The Evidence that's convinced me of ETs' Presence on Earth

a reply to: Arbitrageur

The rebuttal .. it's top secret. It will be disclosed eventually. If not then they are just still lying.

The truth is whether alien life exists or not there is zero evidence of any life outside Earth, and believing ET life has visited Earth, in skyblueworld's own words, is a paradox.

If someone wishes to believe in an unsubstantiated paradox they are welcome to, just don't expect others to join you.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04
It's posted on ATS somewhere, because I read it shortly after I joined ATS but I can't find the thread now:
There is a declassified secret document from I think the 1950s (possibly early 60s), talking about UFOs, and in addition to speculation about how the alien craft might be propelled, etc, which means they were obviously taking the possibility of ET craft seriously, the bottom line was, they didn't have any more idea of what some of the unknown UFOs were than the general public.

So it really supported the idea that there was nothing extraterrestrial to actually disclose about Roswell either. I wish I could find that thread again; if anyone knows what I'm talking about and can link to it, please do.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Anyone who understands science in the least bit will understand reverse-engineering does not work how ATS thinks. If you drop an F-22 in the middle of Ancient Sumeria they aren't going to be able to suddenly have a technology boon. It would mean nothing to them as the technology is way too advanced for them to comprehend.

Likewise the technology supposedly possessed by these craft is so far ahead of us that we would have no clue what is going on. We would not get a sudden tech boom from it.

Great OP. I agree with your conclusion. UFOs and ET interaction is very real, and has been so for thousands of years, if not since mankind's existence.

It is, however, impossible to convince a skeptic. Don't waste your breath. Speaking of, have we heard for NASA's own Jim Oberg yet in this thread? I bet that we have.

a reply to: Sharted

I too agree the evidence for 'something' unidentified flying around our local space and skies is overwhelming.

People, including skeptics and debunkers alike, often claim that the of the 100 million+ worlds in our small Galaxy that could harbour life, the percentages alone say there's certainly intelligent life...but the think they don't come to Earth simply because we cannot (yet) travel to their worlds!

This is bizarre thinking. And deliberately obtuse IMO.

Only 100 years ago, we couldn't travel our own skies, let alone have launched hundreds of satellites and a smattering of manned missions to space and our moon...things that were said to be impossible by many of the leading minds of the time, yet within a very short space of time, we have done and continue to do these 'impossible' things, and have discovered much more about physics and engineering in the process.

Any intelligent species, with technology only a relatively short amount of time ahead of ourselves may well have a better grasp of physics and how to manipulate that physics than we now do. It is almost a certainty that there will be intelligent life out there both ahead of and behind our own developmental level and comprehension of physics and manipulation of those physics, and those ahead of us, even by only a paltry 100 - 1000 developmental years, could have the 'impossible' technology to enable them to come here.

The evidence is there, only our own biased opinions one way or the other matter when discussing this subject. Either you live your life, examine the evidence, weigh up the possibilities based on our own experience of life here, and the huge numbers of worlds in our small Galaxy, and you either believe on balance that UFOs are and have been coming to our planet or you don't. It's really that simple.

Sure...it is entirely possible that a percentage of sightings are our own forays into exotic air and space craft design and propulsion systems, in fact i'd be amazed and disappointed if there wasn't some programme of continual development in these areas, even if they are kept behind a 'silicon curtain'.

But surely, IF the majority of UFO sightings are indeed experimental, black project exotic vehicles, that is arguably an even BIGGER story that ET vehicles flying around in our local space isn't it?

If we have technology capable of what the reported UFO craft can do...that would mean there is and never has been an energy crisis, there is not and never has been an alarming problem with fossil fuels creating climate change and a need to reduce our usage of them, there is not a problem with limited resources...think about that for a moment...if we can do what these UFOs do, and most of the sightings of craft can zip about the atmosphere, local space and interstellar space, they would have had to solve energy problems, so no fossil fuels, they would have to have solved a great many technical problems and broken down many barriers, the same barriers that contribute to what the authorities claim plague our world and are causing dire problems for us now and in the future...so if UFOs are not ET craft, and in fact are our own secret technologies...that's an even more damning conspiracy on so many levels than just covering up an ET presence here!

My own view is there are both flying around our skies and space...Human and ET engineered craft. Perhaps even a joint or coalition force of humans and one or more other species.

Whatever the case, it's time we were officially made aware of all the facts and time for us to move on and upwards.

a reply to: MysterX

I too agree the evidence for 'something' unidentified flying around our local space and skies is overwhelming.

Unfortunately the evidence is indistinguishable from a variety of normal misperceptions.

People, including skeptics and debunkers alike, often claim that the of the 100 million+ worlds in our small Galaxy that could harbour life, the percentages alone say there's certainly intelligent life...but the think they don't come to Earth simply because we cannot (yet) travel to their worlds!

No. There is simply no evidence that we have been visited. Life that exists on other worlds and can travel to other planets is pure speculation. Life on other planets has not been found and We have yet to get past our own moon.

The OP has chosen some good case studies..
I have been researching the subject myself for 4 years..

My conclusions suit that of Peter Levander, the UFO's we have witnessed are most likely very Human in origin, and probably spring from a breakaway civilisation.

Valle, and Keel seem to support this aswell as Paranormal influences also.
Nazi's and the Occult play a huge role from the 1930's onwards.

All of the main cases from Kenneth Arnold onwars have connections to the Occult Nazi/US airforce & '___' MKUltra influences...

Remember that theyare actively preparing us for BlueBeam

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

When I explained "Flatland" to my friend at work he asked, "How could you defend yourself against someone from a higher dimension?"

We had been talking about 3 dimensions vs 2, and when I showed him how a Flatlander would not comprehend the concept of "up" and how a 3D person could seemingly pass through walls and magically appear as if from nowhere, he immediately thought of the power differential extra-dimensionality would confer.

He's a military guy, so this thought was "natural" (to him).

In answer to his question, I said - "You could not."

We were talking about 2 vs 3 dimensions, but I was thinking about 5 or 6 or more vs the 3 (really it is 4) that we normally inhabit when I made my answer.

We cannot.

It's that simple.

But the thing is this - we don't have to.

All of this is perfectly and cogently explained by The Urantia Book. Urantia

It will change your life _if_ you actually, you know, read it.

So far no one I have told about it has been even willing to give it a go but for two guys and it CHANGED them.

It changed me, that's for sure.

It ties it all together and will relieve your mind from the aliens-are-demons fear. It turns out - some of them ARE, but there's no reason to fear.

I can tell you this - if you are a Christian: your God is a Space Man.

He is mine, and it is perfect.

a reply to: Sharted

Great post OP. I've been interested in UFOs for a long time but have never come to a firm conclusion about what they are.The way that people use ET or UFO interchangeably can sometimes be misleading though, which annoys me when trying to investigate this field. Not all unidentified flying objects are necessarily extra-terrestrial in origin.

I find the examples of the astronauts really intriguing as I'd never thought of this before. I cannot imagine how eery that must be!

Ancient and medieval art and imagery featuring UFOs seems to lend credence to some sort of phenomenon, but I am very concerned that the widespread use of image manipulation and digital effects programmes will make it harder to distinguish genuine sightings from hoaxes in the future, so sticking to these historical cases might prove more fruitful.

originally posted by: Kromlech
a reply to: Kromlech

OUR EXISTENCE speaks volumes to said possibilities and LIKELIHOOD of life ELSEWHERE.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

Not really. It speaks to our existence, not much else. Likelihood of life elsewhere cant be determined. Possible, sure. Strong Belief that life exists elsewhere is shared by most of us here.

That's cool you want to pretend that out of all 500-billion galaxies of our OBSERVABLE universe, that only "planet Earth" harbors life -- is truly embarrassing

, and utterly comedic at this point...

What I am saying is that we don't know but what we do have is belief. I believe that life exists on other planets. I believe its possible that we have been visited. "Likelihood" can not be determined because likelihood requires known outcomes. Aliens visiting or even existing is not known. I am just distinguishing my personal beliefs from mathematical concepts. There seems to be a lot of confusion around this area.

a reply to: intrptr

Adding Travis Walton to the list if its okay. Check out "Fire in the Sky". I know, its a movie.

I believe these men for many reasons. One reason is that for several years they didn't talk due to a disagreement. They basically hated each other and yet both men still backed the other one's story. Also the lack of wanting to talk about it and make money off the story even though some of them were struggling they still wouldn't do appearances or interviews. *Minus Walton.
*(going off memory here so I could have some of this a little wrong, it's been a long time since I seen their actual story)

have you seen anything for yourself
as i have with all my family (three kids and her indoors)
but i have never seen any beings/ets

if so please tell us what you saw
a reply to: Sharted

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Sharted

Everything you posted is false. His plane was witnessed falling in a spiralling descent and crashing.

Two other pilots also saw the "object" and said it was so small it was difficult to distinguish.

Mantell is the only pilot who continued to climb which explains why he was the only one to black out from lack of oxygen, he did not have an oxygen mask. Also Mantell was not familiar with the P-51 Mustang he was flying.

There was something, whether a planet, or balloon, or other object, but there is nothing at all indicative of ET life. your post is filled with outright lies.

ETA: Just to be a bit more conclusive, the most likely culprit was a balloon from project Skyhook.

Everything I posted was lies, yet you only debunk one case I posted...there are many more cases but I just posted the best ones in my opinion.

We have been visited for possibly thousands of years. Columbus even had a quite remarkable sighting on his way to North America. Sightings of ufo's may go back as far as 12,000 years from what I have heard. Are all ufo's extraterrestrial, no, but SOME are.

As to the number of galaxies, if you wish to apply all the evidence we have to Drake's Equation the answer you come out with is 0 planets with life outside Earth.

Spurious. The Drake equation is still fairly unknown to us. Here is an interesting post about it: www.setileague.org...

and a quote from it:

"It is interesting that when the Equation was first written, the only factor which we had any basis to estimate with reasonable accuracy was the first, the rate of stellar formation. In the four decades since, we have learned something about extra-solar planets, so we can now estimate the second factor. We also have direct evidence as to the existence of two planets in their star's habitable zones, so (though the sample size is small) we can roughly estimate the third factor. At this rate, we should have three more factors nailed down by the middle of the next century! A value for the seventh will probably always elude us."

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I made mostly the same points you made. People will believe what the wish to be true though, and then make evidence to fit their belief. OP left out the fact two other pilots both saw the "ufo" and said it was pretty small and did not think it warranted further investigating.

I didn't leave anything out at all. I merely summarized and even provided a link to a more in-depth report on the incident, which you clearly didn't read so I will post it again: www.abovetopsecret.com...

And as for the balloon explanation...okay, plausible but again the link gives more in-depth analyses and it clearly wasn't a balloon. The other pilots were out of oxygen/low on fuel. The fact that it was small was probably because it was 10,0000 feet above them....then there are reports that there were no balloons in the air at the time. It doesn't matter which cases I put forth because anyone can give a logical answer to anything these days, always without proof and plenty of speculation thrown in. If I saw a ghost with my own eyes I could give 10 logical answers to what I saw (hallcuication,wormhole,reflection, etc.), always looking for an "acceptable" answer rather than the reality.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
...if the aliens want disclosure why do they simply not do it? It makes no sense.

And if there were, and they wanted disclosure, why would we not have it already?

Disclosure is the very LAST thing on their agenda...

Once you understand WHY, everything starts to make sense.

1) They are not aliens.

2) They have a hidden agenda.

3) They lie about everything.

The Joe Jordan video above connects ALL the dots which is the reason I posted it.

They are inveterate liars and deceivers, and delight in bamboozling and misleading mankind with all manner of nonsense. They are addicted to the abduction or kidnapping of humans.

The True Nature Of The 'UFO Entities'

I have patients that will testify they see gnomes coming out of their vagina. Is that evidence of it happening? No.

Would they pass the astronaut psychological screening process? There is a big difference between average Joes and astronauts.

originally posted by: Staroth
a reply to: intrptr

Adding Travis Walton to the list if its okay. Check out "Fire in the Sky". I know, its a movie.

I believe these men for many reasons. One reason is that for several years they didn't talk due to a disagreement. They basically hated each other and yet both men still backed the other one's story. Also the lack of wanting to talk about it and make money off the story even though some of them were struggling they still wouldn't do appearances or interviews. *Minus Walton.
*(going off memory here so I could have some of this a little wrong, it's been a long time since I seen their actual story)

Actually you have it surmised pretty well. It is that over time development of their experience that is most compelling. They haven't changed their stories (at all) and have sacrificed time and money avoiding the lime light instead of embellishing it. They have nothing to prove and nothing to lose.

Thats why I like this one too.