The pope condemns personal relationship with Christ

Enough of the personal attacks.

Seriously. Further jabs along this line will result in the temporary suspension of your posting privileges.

Consider this fair warning.

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Nochzwei

Dear Nochzwei,

We're slowly working towards some understanding here.

You say that all of these are misguidings of the Church:

I agree, praise the Lord, indeed. I think what you are describing here is the cleansing of Original Sin at Baptism, but I'm not familiar with your choice of words.

I think the Church has that knowledge. From the Catechism of the Church:
It's part of Confirmation and includes an anointing. It seems like the Church has got this one covered.

All right, I know you're not happy, but what about, and why?

Do you object to baptism?

Is there no such thing as Original Sin? Does the Church not anoint candidates at Confirmation?
Doesn't the Church call for the gifts of the Holy Spirit to be with the Confirmand?

What's the problem and why?

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. What did you come up with for an answer to my question about the Church's dangerous practices? - C -

Catholics receive the fullness and gifts of God the Holy Spirit in the Sacrament of Confirmation. Where is the Sacrament of Confirmation in the GOSPEL? I wasn't aware until yesterday! I am bad, I know. I learned by a Message from Heaven, from Our Lord, Jesus in a message given Father Melvin Doucette. About Father Melvin, he has the gift of healing AND his parish is on Prince Edward Island, the only place in Canada where abortion is outlawed! Alleluia.

See Acts 8: 14-17. The footnote for verse 17 also helps to understand verse 16.

Acts 8:14-17
Now when the apostles, who were in Jerusalem, had heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John. [15] Who, when they were come, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost. [16] For he was not as yet come upon any of them; but they were only baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [17] Then they laid their hands upon them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

[17] They laid their hands upon them: The apostles administered the sacrament of confirmation, by imposition of hands, and prayer; and the faithful thereby received the Holy Ghost. Not but they had received the grace of the Holy Ghost at their baptism: yet not that plenitude of grace and those spiritual gifts which they afterwards received from bishops in the sacrament of confirmation, which strengthened them to profess their faith publicly.


Douay-Rheims Bible: www.drbo.org...


Posting the message (excerpt) from Our Lord.

Message to Father Melvin Doucette

July 15, 2014


“Follow the Apostles My brother Melvin and all My brothers and sisters who have accepted Me as your Redeemer and you do all that I have asked you.
The Apostle Philip had been sent to Samaria to teach the Good News to the people of this area. He worked hard and many people were baptized even a magician called Simon. He believe in Philip and he was astounded by the signs and the mighty deeds that he accomplished in My Name. Then the Apostles Peter and John were sent to Samaria so that those baptized might receive the Holy Spirit. They came and laid hands on the people and they all received the Holy Spirit. Simon the Magician went to Saint Peter and offered him money and asked him to give him the power to lay hands on people so they may receive the Holy Spirit. Saint Peter was angry at him and told him these words, “May your money perish with you, because you thought that you could buy the gift of God with money.”Saint Peter told him to repent of what he did. He asked Saint Peter to pray for him to the Lord, that nothing of what he had said may come upon him. Then the Apostles left for Jerusalem.
As you see it is very important to receive the Holy Spirit. Today it is the Bishop who gives the Holy Spirit and it is a sacrament called the Sacrament of Confirmation. All those who are baptized must receive this great sacrament and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Then you will receive the strength to follow Me and to work for Me."....

www.ourladyofpei.com...

My this post www.abovetopsecret.com...
should essentially apply to your popes , bishops etc and all rcs, though I have nothing against any of them and should also answer any further ques or posts you may have on this subject.
Other than that I'll prefer to resist than debate
a reply to: colbe

originally posted by: Nochzwei
My this post www.abovetopsecret.com...
should essentially apply to your popes , bishops etc and all rcs, though I have nothing against any of them and should also answer any further ques or posts you may have on this subject.
Other than that I'll prefer toresistthan debate
a reply to: colbe

God will help you stop resisting, it will be His grace at the time of the divine "awakening" (Rev 6:15-17, 1 Cor 3:13).

Trust Him, better than anything I could say. He is going to bring Christians together and non-Christians who
convert.

Some think 2017, the "awakening" could be sooner.


love,

colbe

a reply to: Nochzwei

This is the reply you linked to:

Brother, I have nothing against you personally, but if you are Born Again, we ought to be thinking alike, which clearly we are not. So one of us is not a Christian.
Never mind if you have been ordained by man, but does not mean you spout all this dangerous RC nonsense, which others have also said to quit doing

I still don't understand your response to colbe and your lack of a meaningful response to me.

First Peter 3:15 says, "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have."

We should think alike? Where did that come from? Some Christians drink beer, some refuse to. Same with smoking and dancing. Only robots think alike. Some live in the midst of big cities because they feel they are called to a ministry there, some live in small cloistered communities because they here the Spirit calling them to that kind of life.

Come on, help me out. What are the items of dangerous nonsense from the Church? Or, alternatively, what do you see as the requirements an individual must follow to be a real Christian in your eyes?

originally posted by: [post=18165798]charles1952 Come on, help me out.

Casting pearls b4 swine? Nosiree

a reply to: Nochzwei

Yes I'd also like to know in what manner people must think alike to be called Christians... In your(church's) eyes.

Growing up all those mainline denominations weren't saved. No unless you were of the this and that preference of baptist you were gonna burn.

Please brother can you show me what the magic words are? Which hoops do we need to jump through?

Jesus was pretty clear about how one entered the kingdom and it didn't involve some list of doctrines or rules or a "personal relationship with god" ( please cite biblical support )

LOA

Love one another
Love God
Lay down your self (ego ) for others

This is how the world will know you are my disciples

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Nochzwei

Yes I'd also like to know in what manner people must think alike to be called Christians... In your(church's) eyes.

Growing up all those mainline denominations weren't saved. No unless you were of the this and that preference of baptist you were gonna burn.

Please brother can you show me what the magic words are? Which hoops do we need to jump through?

Jesus was pretty clear about how one entered the kingdom and it didn't involve some list of doctrines or rules or a "personal relationship with god" ( please cite biblical support )

LOA

Love one another
Love God
Lay down your self (ego ) for others

This is how the world will know you are my disciples

Brother, pl get hold of some of Billy Graham's Crusades on CD and see him preach. He is one of my favourites

a reply to: Nochzwei

Wow, that's pretty offensive.

Charles1952 is one of the most reasonable, reasoned and temperate posters on ATS.

I could see that being directed towards me, I have a penchant for being a bit of an ass, but Charles? A bit surprising.

Eric

originally posted by: EricD
Wow, that's pretty offensive.

A tell-tale sign that something may not be right...

Wherever Jesus went, he offended the religious people.

Jesus may have actually offended more people than any man who ever lived on the face of the earth.

"At these words the Jews were again divided. Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?” But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?” Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. The Jews gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." ~ John 10:19-24

People stumble because they refuse to believe what He says.

"And a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word being disobedient: whereunto they were appointed" 1 Pet. 2:8.

Weather-vane Christians can only accept what Jesus says as long as what Jesus says agrees with their concepts of what they THINK He should say.

Wherever Jesus went, he offended people, or people were offended because of him.

Look at these following passages:

“And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour save in his own country, and in his own house” (Ma. 13:57).

“Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?” (15:12). “Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad” (26:31).

Yes, Jesus offended the people, or should we say that people were offended with him, but he was never offended himself, and he never apologized to those he had offended, or who were offended because of his words or his actions. Now you understand that the fault of an offense is rarely with the offender but almost always with the offended; hence, rarely is an apology called for--or wise.

Consider the prophesy from Isaiah 8:14,15 concerning Jesus: “And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offense to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.”

Do you get the picture? When truth is spoken by Christ, or through Christ dwelling in you, many will be offended. In fact, it is possible that more people will be offended with God working through you today than were ever offended through Jesus when He was on earth. This is because we live in the last days where offenses or hurts are at a peak. Yes, in the last days “shall many be offended” (Ma. 24:10) www.schultze.org...

"Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name."

Here Jesus teaches us to pray to God calling Him father.

I have a dad, my dad, he can be selfish arrogant rude and nasty, he also has a good side, he is my dad and we have a personal relationship, I cant not have a relationship with him as he is my dad.

Jesus teaches us that God the Father is our spiritual Father, how can we not have a personal relationship with Him?
Only if we are taught that priests are our spiritual fathers, this is against what Jesus taught us in the Lords prayer.

I am in fear of God and accept His discipline, I love God and try to serve him as best I can, serving others and his church.
He asked me to call Him Father, it doesnt get more personal than that.

The Pope is wrong, God wants a relationship between us and Him, just like He had with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Why else would God have sent Jesus to earth, it was to restore the relationship between Him and us, no more churches, no more priests, no more sin, no more barriers between us and God.
The relationship is now supposed to be personal

It's also wrong to establish a relationship with someone because he or she is your ticket to financial success or sexual satisfaction or salvation of one's soul..

..It corrupts our genuine love towards another.

a reply to: Nochzwei

I have no desire to hear Billy Graham. I've heard him many times. He preaches a false gospel. That only if you say the magic words will you go to heaven, by and by in the sky. Otherwise you burn.

This is not the evangelion, which is good news. This is not good news. If 99% of all humans who have lived are going to be tortured for eternity because they didn't believe right, (based on ancient books, and not a lot of other solid evidence) if this is your message, you are not preaching GOOD NEWS.

What is the good news? I'm glad you asked. What did the angels proclaim?

"Behold I bring you GOOD NEWS(evangelion) of great joy, that shall be for 1% of the specially selected people…"

Oh Sorry thats Billy Grahams good news

"Behold I bring you good news of great joy that shall be for all the people"

How about this

From Him, through Him, and to Him are all things. Past, present, and future.

"The Father has given all [things] (Pas in greek which is all, things is added in english) into my hands"

“All(pas) that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all(pas) that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

"When I am lifted up from the earth I will draw (literally to drag) all people to myself"

That my friend is GOOD NEWS, Billy Graham once touched on universalism, and was heartily smacked down by the christian world, because how could you go against the number one dogma of organized religion. He has since repented of his backsliding into believing that God really is totally good and would not create people to be tortured for eternity, when they have only been given 70 years here on earth. So no I have no desire to listen to a Billy Graham CD. For I have no desire to listen to deception.

Ummm.... not sure if Billy is still alive but he did preach a personal relationship with Jesus, which the pope condemns, which also happens to be the title of this thread
a reply to: zardust

a reply to: Nochzwei

Um ok, but I still could care less for his personal relationship with the god of mankind's mind (the one who damns the majority of people to hell). And frankly please tell me where in the bible it says you must have a personal relationship with Jesus to go to heaven. I don't care what Mr. Graham says. You please show me. BTW I'm not denying Jesus at all, just the false image of churchianity.

What I believe the pope to be saying, and believe me I am no fan of hierarchical religion, is that community is where its at. Which btw is far more biblical than a personal relationship.

Shalom: the message of the resurrection, what was meant by peace, as in prince of peace. The concept of shalom is one of wholeness in the entire community, and in turn the entire world/cosmos. Notice the way the disciples lived in Acts, as a commune-ity. And Paul speaks of the one new man that is all men. Or when God is all in all. These are examples of Shalom. I don't believe that the catholic church is the body of Christ. At all. But there are people that are within that church that are (and all are, but many aren't aware of it, or acting in the kingdom). So if the pope speaks words of Shalom, and lives Shalom, which so far he seems to be doing, then he is building for the kingdom.

This could all be an act, I will openly admit, but this guy has a very long history of actually helping the poor, actually doing it, himself.

This is how the world will know you are my disciples:

Love one another

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Nochzwei

Um ok, but I still could care less for his personal relationship with the god of mankind's mind (the one who damns the majority of people to hell). And frankly please tell me where in the bible it says you must have a personal relationship with Jesus to go to heaven. I don't care what Mr. Graham says. You please show me.

From The Bible
When Jesus prayed for his disciples to The Father, which ends with
I in You and You in Me, so that We may be made perfect in One. We refers to The Father Jesus and the disciples.

Look up in The Bible for the full Prayer

So if this is not personal relationship, what is it?

a reply to: Nochzwei

Yes and amen to that, now look at the context of that

20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

That is a community, that they may be one, this is the mark of following Jesus

Not that they have had an alter call, and said the magic billy graham words, and really meant it this time, and haven't backslidden, or allowed satan to steal their faith, or whatever other 19-20th century evangelical gobbledy gook the evangelists have preached, tearfully sometimes, with the solemn music playing to stir you emotionally to just come to Jesus.

No thanks, I'll take Jesus' own words and actions. There is a very marked distinction between the salvation message of churchianity, and what the bible says about it. When you start with hell as the end, and Jesus comes to save you from it, the entire foundation is built on quicksand. No matter how emotional Billy gets ya, its false.