Adam Lanza's right back pocket was completely torn. He couldn't have carried 2 magazines in it.

a reply to: WanDash

Also - If I was trying to get something out of a pocket...and tore the pocket in the process...I wouldn't just move on to other chores

At the same time tho, if he did reach and tear, he could have just abandoned the use of the weapon and that is why the glock was used instead. Also if it was at this final moments, then again time would be of the essence.
His reload pace was fast enough as it is, would makes sense if wasn't wasting any time anywhere along the way

originally posted by: WanDash

originally posted by: Sremmos80
...And you keep saying it was completely torn, not sure how you can say that with the pics you supplied, the fold over blocks the vision of the rest of the pocket.
It is interesting tho.
And again, weight could have kept them in the pocket if they were positioned correctly. 14 rounds will have some weight to it.
The ripping of the pocket due to a reach does sound strange since that ammo was never used so it would be weird if he was reaching for it.
ETA: took out part about cargo pockets

I agree with these points. The photos do not give adequate evidence of 'how torn' the pockets are/were.

Although - I can't imagine anyone positioning those two clips in that pocket (in the torn state)...with an expectation of actually needing them...

And further - if, as was suggested, he tore the pocket while reaching for the clips...gotta wonder how one or both didn't fall out as a result (or - with almost any subsequent movement).

Also - If I was trying to get something out of a pocket...and tore the pocket in the process...I wouldn't just move on to other chores --- especially, if I was grabbing/clawing/whatever intensely enough to rip the fabric.

These are tactical pants. They probably should hold two magazines in each back pocket...when the pockets are intact.

The photos as a whole are compelling evidence that the right back pocket was too widely torn to have been holding those two magazines when investigators began collecting that evidence.

a reply to: Sremmos80
Too many unknowns (vagaries) to assess the relevant issues appropriately.
I can agree with "could have been"s, as long as they are thus qualified.
If, however, he had gone to the trouble of digging for the clips & tearing the pocket, determined to get them ---- they would have become easily accessible...after the tear...leaving no reason to 'switch to Plan B'.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
...These are tactical pants. They probably should hold two magazines in each back pocket...when the pockets are intact.

The photos as a whole are compelling evidence that the right back pocket was too widely torn to have been holding those two magazines when investigators began collecting that evidence.

If we had evidence that proved, conclusively, the extent of damage to that pocket...I might could agree with you.
Rather, I will have to wait until such evidence is presented (depth/length of pocket & extent of tear).
As it stands...I will give your proposition further consideration.
Thanks.

a reply to: WanDash

Agreed, it is a somewhat interesting point, just don't see this as any type of smoking gun.
At most IMO incompetence of evidence collection and labeling which it seems to be SOP when it comes to events like this.
And mothermayeye the pictures do not imply the pants were ripped beyond use. not unless you have picture where the crucial fold is not there

originally posted by: g146541
Does it really matter?
The schoolhouse (evidence) has been destroyed in front of the whole world under the pretense of "moving on with life"...
I still believe the multiple shooter theory and nobody will ever be able to disprove my theory either.
Since when do cops play fisherman and catch and release?

If you truly care anyway.

It matters to me.

Also, I think I might agree that there was more than one shooter. I'm not sold on any theory. But it's interesting that all the exterior/interior doors in the Lanza home were busted open -- some with battering ram imprints. Sure, it's possible police felt the need to do that after finding an ID on him tracing back to that home, but an alternative explanation is that multiple shooters knew about Adam's Aspergers dignosis (Healthcare database), his mom's NRA membership and weapons' purchase history (Registered gun owner databse), AND Adam's online forum history at the ShockedBeyondBelief Columbine forum (NSA); and they burst into his home, killed Nancy, kidnapped him (or killed him), took him to the school, and framed him.

Not sold on any theory, though. Certainly not the official one.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

All the doors were also locked/taped shut if i remember correctly from the pictures of the house
Would explain why they were kicked in/rammed open

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: WanDash
And mothermayeye the pictures do not imply the pants were ripped beyond use. not unless you have picture where the crucial fold is not there

It's only crucial on the portion of fabric that the pocket is on. You can see exactly how far the tear runs by looking at where the tear ends on the curved (butt) seam. Find that, then look over to the other side/pocket area to compare, and voila! You can see exactly how far that tear runs and it's obvious that the contents of the torn pocket would spill out at a pretty insignificant amount of imbalance.

Also, the very good point was made -- no one would put their magazines in such a badly damaged pocket.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: MotherMayEye

All the doors were also locked/taped shut if i remember correctly from the pictures of the house
Would explain why they were kicked in/rammed open

Once they were in the front door, why not just unlock the other doors and tear off the tape around them? Or just open the door because the tape would easily pull free with a very little effort.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Another great point was made in that the magazines may not been able to fit in the pocket and the damage was made by adam to make room for them, which makes sense to me as well.

And i looked at all the pictures that you posted, and i sorta of see the tear along the seam you speak of, but it also looks like fraying to me which does not prove to be a tear.

Again, that fold is in such a crucial place that it blocks the most of the "damage".

a reply to: MotherMayEye

why would the kidnappers feel they needed to kick in every door? Couldn't they have just came through one door?
Why cause excess damage that does not need to be done if you are carrying out a kidnapping mission.
Cops prob entered as one, coming in form multiple entry ways

I'm not sure what point all this silly bickering about minute details is all about, other than add even more confusion and controversy.
The facts are obfuscated; it's obvious the truth is not being told. What purpose will arguing over details accomplish? Will we be able to solve anything with only a small piece of the puzzle? Will the future be changed if you can prove there has been a cover up?
Once again, the facts and evidence have become a moot point. Sad, but that's the way it is.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: MotherMayEye

why would the kidnappers feel they needed to kick in every door? Couldn't they have just came through one door?
Why cause excess damage that does not need to be done if you are carrying out a kidnapping mission.
Cops prob entered as one, coming in form multiple entry ways

Correct. As I said earlier, police could have had some reason to batter through all of them. But I don't have proof of who battered through them, so I stated an alternative theory.

originally posted by: nugget1
I'm not sure what point all this silly bickering about minute details is all about, other than add even more confusion and controversy.
The facts are obfuscated; it's obvious the truth is not being told. What purpose will arguing over details accomplish? Will we be able to solve anything with only a small piece of the puzzle? Will the future be changed if you can prove there has been a cover up?
Once again, the facts and evidence have become a moot point. Sad, but that's the way it is.

Sad for you, not for me. I think a pile of puzzle pieces will solve this and many other conspiratorial crimes. I am happy to contribute to that pile. It matters to me and probably everyone else wanting to read about them.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

So you can 'prove' there is a cover-up. JFK...911...WMD...Benghazi....I don't need to list all of the 'known' cover-ups to point out there is nothing you-or anybody else- can or will do by rehashing details that don't add up. We know we're being deceived, and there is not a darn thing anybody can or will do to change the course we are on.
Sorry for being cynical, but I see page after page of argumentative bloviating, and not one single suggestion for a viable solution. It is what it is, and as long as people are willing to focus on insignificant details, we give those in control ultimate power.
It is way to easy to fall into the 'divide and conquer' path by giving the little details more emphasis than the big picture.

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: MotherMayEye

So you can 'prove' there is a cover-up. JFK...911...WMD...Benghazi....I don't need to list all of the 'known' cover-ups to point out there is nothing you-or anybody else- can or will do by rehashing details that don't add up. We know we're being deceived, and there is not a darn thing anybody can or will do to change the course we are on.
Sorry for being cynical, but I see page after page of argumentative bloviating, and not one single suggestion for a viable solution. It is what it is, and as long as people are willing to focus on insignificant details, we give those in control ultimate power.
It is way to easy to fall into the 'divide and conquer' path by giving the little details more emphasis than the big picture.

I've been at this a long time. I understand your apathy, but you will never retreat into it. Mock me if you want, but you are here, at ATS. You aren't above hashing and rehashing all of it.

As long as we cannot put our finger on it, they will win. As soon as we do, it will be over. They know this so they flood the public with disinformation.

This is a direct observation.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: MotherMayEye

...Another great point was made in that the magazines may not been able to fit in the pocket and the damage was made by adam to make room for them, which makes sense to me as well.

...

I, actually, thought that suggestion was kinda weak...in that - the left back pocket was purportedly carrying a duplicate load (two clips)...and it had not been 'altered'... So - if two magazines of the same size & weight were fitted into a duplicate pocket...it doesn't seem likely that he would need to have ripped/torn/altered the twin pocket to make room.

originally posted by: WanDash

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: MotherMayEye

...Another great point was made in that the magazines may not been able to fit in the pocket and the damage was made by adam to make room for them, which makes sense to me as well.

...

I, actually, thought that suggestion was kinda weak...in that - the left back pocket was purportedly carrying a duplicate load (two clips)...and it had not been 'altered'... So - if two magazines of the same size & weight were fitted into a duplicate pocket...it doesn't seem likely that he would need to have ripped/torn/altered the twin pocket to make room.

Yes!^

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Nm

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Nm

lol...my fault.