My constant companion..... Insomnia

Hello Doodle19815,

(and hello ATS community btw, since this is my first post here )

what you explain sounds pretty similar to what i heared from a good friend recently. I wasn't aware of his problem since he told me some months ago. He has this kind of insomnia for many years now and from what i heared and what i self experienced on my own (sometimes i can't get sleep for some days too but it's ofc nothing you can compare with) this is an serious issue.

Anyway. Can't say he's "healed" or that he sleeps like a baby every night now but over the years of trying various things out he now found a promising way to overcome this issue.

Imo it's one way, not the only one and of course you should also consider to meet with an expert (psychologist). He told me about this Mindfulness Meditation.

He didn't just learned it by himself but rather was kind of thrown into a program by some expert. That's why i suggest you to visit an appropriate person first.

Good Luck and i hope this helped

a reply to: Tichy

Welcome to ATS! I feel honored that my thread brought about your first post.

Meditation and I go round and round. Sometimes staring at a candle for a few minutes calms me. Other times it aggravates me. My mind can start a whirlwind effect of crazy thoughts during meditation. I know seeking help and being trained to meditate would probably aid in my journey. However, when children are banging around your house at all times, I find it hard to escape to that place of solitude.

I am going to go check out your link. Thanks for the tip.

I don't know if this will help. I used to have trouble sleeping, But during a short stint in county jail were sleeping is by far the best way to pass the time. I learned an intresting trick. It'll sound simple but still works for me to this day.


I imagine a really complex fantasy word for word, play by play. Like what would you do will a billion dollars. But go slow step by step. Where did you get it? Who do you tell first. Exc. I start enjoying my fantasy so much I'm not trying to sleep anymore. Next thing I know I'm out cold.


My favorite fantasy is the ability to jump in and out of specific parts of books I've read.

Hope that works for you!

originally posted by: Doodle19815
a reply to: Tichy

Welcome to ATS! I feel honored that my thread brought about your first post.

OMG you little devil you, you helped pop his posting cherry!

a reply to: Biigs

Hey, I'll sleep better tonight knowing I helped lead another sheep into the fold.

a reply to: Doodle19815

Thanks for the kind words!

I couldn't help to post that, because i really think this method has some potential, not only for this kind of psychological problems. My "link" is just the english version of the wiki entry. I could provide some better info about some psychologist (with pretty good reputation) here in germany but i am unaware of any others in the world.

So, that link should just give you an idea of what i'm speaking of and maybe you can search somone in your area, who has the right contact or information to lead you to someone else etc. .

Greets Tichy

originally posted by: Doodle19815
a reply to: Biigs

Hey, I'll sleep better tonight knowing I helped lead another sheep into the fold.

Such a politicial fare answer!

your a dirty forum troll who steals new members innocence!!!!

Joking. Nice work, have a beer

a reply to: Doodle19815
I'm the same-I eventually realised I get by fine on 5 hours. Once I stopped stressing about being awake at midnight, and up again at 5.00am, there was no problem, Even so, there are nights I just cant drop off, and the infallible cure for me is a fan on a timer-the constant noise knocks me out in no time.

My other tip, and also good when you cant take your mind off any problem, is I mentally set myself a really difficult task, like how would i survive on a desert island with no tools-how would i make the tools that made the tools, that made the boat i'd use to get home?

Hope these help.

a reply to: Doodle19815 Here is a technique that puts your body into pure relaxation.

Take 13 deep breaths. Breath in from your nose as much as you can, hold it then blow out.

Do that and you will be more relaxed.

I'm not sure if drugs/alcohol will make this technique work more or less.

a reply to: Doodle19815

Glutamine, formed from bread, forms GABA. If you are low on GABA your mind races and you get anxious. Now, turkey has tryptophan which forms Serotonin. Serotonin regulates the sleep wake cycle. Chicken is real high in Beta Blockers, must be the reason that they are pushing it so much, and this blocks the adrenal gland so you don't get so much adrenaline....which will also help you sleep.

The thing might be that you are getting the right amount of needed sleep for the repairs needed in the body also. If you are avoiding tyramines too much it could give you problems, a little aged foods are good for us.

Any meds? Some meds screw up the sleep cycle. I can sleep longer when I take a multivitamin and the sleep is good, but I wake up with a sore neck from injuries over the years...I sleep too sound and do not turn when my neck is sore.

Certain fragrances can make us more alert, could be something that you changed or just the smell of something in the air. Maybe someone races a car by at 3:00 after the bar closes, waking you up. There could be a lot of things that need to be looked at. We have built in clocks too, I almost always woke up minutes before the alarm clock. Maybe you set your head alarm so you could see 3:00 and it needs to be changed somehow. It's probably harder than setting the clock on a car radio without instructions to reset that alarm in your braion.

I sometimes take Methylcobalamin, it really makes me get a good sleep, I take it twenty minutes before going sleep. Better than cyanocobalamin in a high dose, that seems to keep me up.

a reply to: Doodle19815

I understand you.

I have been taking Ambien (or in the UK Zolpidem Tartrate or Stilnoct) on and off for around 7 years now.

I wouldn't advise taking them all the time, but just 5-10mg when you 'know' you're not going to sleep.

The best advice above ALL is exercise every day if possible, and work hard at it.

I understand this is not always convenient due to family, children, work etc. But you only need to squeeze in 20-30 mins of meaningful cardio a day to help you sleep.

Of course eat healthy whenever you can, cut out a lot of sugar in your day, and none after 2pm. Reduce your caffeine intake, and avoid junk food and energy drinks.

At bed time take a 30 min bath, close the door from the world around you, and have some YOU TIME. Where you should try empty your mind completely and just relax in your bubbles.

Me time every day is very important, even if it's only 10-15mins, just go somewhere quiet and empty mind, and take long deep breaths through your nose, and exhale out of your mouth.

After bath time or you time, it is time for you to go to bed and READ FICTION, where you and your imagination can escape.

I always listen to classical music on a phone app when in the bath, and when reading in bed. Not only is it very relaxing, it also increases your comprehension rate when reading.

Once you've read for 30 mins to an hour, your eyes should start getting heavy, if not take 5mg of Ambien and your eyes WILL get heavy after reading.

I'm no pro, but I do know how to deal with my insomnia.

Even if you try just a couple things I have mentioned, it should still be a great help to you.

Very best of luck, keep us posted on your efforts and outcomes. Sweet dreams

a reply to: Doodle19815

Stilnox (Ambien) works for me pretty fine. When it doesn't work, well.. then it sucks. So I feel your pain.
Ok, basically you have a couple of options left, regarding drugs.
When Ambien, which is technically ZOLPIDEM, doesn't work, you can try ZOLPICLONE, sold under the names : Zimovane, Imovane.
here it is:
en.wikipedia.org...
however, I haven't tried it myself as Zolpidem works for me.

In case none of these work, there is a combination with benzos to treat insomnia, so basically you would take xanax and ambien simultaneously.

In weird cases of insomnia, Clonazepam or Lorazepam is being used, still in combination with zolpidem/zolpiclone (en.wikipedia.org...)

If nothing works, the good ol' barbiturates come as drugs of "last resort"... so in case you are literally about to die because you can't fall asleep, you can be injected by sodium thiopental or alike and that will certainly kick you out for a while.

btw, take anti-histamines regularly, they seem to help, maybe just a placebo effect, but they are essentially harmless

& try to avoid alcohol, as the sleep quality under alcohol intake is pretty bad. alcohol messes up the sleep stages. and as someone already pointed out, regular alcohol intake would prolly make you addicted and tipsy
hope this helps

a reply to: Doodle19815
Long term insomniac here. Just wanted to tell you that it help if your bedroom is absolutely dark. Even an illuminated clock face can affect you. Do what you can to block out any light. Drugs do not help in the long run, so avoid them.

a reply to: Necrose

I tried ZOLPICLONE and it did work, i got a good long nights sleep, but it left me weak and drowsy the next day.

Also i could'nt consume alcohol and a few nights a week i like a beer with my work friends.

I never tried a few beers and the meds, i fear'ed id be out for a week if i did. And while that sounds good to an insomniac, you would feel like total garbage for days. Not worth it.

However, i will say: it doesnt hurt to get a few off your doc if you had a bad week and you are desperate. Once in a while i gotta say, they can be good, its just hard not to rely on them, same with alcohol.

Zombified is the word i would use (if its a word) does it make you get a good sleep? yes. does it make you a zombie the next day? yes? is it worth it overall? no.

I suffer the fro insomnia as well. It takes a long time to fall asleep, once I am asleep the slightest noise wakes me. I am considering trying hypnosis to see if it helps. If I do I will post my results here.

even though i totally agree with the light and noise suppression, some times i find putting some stupid documentary on the tv about weevils, with a quiet volume, can send me off for a few hours.

Its not a good nights sleep but i'll take it.

I have insomnia sometimes too, I just manage it by snoozing when I can, for example if watching tv at night from 2200- 0000 I might snooze even if I didn't plan it and then can only sleep from 0300 to 0700.

I don't drink coffee that much and the caffeine in tea doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

Years ago I tried valerian as a tea and it worked, it wasn't nice but worked though I sort of went from being awake to near unconsciousness, far too drowsy for my liking so I don't use any sort of sleep aids, I like to keep my wits about me at all times. I often wake at the slightest sound and at any movement in the house and even outdoors, sometimes even wakened by things like a fox walking past outside or even a cat or a policeman, even though they aren't being loud it's like I sense them. Sometimes it feels like I am hypersensitive.

I suggest having a proper nighttime routine and forcing yourself to not sleep at all during the day. Make a point of showering / bathing at night, prior to that drink some chamomile and lavender tea and sort your bedroom and bed in a way that is relaxing, black out curtains, comfortable bedding, my preference is a warm but very lightweight duvet with northern nights heavyweight flannel, cool in summer, warm in winter, tactile and as soft as cotton wool, and soft fluffy pillows that keep their shape, like sleeping on a cloud. I prefer quiet for sleeping but some people need some sort of sound. Ensure the air flow is good, I like lots of fresh cool air at night but sometimes it adds to the hypersensitivity.

Another good thing is if worry or stress about things to do is an issue, write a list of things to do the next day, or daily, weekly, monthly lists, it helps to clear the mind.

Thank you so much everyone for your thoughtful replies!

I really want to do this drug free if I can. Pills aren't all bad, I just like to live without the assistance of chemicals. (Personal choice.)

I was up all night with a sick kiddo, so we'll see how tonight goes. I have taken several pieces of advice into consideration from here and will be taking them for test drives.

Much love to my ATS FAMILY out there!

a reply to: Biigs

by "zombified" you mean something we use to refer to as "brain fog" right?
well, yeah...sometimes, not every time I take it.

I used to take it even after 4-5 shots and everything was okay.
Because I had those weird feelings like.. when you drink 4-5 shots anytime between 8 and 11 PM and then you go to bed at around 2-3 AM you are getting sober and that feeling just sucks, the head is spinning and so on and so forth...
So when these feelings of getting sober kicked in, I started to feel really anxious and nervous, thus I was always thinking that what happens in case I won't fall asleep?.. "am I gonna lie down here all night getting sober and sober?, shaking and nervous??, seriously wtf, i need to drink, i need to piss, i need to do something, what happens in case I don't fall asleep, damn I'm gonna be tired tomorrow etc." like questions started to emerge, so I took Zolpidem and eventually fell asleep in a short period of time.

It's not an advice or something, but technically & hypothetically you CAN take sleeping pills and alcohol together, because they only ESCALE and MAXIMIZE the effect of each other, they both act on CNS, therefore you are gonna be more sleepy, more drowsy, less agile, less conscious, less motor-active, etc... basically, it will make you more... OUT.

It's not advised, because the high dosage could cause troubles, such as sleep apnea or when you would fall asleep with your head on your hand for example, you would be so out that your brain wouldn't recognize that your arm/hand is not getting enough oxygen and that might cause serious trouble, and waking up with an actual DEAD arm would be freaking bad.
'cause normally, you either wake up or you move in your sleep, whilst the combination of hypnotics and alcohol would cease that reflex.

Night # I don't even remember what # of nights without waking up at 3am. Hope you guys are faring better.

For the record, three is a very strange time of night to be awake. It is just eerie.