was arrested and accused of giving aid to al-Qaeda and attempting to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge [7] Columbus, Ohio Iyman Faris Sentenced to 20 years in Prison [8]

June 2003 ? Eleven members of the Virginia Jihad Network were arrested and accused of training for holy war around the globe.[9] Northern Virginia Ali al-Timimi, Ali Asad Chandia, et al. All sentenced to 20 or less years in prison [10]

August 2004 New York Stock Exchange, World Bank, International Monetary Fund, Security in the United States was put on high alert after a plot to destroy the New York Stock Exchange and other financial institutions in New Jersey and Washington surfaces.[11] United Kingdom Dhiren Barot Sentenced to life in prison [12]

August 28, 2004 34th Street-Herald Square subway station Two men were arrested after attempting to bomb the New York City Subway on the day before the 2004 Republican National Convention[13] New York, New York Shahawar Matin Siraj and James Elshafay Sentenced to 30 years in prison [14]

August 2004 Pakistani diplomat Two men were arrested at an Albany mosque after attempting to gain possession of a shoulder-fired grenade launcher to assassinate a Pakistani diplomat.[15] Albany, New York Yassin Aref and Mohammed Hossain Both sentenced to 15 years in prison [16]

Bush administration (Second term)
Date Target Description Arrest location Suspect(s) Status
June 2005 ? A man and his father were arrested after lying to the FBI about involvement in a jihadist camp in Pakistan.[17] Lodi, California Hamid and Umer Hayat Hamid was sentenced to 24 years in prison [18]

August 2005 Los Angeles-area military bases, synagogues and other places Four men running an Islamic prison gang were arrested after allegedly attempting to destroy Los Angeles-area places.[19] Los Angeles, California Kevin James, et al. James sentenced to 16 years in prison [20]

December 2005 Williams Natural Gas (Wyoming), Transcontinental Pipeline, Standard Oil refinery A man was arrested on suspicion that he had plans to destroy several sites.[21] Pennsylvania Michael Curtis Reynolds Sentenced to 30 years in prison [22]

February 2006 Troops in Iraq, Toledo, Ohio citizens Three men were arrested for allegedly planning to build bombs for use by terrorists in Iraq.[23] Toledo, Ohio Mohammad Zaki Amawi, et al. Amawi was sentenced to 20 years in prison, the others 13 and 8 years, respectively.[24]

April 2006 Washington D.C.-area buildings Two men from the U.S. state of Georgia, were arrested after videotaping Washington-area buildings and sending the tapes to a London based jihadist website.[25] Toronto, Ontario Syed Haris Ahmed and Ehsanul Islam Sadequee Ahmed sentenced to 13 years in prison, Sadequee sentenced to 17.[26]

June 2006 Sears Tower and FBI offices Seven men were arrested after allegedly plotting to bomb Sears Tower and FBI offices.[27] Miami, Florida, Atlanta, Georgia Narseal Batiste, et al. Five of the men were convicted. Batiste was sentenced to 13 years in prison.[28]

July 2006 PATH tunnels A man was arrested after allegedly attempting to bomb New York and New Jersey subway tunnels and flood the financial district.[29] New York, New York Assem Hammoud

May 7, 2007 Fort Dix Six men were arrested after attempting an attack on the Fort Dix military base.[30] Fort Dix, New Jersey Dritan Duka, et al. Four of the men received life sentences, one man received five years in prison and the other received 33 [31]

June 3, 2007 John F. Kennedy International Airport Four men were arrested in New York after a plot is revealed to bomb the fuel line of JFK airport.[32] New York, New York Abdul Kadir, et al.

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

like I said: yours (and not only yours) logic is rather ignorant...

I just highlighted some points, I hope you don't mind: hypocrisy alert!

Can you show me any instances where Israel attacked when there were no Palestinian attacks first?

Provoke them how? By existing?

So if I anonymously give you $100 to attack me then you do it you are not to be blamed?

the position they are in and the position is caused by Palestine.

Except my point is Palestinians launch rockets and start it. You did not show that to be false. So what was your point?

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Sorry bro , i just don't believe the "foild attack BS" I think its all propaganda to keep people in fear and strip rights .



The real attacks are the ones that happen , even then its questionable.

Haha so even though the people who planned the attack are CAUGHT and in jail you don't believe it because you don't want to. Hilarious how you avoid anything that contradicts your worldview. How about the ACTUAL attacks I posted that take place by Muslims against other cultures all over the world? Asia, Europe, Africa, The Americas. Why is it they are the only group in the whole world that does this, why are Muslims the only group that attacks everyone else? Or are you still avoiding that because you choose not to believe that too?

Yup its all Muslims they are the problems right?

Sorry you take everything you see on the news as truth ...

I prefer to see through the bull S@#$

That's called propaganda. They are a State Sponsor of Terrorism. Therefore everywhere terrorists attack Iran has supported that. So if you wish to counter my FACTS with propaganda and lies you are welcome to do so .. you will of course look a fool posting internet memes to counteract facts.

ETA: These are a FEW of the numerous attacks Iran has been a part of.
India

In July 2012, The Times of India reported that New Delhi police have concluded that terrorists belonging to a branch of Iran’s military, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, were responsible for an attack on 13 February 2012, during which a bomb explosion targeted an Israeli diplomat in New Delhi, India, wounding one embassy staff member, a local employee, and two passers-by. According to the report, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards may have planned other attacks on Israeli targets around the world as well.[12][13]


The 1982-1983 Tyre headquarters bombings
The blowing up of a van filled with explosives in front of the U.S. embassy in Beirut killing 58 Americans and Lebanese in 1983.
The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing of the U.S. Marine and French 'Drakkar' barracks which killed 241 American and 58 French peacekeepers. On May 30, 2003, a U.S. federal judge ruled that Hezbollah carried out the attack at the direction of the Iranian government.[16]
The hijacking of TWA flight 847 holding the 39 Americans on board hostage for weeks in 1985 and murder of one U.S. Navy sailor
The bombing of the Israeli Embassy killing twenty-nine in 1992
The bombing of a Jewish community center in Argentina killing 95 in 1994

Kenya

Aggrey Adoli, Kenya's police chief in Kenya's coastal region, said on 22 June 2012 that two Iranians, Ahmad Abolfathi Mohammad and Sayed Mansour Mousavi, believed to members of Iran's Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force,[33] were arrested and suspected of being involved in terrorism. One of the Iranians led counter-terrorism officers to recover 15 kilograms of a powdery substance believed to be explosive.[34] The two Iranians allegedly admitted to plotting to attack United States, Israeli, Saudi, or British targets in Kenya.[33] In court, Police Sgt. Erick Opagal, an investigator with Kenya's Anti-Terrorism Police Unit, said that the two Iranians had shipped over 100 kilograms of powerful explosives into Kenya.[35]

It was later revealed that the targets included Gil Haskel, Israel's ambassador to Kenya. During a visit to Kenya in August, Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon praised Kenya for its efforts in stopping Iranian terror threats against Israeli and Jewish targets. Uganda, Ethiopia, and Kenya all expressed concern with Ayalon regarding Iran's attempts to increase terror activity in Africa.[36]

September 11

The U.S. indictment of bin Laden filed in 1998 stated that al-Qaeda "forged alliances . . . with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezbollah for the purpose of working together against their perceived common enemies."[38] On May 31, 2001, Steven Emerson and Daniel Pipes wrote in The Wall Street Journal that "Officials of the Iranian government helped arrange advanced weapons and explosives training for Al-Qaeda personnel in Lebanon where they learned, for example, how to destroy large buildings."[39]

The 9/11 Commission Report stated that 8 to 10 of the hijackers on 9/11 passed through Iran and their travel was facilitated by Iranian border guards.[38][40] The report also noted that "a senior operative of Hezbollah" (Imad Mughniyah) was on the flights that convoyed the future hijackers from Saudi Arabia to Tehran, along with associates that Kenneth Timmerman describes as "Iranian agents".[40][41] The extent of Iranian involvement has been questioned due to major differences between the religious ideologies of Iran and al Qaeda;[42] according to the 9/11 Commission report, Mughniyah's presence on flights carrying the hijackers to Iran may have been a "remarkable coincidence."[40] After the commission called for "further investigation" into a possible Iranian role in the attacks, President George W. Bush demanded that Iran sever its ties with al-Qaeda, while saying that in his view, "There was no direct connection between Iran and the attacks of September 11."[41]

Judge George B. Daniels ruled in a federal district court in Manhattan that Iran bears legal responsibility for providing "material support" to the 9/11 plotters and hijackers in Havlish, et al. v. Osama bin Laden, Iran, et al.[43][44] Included in Judge Daniels' findings was that Iran "used front companies to obtain a Boeing 757-767-777 flight simulator for training the terrorists", Ramzi bin al-Shibh traveled to Iran in January 2001, and an Iranian government memorandum from May 14, 2001 demonstrates Iranian culpability in planning the attacks.[43] Defectors from Iran’s intelligence service testified that Iranian officials had "foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks."[42]
Riyadh compound bombings

According to Seth G. Jones and Peter Bergen, the 2003 Riyadh compound bombings were planned by al Qaeda operatives in Iran, with apparent Iranian complicity.[45][46]

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

At least 240 people have been killed and more than 140,000 displaced since June 2012. Most of the victims have been members of Myanmar's Muslim minority, estimated to be about 5 percent of the population. Around 300 Buddhists rode motorcycles around Myanmar's second largest city of Mandalay on Friday, shouting death threats.

Myanmar Buddhists threaten death to Muslims in Mandalay unrest

Hardline Buddhists attack Muslim towns in Sri Lanka

ALUTHGAMA, SRI LANKA—Hardline Buddhists hurled Molotov cocktails and looted homes and businesses in several Muslim towns in Sri Lanka, killing three Muslims and seriously wounding more than 50 people in the overnight attacks, authorities said Monday.

Can you show me WORLDWIDE Buddhist violence, or do you think violence in a very small region somehow compares to WORLDWIDE muslim violence against ALL people? Can you show me the near 100 terror attacks foiled in the US and UK alone plotted by buddhists?

If your point was there are extremists in all groups, no one denies that. The problem is that Muslim extremists are not some small localized minorities, they are a majority and a worldwide thread who have one goal, bringing about a worldwide Muslim rule by bloodshed.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

This is my opinion as a guy with Israeli citizenship, a been there, seen it, done it, bought the T-shirt sort of thing, I hope it helps you form an intelligent opinion on this madness.

Who is wrong , who is right ?

Both sides are right, and both sides are wrong.

Israel (The present government NOT the people) are too heavy handed in their responses, but they are using surgical strikes as opposed to sending the ground forces and causing more deaths than necessary in order to protect the innocent civilians.

Palestine is a very complicated place, it's politics are rife with inter-fighting between various factions, to elect Hamas into government was IMHO madness. If they want peace, stop throwing rockets into Israel and talk peace, do they have a reason to so angry ? Of course they do. But until they stop attacking Israel Israel will respond in kind.

Let me put it like this, If I met you in street and I had a rock in my hand and chose to start to throw it at you, then you pulled a Magnum 44 on me, I'd drop the rock and run. The Palestinian would still throw it and be surprised when you fired at him.

Not his fault I may add, they are brought up to hate Israel and to fight, this generation knows nothing of peace. just conflict. A sad but true fact.

Do you think their will ever be peace ?

Not in my lifetime, there are those that will say after the inhalation of Israel there will be peace, but is wiping a country off the face of the earth peace ? I don't think so
Peace will happen when the Palestinians rise as one and decide to stop fighting a futile war, and start working together for it. If Israel has nothing to react to, it won't react.

Is this truly a genocide?

No
It is Israel reacting to attacks, you'll notice the word reacting NOT instigating.

Settlement issues ?

This is a very complicated issue
Here is a personal account of the settlement issues, I was stationed for a while at a settlement called Bat Ayin



You'll notice there is no fence around this settlement, the reason is simple, the settlers that live there are for want of a better word nutters. The locals are terrified of them.

As with so many conflicts the land was taken during a war, the spoils of war so to speak, England did the same to Northern Ireland albeit hundreds of years ago.

To the right of the second picture is a vineyard, I was asked to remove an Arabic family that were having a picnic there, I saw no real potential threat and felt it a bit harsh, but I went anyway. I spoke to said family and even shared in their food, (it was delicious). Turned out that the land belonged to this family, they still held the deeds they told me.

But they lost the land in the 6 day war, all they wanted was to eat in peace on what they considered to be their land, but the settlers considered to be theirs as well. Who was right and who was wrong I don't really know. But I did leave them to enjoy their picnic in peace.
Cost me a major bollocking but it made happy.

I hope that personal account helps you understand the issue a bit more.

Great OP by the way if a tad mileading S&F

Cody

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
a reply to: cody599


Hey Cody I did post Facts on page one that were not bias

However we can't say the same about your charts can we ?

Note on the following two tables: these figures are not complete. They are based on data from the Israeli foreign ministry and the list of 1,038 attacks at "Chronology of terrorist attacks in Israel". The "Chronology" list is known to be incomplete for some years. For annual data, where two figures are given for fatalities, the first is from the Israeli foreign ministry and the second figure (in parenthesis) is for only those attacks listed individually in the "Chronology" list. Data on injuries, particularly before 1968, is also incomplete. For monthly data, only data from the "Chronology" list is included. Data for terrorist attacks outside Israel is not included.

That's listed right on the front page of the link you provided..


Next !

My apologies I missed that in a knee jerk reaction to the OP very unATS of me

Incomplete indeed

That would make the figures higher in real life wouldn't it

Cody

a reply to: cody599

Very unusual. A well thought out and informed opinion. It greatly mirrors my own thoughts, having not been there, but studied the issue a lot.

It's definitely incredibly complex, might be why so many people here have so many problems with it, they want black and white when it's mostly just grey and gray.