Time is funnel shaped

In a discussion with my friend today, who is a physicist, he told me of an interesting theory he came up with about time being funnel shaped. This picture is my attempt at showing what he drew ( when I get a scanner I'll scan his drawing on to the computer)



He said that time expands aswell as the universe. He also said thatat blackholes because of the immense gravity they 'suck' in space time and all the atoms are separated into subatomic particles (in effect a black hole is the exact reverse of the Big Bang). When the particles enter the singularity they are transported back in time to the big bang and that's why the Universe is expanding. What do you guys think of his theory, i'll try and get him to come onto ats and you could discuss with him. For now i'll pass your criticism/congratulations on to him.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by Iknowthelies]

Do you have a better picture?

Originally posted by I_AM_that_I_AM
Do you have a better picture?

No, sorry

Try to imagine the funnels as just time (they don't represent space expanding)

It is hard to comprehend, it took Michael (the physicist a while to explain it to everyone)

There is something about this theory which is really catchy. I like it...

I was wondering if there are any known missions or tests on blackholes and where the closest one is to Earth? Also, based on this theory... whatever enters the blackhole would go back in time to the big bang? This part does not make a lot of sense to me. If it was the exact opposite of the "big bang" then wouldn't everything that enters be completely obliterated? Or could the particles not necessarily be time traveling to the beginning itself, but exiting to a point in the universe which is currently expanding?

I think we need to develop something to test what a blackhole actually is and what is going on inside of it. Like the movie twister and how those balls swarmed into the tornado and gave readings on what the eye of the tornado was... well I think something needs to be developed for blackholes similar to that idea.

[edit on 12/1/2004 by superslicksh0es]

Originally posted by superslicksh0es
Also, based on this theory... whatever enters the blackhole would go back in time to the big bang? This part does not make a lot of sense to me. If it was the exact opposite of the "big bang" then wouldn't everything that enters be completely obliterated? Or could the particles not necessarily be time traveling to the beginning itself, but exiting to a point in the universe which is currently expanding?



[edit on 12/1/2004 by superslicksh0es]

This is only a theory and i personally think that the matter from black holes don't go back to the Big Bang but go to another Big Bang and so matter 'destroyed' in our Universe is 'created' in another.

I like your idea about 'white holes' and studying blackholes in a similar way to 'Twister'.

Hey this is my first post! The idea for the blackhole wouldn't work because how would the little probes transmitt anything the blackhole would "suck" the radio waves back into itself and I was told when you go into a blackhole you become singularity???:

Woot! My first post too! The theory your friend preposed is a very intresting take on a new theory dubbed 'brane by those wacky quantum guys. It is short for membrane theory, and with out going into a ton of detail, our universe is on a "flat" sheet of space time, one of countless realities out there. When one membrane (universe) gets close to another, and touches, bam! a big bang happens, and the two universes produce a brand new baby universe. Taking this theory a step further, one could say that when the two universes hit, both rip, causing a drain, like a sink of dishwater. The water above the stopper is one universe, pull the stopper, with your hand acting as colliding universe, and the water drains out, expanding in to a third "new" universe, at the local water treatment plant. That example works best if you don't have good pipes, then the water creates a nice new universe on the kitchen floor when drained
I am sure anyone with even a passing interest has already found some great astro/quantum physics sites, but I will add one of my favorites. Good site with daily updates. www.space.com...
Oh yeah, I need one of those newbie adoptions as well.
Oh, and the singularity? Only one part of a black hole. In supermassive black holes, like the one holding down our nice galaxy, theory states that if you could survive the crushing gravity and doses of radation too high to fathom, you could skip past the singularity like squeezing by the fat lady at the supermarket, and come out at the other "end" of the hole. Of course the theroy, like all other black hole/creation of the universe theories is rooted in complex (that will be the understatement of the week) math. So no one really knows, or will know for many, many years. But yes, in a "normal" non rotating black hole, you pass the event horizon and kiss it goodby, because once you hit the singularity, thats it. Or sort of. Information can escape a singularity, in a mangled form. Ask Stephen Hawkins, he just lost a bet on this very subject. www.newscientist.com...

[edit on 2-12-2004 by neonantichrist]

As everything in the world has an opposite, and we know what is classed as a black hole and what it does.

Should there not also be the reverse, say a White Hole?

What would the characteristics of this be?

Although I believe wormholes exist I dont think they have anything more to do with time aside from shortening the length of your trip!

If you travel 50 times the speed of light to a destination and someone else traveled half the speed of light to the same destination, it does not mean you went into the future, It only means you got there faster!

firstly I would like to state that this theory does not stand up mathematically.

If matter Space/Time is sucked into a black hole and somehow travels back in time then there would be a loop and so there would be a stable universe with no expansion at all.

I might add that at CERN there is a Massive hadron collider being built and should be up and running by 2007. This will be able to create mini black holes but more interestingly it will be able to detect the Higgins Bosson which will theoretically explain why matter has mass....

|What I believe we will find is that we are I.E. The universe we inhabit is inside a black hole.... and time as we experience it is in fact the universe moving towards the singularity.... the big crunch or big rip.....

There is another theory too.....

That the universe is not expanding at all but in fact all matter is shrinking.... And the weirdness we all experience on a daily basis is going to become stronger as the quanyum effects of the uncertainty principle come into effect. The end result of this thoery is the matter in the universe will once again become so dense that it will cause a big bang and so the big bang itself is a never ending cycle.

Hope that all helps...

P.S. No one knows for sure what is reality, we only know what we think we know....

All the best,

Tim_uk74

The theory that the universe is shrinking is widely disreguarded. The famous red-shift is still present today, the universe is in fact, still moving outward. Now it has slowed, and could possibly start to shrink back to a big crunch. That will all depend on the presences of dark matter and dark energy. If the universe does contain the so called dark matter/energy, models show that the universe will "end" in a big crunch, or rip, depending on who you ask. If the dark matter is not present, the universe will continue to expand, ending in a cold shudder. The galaxies will drift so far apart that no stars will be visible in the night sky. All a moot point, as the earth of course will not be around. www.space.com...
A very well written article on the big rip theory.
As for the universe inside a black hole....well, that opens a whole new can of worms. Why would we be able to detect black holes from inside a black hole, leading to another singularity and another universe. A black hole can only have one singularity, while a universe is capable of supporting countless black holes, being inside of one would seem to rule out the idea of another singularity down the cosmic turnpike. But like you said, reality is what we think we know, and we don't know much of anything.
Do you have an article on the new endevors at CERN? From what my friends tell me, particle finding physics has come to a near stop, with no new linear acceleators schduled to go online for years to come. I couldn't find much on my links about the new projects at CERN or SLA.

Originally posted by neonantichrist
The theory that the universe is shrinking is widely disreguarded. The famous red-shift is still present today, the universe is in fact, still moving outward. Now it has slowed, and could possibly start to shrink back to a big crunch. That will all depend on the presences of dark matter and dark energy. If the universe does contain the so called dark matter/energy, models show that the universe will "end" in a big crunch, or rip, depending on who you ask. If the dark matter is not present, the universe will continue to expand, ending in a cold shudder. The galaxies will drift so far apart that no stars will be visible in the night sky. All a moot point, as the earth of course will not be around. www.space.com...
A very well written article on the big rip theory.
As for the universe inside a black hole....well, that opens a whole new can of worms. Why would we be able to detect black holes from inside a black hole, leading to another singularity and another universe. A black hole can only have one singularity, while a universe is capable of supporting countless black holes, being inside of one would seem to rule out the idea of another singularity down the cosmic turnpike. But like you said, reality is what we think we know, and we don't know much of anything.
Do you have an article on the new endevors at CERN? From what my friends tell me, particle finding physics has come to a near stop, with no new linear acceleators schduled to go online for years to come. I couldn't find much on my links about the new projects at CERN or SLA.

Hi neonantichrist,

My idea of the shrinking matter is not that the whole universe is shrinking, just the matter. That would create the redshift too if all matter was shrinking at the same rate.

in addition, the idea of the universe we inhabit being inside of a black hole, there is evidence that multiple singularites can exsist in the same hole... in fact it has been worked out that if there were two singularities that they may create a gravitational flux that would mean no spagetification and matter would be able to fall right the way through the hole and into ??? well no one knows what into but that is another theory...

anyway regarding Cern...

have a look at the following link..

news.bbc.co.uk...\

Very very interesting stuff....

All the best People.

Tim_uk74

Good theory, I understood it without any trouble, I dont see why its hard. The funnel thing doesn't make any sense though. That is what through me off. Black holes take what matter they swallow, and timeshift it back to the big bang (origin spot) and that is why the universe keeps expanding. That makes sense to me. But not that it goes back in time and puts more matter into the big bang, because then it wouldn't cause the universe to keep geting bigger it would just be huge and we would't know the difference due to the change in time.

Confused myself on that one.

Ooppss that was

news.bbc.co.uk...

Hope this helps

Tim_uk74

Great link! I wonder how fast the HLC will be able to accelerate the particles! We might be closer to hitting the speed of light then most people know!

Ok, from what you're describing, I'm assuming that your friend is describing a loop in the space-time continuum.

That description you gave us is grossly inadequate.

If that's the best you can offer, you'd best ask your friend to describe his theory himself.

The current mode of belief is that mass bends space-time, it doesn't "suck" it in. It's only known to "suck" in matter.

You'll need to tell us where this matter goes exactly. Does it really disappear from our locality in the space-time continuum to reappear at the exact point in space-time of the big bang? That's a huge statement to be making.

Think, if that did happen, why do black holes have mass at all? Shouldn't black holes not be able to gain mass by sucking in matter, since that matter is transported away anyway? Care to explain?

Also, try explaining Hawking's radiation to us using your friends theory. Does the matter just get "sucked back" from the Big Bang to the black hole's current locality in space-time and spat out? I doubt it.

Thanks NeonAntiChrist I hate being told false information and then trying to use it, thanks for clearing that matter up dude I have never heard of the reclapse of the universe before,but if the orignal big bang is what is still giving our universe energy to expand then imagine how much energy is realeased!!! Wait how can you "dodge" the singularity part, and how does information come out scrambled shouldn't it not come out at all from the gravity of the blackhole like everything else????

Originally posted by Bondi
As everything in the world has an opposite, and we know what is classed as a black hole and what it does.

Should there not also be the reverse, say a White Hole?

What would the characteristics of this be?

That subject has come up here before. There is a 'White Hole' theory that is exactly like the one you mention. You can read about it here for starters:
Black & White Holes Singularities
www.belowtopsecret.com...

.
Sort of a tangent question, but looking at all the gravity spacewarp diagrams, what does anyone suppose is the natural tension/elastic structure/power that keeps gravity free areas of space/universe taught?

Ideas, speculations?
.

I wasn't aware there were any gravity free areas.

Doesn't Gravity have an unlimited range?