The Scoreboard

Every now and then you come across pics that really make you think.
In light of recent events going on in Israel and Palestine , I thought I would share with ATS
The
Now that you have seen the score how do you feel about this ?
Personally it makes me sick if this pic is true in numbers.
I'll be fully honest I don't know much about the conflict between Israel and Palestine
I have always tried to ignore it sadly . but a very recent event changed that
This past Friday I found out that the 17 year old boy Palestinian boy who was killed in Israel, his family attends the same masjid (mosque) that I do in Sacramento CA, it was very sad to listen to this family mourn the loss of this boy..
Things don't really effect you until they hit home.

So after this event i started to look into this never ending conflict .
I was hoping to spark a healthy discussion on this struggle within this land .

Who is wrong , who is right ?

Do you think their will ever be peace ?

Is this truly a genocide?

Settlement issues ?

And anything els that might be revelent to this topic.

At the end of this thread I hope to gain knowledge on the conflict and form an opinion.
I don't know where els on the Internet I can get pro ,con, neutral opnions on such a subject other then ATS .

thanks in advance , and sorry if this pic offends anyone.

Humbly

LSH

Actually youd need to blame the PLO and yasser arafatt. Both of which said they would sacrifice all palestinians if it meant egypt getting its land back. considerng that modern palestinians are not even genetically related to the caananites actually.

It is the very definition of genocide.

Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group via the (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

There is absolutely no justification for the way they are dealing with the Palestinians.

They scream anti-semite and get away with murder literally. They use the media to confuse anyone who does not pay attention to Israels actions and simply take the word of the agenda driven media.

Zionists are not real Jewish people, for real Jewish people are peaceful and have lived peacefully with Christians and Muslims alike.

Zionists Supremecists are the problem and they will shortly be on here screaming about how innocent they are, while maintaining an open air prison in Gaza, consistent murdering of Palestinians in more form than one, white phosphorous is a great example. A gestapo known as the Mossad. Mandatory brainwashing/morality destroying indoctrination in the form of the IDF

USS liberty and the Lavon affair are good examples of what extent they will go to get things their way. aka false flags

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair]

As part of the false flag operation,[1] a group of Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli military intelligence for plans to plant bombs inside Egyptian, American and British-owned civilian targets, cinemas, libraries and American educational centers. The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, "unspecified malcontents" or "local nationalists" with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt's Suez Canal zone.[2] The operation caused no casualties, except for those terrorists of the cell who committed suicide after being captured.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_(AGTR-5)]

On the afternoon of 8 June 1967, while in international waters off the northern coast of the Sinai Peninsula, Liberty was attacked and damaged by the Israel Defense Forces; 34 crewmen were killed and 174 wounded. Although severely damaged with a 39-foot-wide (12 m) by 24-foot-high (7.3 m) hole amidships and a twisted keel, Liberty’s crew kept her afloat, and she was able to leave the area under her own power.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Whats really sickening is the way Palestinians casually throw their children into the meat grinder, the real crime here is the sending of their own12 and 13 year olds into the fray to do their fighting for them and then blaming Israel for their dead children. Cowardly hiding weapons in schools and hospitals to make casualties and martyrs of their own people.

a reply to: [post=18112414]LightningStrikesHere

That is a very slanted, very poor attempt at keeping score. This is political propaganda. If the Israel/ Palestinian situation is as lopsided as so many suggest, why not use real numbers?

originally posted by: abe froman
Whats really sickening is the way Palestinians casually throw their children into the meat grinder, the real crime here is the sending of their own12 and 13 year olds into the fray to do their fighting for them and then blaming Israel for their dead children. Cowardly hiding weapons in schools and hospitals to make casualties and martyrs of their own people.

I hardly believe that's the case , what parent would raise a kid to an age of 12 or 13 and send them off to possibly be killed or hurt or imprisoned?

And please don't say its because of "religion" ,nothing in Islam permits such action .

Blaming "Israel" you say?

Is it not the state of Israel or government laws put in place that have causes outrage ?
They are most definitely pulling the trigger ..

a reply to: abe froman

Sources please, that is quite the charge to make so I am sure you can dig up something to verify this. If true that truly is sickening. Right on par with using white phosporous... multiple times

originally posted by: onthedownlow
a reply to: [post=18112414]LightningStrikesHere

That is a very slanted, very poor attempt at keeping score. This is political propaganda. If the Israel/ Palestinian situation is as lopsided as so many suggest, why not use real numbers?

Of those killed in the conflict, 4,228 have been Palestinians, 1,024 Israelis, and 63 foreign citizens. For every person killed, approximately seven were also injured. 3/

A total of 971 children have been killed in Israeli-Palestinian conflict violence, representing 18% of the total number of conflict deaths. Children are protected, in a number of legal instruments, including the Convention on the Rights of the Child, against arbitrary loss of life, even in armed conflict.

Of the overall number of children killed, 88% were Palestinian and 12 % were Israeli.The trend of child deaths mirrors the total rate: the number of Israeli children killed has declined markedly while that of Palestinian children remains high.

Palestinian children make up 20% of the total Palestinian deaths while Israeli children represent 12% of total Israeli deaths.

In 2006, 31% of the Palestinian children killed were 12 years or younger. 8/ The vast majority of children died as a result of injuries sustained either to the head, chest or to more than one place of their body. 9/

unispal.un.org...


If you noted in the OP I said " if the numbers are true"

My point of the thread was to gather information and opinion.

The fact remains that their is a higher mortality rate for Palestinians.

a reply to: elementalgrove It's Hamas this one is just one of many - Hamas hides its foot soldiers and weapons in homes, schools, mosques, and hospitals, ensuring that, despite Israel’s warnings to the Palestinian people to avoid the company of terrorists, its targeting of individual terrorists and weapons caches will unavoidably cause the collateral damage of civilian death.




and this one about children used in battle by palestinelink
What kind of a society consciously and purposely sacrifices its own youth for political gain and tactical advantage? Suicide bombers are an escalation of a small-arms war introduced during the first Intifada (1987-1993 Palestinian’s uprising) and championed by Palestinian leaders, even prior to Arafat’s arrival from Tunis in July 1994. Today the overwhelming majority of Palestinian Arabs nurture a blind hatred of Israel. They created a cultural milieu of vengeance, violence and death – preparing their children to be sacrifices in a death cult. Proud parents dress up their toddlers not in clown costumes, but with suicide belts,1 and countless others celebrate their children’s deaths with traditional sweet holiday cakes and candies.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Thank you!!

I did notice the comments in you OP. My opinion is that Israel is losing the propaganda war, but I am also of the opinion that Israel will continue to come out ahead in this ongoing conflict.

a reply to: abe froman

Arrogance, wow!

originally posted by: onthedownlow
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Thank you!!

I did notice the comments in you OP. My opinion is that Israel is losing the propaganda war, but I am also of the opinion that Israel will continue to come out ahead in this ongoing conflict.

Your welcome , sorry i should have posted figures :/

a reply to: November5 Yep when you use your own women and children as cannon fodder it really makes your wounded/killed stats go up.

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: elementalgrove It's Hamas this one is just one of many - Hamas hides its foot soldiers and weapons in homes, schools, mosques, and hospitals, ensuring that, despite Israel’s warnings to the Palestinian people to avoid the company of terrorists, its targeting of individual terrorists and weapons caches will unavoidably cause the collateral damage of civilian death.



and this one about children used in battle by palestinelink What kind of a society consciously and purposely sacrifices its own youth for political gain and tactical advantage? Suicide bombers are an escalation of a small-arms war introduced during the first Intifada (1987-1993 Palestinian’s uprising) and championed by Palestinian leaders, even prior to Arafat’s arrival from Tunis in July 1994. Today the overwhelming majority of Palestinian Arabs nurture a blind hatred of Israel. They created a cultural milieu of vengeance, violence and death – preparing their children to be sacrifices in a death cult. Proud parents dress up their toddlers not in clown costumes, but with suicide belts,1 and countless others celebrate their children’s deaths with traditional sweet holiday cakes and candies.

Allot of the information is propaganda , I am not supporting hammas or the wrongful suicide bombings.. Its disgusting and directly contradictory to what Islam teaches . nor am I trying to justify it.

Who ealse is going to defend against the wrongful actions of Israel?

The Palestinians don't have an army like Israel nor do they have resources .
I mean do you think its OK for someone to come and take your home ? Without warning ?
Walk into your house and say " its mine" ! " leave"!

Do you think its OK ?

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: November5 Yep when you use your own women and children as cannon fodder it really makes your wounded/killed
stats go up.

Guerilla warfare its ugly ! But Israel is not innocent by no means ! The stastics speak for them self's ..

thank you for the thread.
that is one view on reality of this conflict.

expect shills on page 2 - 3, not counting the one already posting; they will never admit Israel did/do wrong.

a reply to: abe froman

Your first link I find the author of that article to be questionable to say the least. His article has no sources so it is simply his opinion in my book.

www.afpc.org...

Lawrence J. Haas, a former senior White House official and award-winning journalist, is Senior Fellow for U.S. Foreign Policy at the American Foreign Policy Council.

Now I thank you for linking me to that guy. I had not heard of the American Foreign Policy Council until now. To say the least it appears to me to be more propaganda to further the pursuit of Neocons who we all know have never and never will question Israel

rightweb.irc-online.org...

Founded in 1982 to serve as an elite source of commentary and analysis for U.S. policymakers, the American Foreign Policy Council (AFPC) has consistently pressed a hawkish agenda on U.S. foreign and defense policies. Its primary activities include publishing opinion pieces and news briefs, convening conferences, and dispatching experts to give congressional testimony.

And this nice gem

In the 1980s, the AFPC supported the Nicaraguan Contras and hosted figures like Roberto D'Aubisson, head of El Salvador's ARENA Party, which was linked to death squads in that country (see IRC GroupWatch Profile: World Freedom Foundation). Today, the AFPC is one of a number of hardline Washington-based think tanks—like the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute and the Center for Security Policy—that champion a broad "war on terror" and emphasize the alleged nuclear threat from Iran.

Now on to your next page full of horrible images! My god that is terrible, my only problem with it is trying to find out who it is that put that page up. Appears to be rather difficult does it not? To me that is simply propaganda. If you can give me some further info as to who is behind the page maybe it could bring some legitimacy to their claims.

Israel has done wrong and continues to, both sides have bloody hands.

a reply to: elementalgrove So anything you don't agree with is propaganda?

a reply to: abe froman

Easy there champ! You are making some rather extreme claims and your sources have no proof behind them. You avoid bringing more information and then have the audacity to call me close minded. It is upon you to back up your claims not me.