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originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
Kruphix, thanks for playing the role of the naive, contentious, painfully misinformed Obama supporter during this debate. Someone has to play devil's advocate in these threads or else things might get boring.
originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Truth be told, how do we even know the hard drives were destroyed, where is the proof of that?
They could be lying about all of it.
originally posted by: Lipton
originally posted by: kruphix
Ok...and what does that prove about the IRS email system and storage limits???
I don't understand why people don't get this...YOUR email and email systems at where YOU work say absolutely nothing about the IRS email system.
This is called anecdotal evidence...and all it does it give evidence about YOUR experience...but not about anyone elses.
No, it isn't anecdotal, it is an example of the way government agencies (in this case the entire Armed Forces and the DOD) work.
I and MILLIONS of other service members are capable of logging in to our email accounts anywhere in the world, on any computer. You mean to tell me that the same email service (Outlook) is somehow magically different for the IRS?
Sometimes I wish ATS had a block option, mainly because of blatantly ignorant posters that are more worried about their particular politician possibly getting # on, rather than about their fellow citizens.
But whatever guy, IDGAF. Keep saying things like 'anecdotal evidence', but you have yet to offer ANY legitimate counterargument to ANY scandal this administration has been involved in.
Don't go quitting your day job Jay Carney.
originally posted by: Djarums
It must be quite an experience for a self-styled all powerful bureaucrat to be accused of lying. And in such a public fashion.
These are people who are used to getting their own way, period. You think the electeds are bad? Think again. The people here consider the electeds to be like the Christmas help. The bureaucrats were there before the electeds came in and they will be there after the electeds leave.
As far as the "lost emails" are concerned, this is either a lie or the worst form or IT misconduct I have ever heard of (which should certainly result in the prompt dismissal of the IRS's CIO and senior staff).
An article published by Businessweek this past Wednesday explains why.
The IRS has Microsoft’s (MSFT) Outlook for its 90,000 workers and gives them 500 megabytes of space for mail, or about 6,000 per inbox, up from 150 MB before the summer of 2011. If you reach the limit, the system generates an alert that space needs to be freed up for continued e-mail use. Plenty of U.S. companies have a similar practice.
That certainly sounds familiar. Most offices function this way. If the user's mailfile becomes to big things can slow down, and a whole host of other reasons to keep the mailfile itself to a manageable size.
However... here comes the problem. Like most offices, they encourage employees to archive old emails to keep that mailfile manageable... HOWEVER:
The archive is maintained on the employee’s computer—not on a corporate server—and is not part of the daily systemwide mail backup
WHAT? The archived email is stored on the C Drive? On the local computer?
I have never heard of such a ridiculous concept in my life. Firstly, you are probably limiting your employees to the use of one PC, ever. One of the main purposes of a network is that you can access the shared drives from anywhere. Why the hell would an agency with 90,000(!!!) employees encourage file storage on a local drive?
What does that mean? Well the IRS issued a statement saying
“An electronic version of the archived e-mail would not be retained if an employee’s hard drive is recycled or if the hard drive crashes and cannot be recovered,”
Now... in my office, we're not rich by any means. When someone leaves and a new employee replaces them we simply use wipedrive enterprise, put a new image on, and give the same PC to the replacement. But it doesn't matter because whatever the former employee did has been backed up. Both on site (on the servers) and in an off-site data center.
This bureaucrat is meaning to sit there and tell us that these simple things are not done at a government agency of 90,000 people that REPORTS TO and is RESPONSIBLE TO the people of the USA?
As I said, either he is point blank lying or the entire upper echelon of the IRS has been involved in mismanagement of sensitive information and should be fired en masse.
Forget about my office for a moment... A friend of mine runs a bakery that specializes in high end cakes for all sorts of fancy occasions. Besides for the baking staff he has about 15 or so office staff. If a PC crashes he doesn't lose his orders. They're backed up in his LAN room and they're backed up with a service he pays for.
So a small business of ~20 follows IT best practices and the freaking IRS doesn't?
Stop it. No really... stop it.
originally posted by: kruphix
Yes, it is anecdotal evidence...do you know the definition of the term? It is the exact definition of anecdotal evidence.
Bottom line is that your personal experience means absolutely nothing when talking about the IRS's systems and policies.
You seem to have some anger issues
...not understanding how email systems and backup systems work.
originally posted by: Destinyone
a reply to: Metallicus
Methinks you'll be selling a lot of that swampland...to Obama diehards.
This is making the rounds today...people are getting angry as hell...
Anecdotal evidence refers to an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote. It is the opposite of scientific evidence. Anecdotal evidence consists of events that tend to support a conclusion of discrimination. It may include individual experiences or stories, and statements by employers showing bias.
I offered a first hand account of how a government email service works that I have used for nearly a decade. The fact that the account can be accessed anywhere, anytime, on nearly any computer means that (in the case of the DOD, the DA and every branch of service) the emails are stored somewhere else.
And apparently you missed the earlier post, but the IRS The IRS Had a Contract With an Email Backup Company since 2005. So apparently not only is Lois Lerner and party too worthless to operate a computer, but the IRS is also incapable of securing data, being forthcoming about the data loss that occurred months ago and on top of all of that that also means that Sonasoft was defrauding the government by failing to fulfill their contractual obligations by not backing up emails?
So please, inform me (in your own words) of the intricacies of email systems and backup systems, seeing as how you come off as a subject matter expert. Of course I'd be forever indebted to you if you could actually manage to do so in your own words, rather than a wikipedia regurgitation.
originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: neo96
So the 'official' story goes.
But people need to get real they collect, and STORE much more than that.
Sorry, I don't play the fantasy game...I just go off the known facts. Anything beyond that is illogical.