originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: Pinke
Any support for your supposition? Or just want you want to believe?
I actually mentioned the support for my supposition, but you can also look up studies by criminologists like Jack Levin or Grant Duwe if you like. I
don't have time to write a university level paper for you, but here are some things about mass shootings you need to take into account:
* When someone compares shootings in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's comparing two totally different data sets. Per capita, Iraq probably has more
shootings. If we put Iraqi people on the map, it may even just beat your numbers out right.
* The school shootings reference are based largely on the Mother Jones dataset which, even if it was accurate which it isn't, is around 70 shootings
out of several hundred more mass murders which have occurred. It is statistically insignificant even in the already small dataset of all mass
shootings in the USA . There are an average of about 25 mass murders a year in the USA - only a tiny number are reported as 'the norm'. On this
point, you personally are correct, the focus on such a small group of shootings is wrong, but in being wrong it also refutes the OP claim.
* One of your major studies
overwhelmingly focuses on
women's shootings. A lot of things on that website do, and they can sound quite significant when safely tucked away from the wider homicide
demographic which is mainly men shooting other men. (And it is actually gendered ... men don't value each other as much as they should!)
* Mass shootings are easy datasets to misrepresent because they are so uncommon. To give an example, mass shootings would profile the shooter as
white since 1976. If we moved the numbers to between 2001 to 2010 (Huff-Corzine et al, 2014) the profile would suggest black people are more likely to
be mass murderers. Some of your study data runs between 2003 and 2012. Chances are, with the numbers involved, we could skew the data again by moving
it to say 2011 only - something your study does a handful of times. A quoted example:
According to a
Mayors Against Illegal Guns analysis of the 93 mass shootings in the United States
between January 2009 and September 2013 that involved four or more victims, 57
percent involved domestic violence. In these cases, the shooter killed a current or
former spouse, intimate partner, or other family member as part of his rampage.25
The study acknowledges that familicide statistics can be problematic, but doesn't seem to mind bending them like a pretzel whenever it props up the
point, and imply that the 'unknowns' mean 'under reported'.
* With women making up around 40% of mass shooting victims, you can see in a small dataset it wouldn't take much to get the demographic over the 50%
line with some number shifting. A single incident can massively skew the numbers.
To your credit, familicide is an issue that needs to be addressed. They make up around 30% of all homicides, and many of them go under reported, but
to take a small handful of school shootings and imply that they are descriptive of a wider trend is wrong. It becomes really obvious too when you look
at the banner of the website, this is a political gambit which is time consuming to deconstruct:
Yes, in isolation mass shootings and the spike of women victims seems incredibly significant, but taken into account with wider trends, the overall
homicide rate, and the fact that women are around 20 - 25% of victims in all homicides ... this isn't a women's issue.
When family men start shooting they don't spare their sons or brothers. The closing of the gender gap in mass shootings actually demonstrates less
discriminate (not indiscriminate) wide spread rage and hatred from people who are not indoctrinated in the social norm of protecting women from
violence ... it doesn't demonstrate that women in particular are being targeted.
I'm open to a rebuttal of these issues FyreByrd but only if you put a similar amount of effort into the exchange. That includes looking up source
material. If you need help finding your way to or through data please U2U me, and I can give you a reference list from my studies.
I'm not trying to be a pain, but a single paper on this subject is often a far more significant word count than ATS will allow to be posted.