Detroit's horrifying collapse accelerating beyond belief

a reply to: SheopleNation

You are spot on with this.

I remember Wilson Middle School on the SW side of Detroit as a kid. It had about 600 students (give or take). There were metal detectors, police officers (one with a dog), and a guard station to pass just to enter the main hallway.

I was fortunate enough to be placed into an advanced class. Our studies were more difficult than the average student and placement in the class was competitive. There were whites, blacks, and Hispanics in the class with me ( about the same mix as the rest of the school). The difference between us and the rest of the kids was we actually wanted to be there to learn and the teachers knew that. Of all my classmates the vast majority went on to college and decent jobs. Which is very different than our peers in the "general population"

It is about desire to learn. Throwing money at the problem is not going to solve the issue. Blaming the teachers (who fear for their lives most days) will not solve the problem. PARENTS must instill in their children a DESIRE to learn from an early age and they MUST take and ACTIVE part in that education. Without that happening the future generations are doomed.

a reply to: 200Plus

"PARENTS must instill in their children",,what about the bad child,,how do u raise the bad ones?

instill? through enviroment one instills,,it is the neighbour hood that "instills",,when u walk in fear?,that instills.

a parent is a refuge from,,being instiilled.

a reply to: BobAthome

And that is why we have parents saying "my baby never....." on the news every night, or "the schools system should have", or my favorite one "somebody has a responsibility to pay for my children".

It's is a parents role to raise kids. Granted there are going to be the ones that are disturbed mentally. However, the cause of the problem is parents either not knowing how to raise kids or not caring. That or trying to be their kids friend rather than their parent.

When I was in the Army they always told me "there is no such thing as a bad soldier, only leadership failures". Parenting is the same thing (minus psychopaths of course).

+EDIT - the neighborhood cannot bear the blame as it is comprised of people. I grew up in the same neighborhoods we are discussing and I am not a criminal nor am I a junkie, nor a statistic. I made a choice to better myself because I had parents that made time to put me on the right path (even though they weren't on that path themselves).

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: 200Plus

"PARENTS must instill in their children",,what about the bad child,,how do u raise the bad ones?

instill? through enviroment one instills,,it is the neighbour hood that "instills",,when u walk in fear?,that instills.

a parent is a refuge from,,being instiilled.

Either the parents get private tutors, or the school brings in classroom assistants to give them personalized tuition to bring those "bad students" up to speed with the rest of the class.

My gosh, what a waste...

Just for the heck of it, I looked up various residential properties for sale in Detroit and could not believe the sheer volume of homes for sale and the insanely low price points.

One that I looked at is an awesome mansion on Balmoral Drive in a place called Palmer Woods. Over 15k square footage with a list price of $1.5 mil, where in any other major metro it would list for at least $10 mil or more.

Obviously it was some Robber Baron's jewel. Built in 1926...point being that you would think some National or Local Historical Society would purchase this place for the arch. value alone.

Turn it into a school or public center of some sort so the history could be maintained, and help people at the same time.

Most everyone in our Country is hurting from this economy, but there must be a way to help this pitiful place.

a reply to: Missmissie173

You have to realize that Detroit used to have vast amounts of money. We have several neighborhoods that are comprised of "mansions" and estates. Growing up, all my friends on W. Grand Blvd had "servant's stairs" going from the kitchen to the second floor, "servant's quarters" in the back of the house, dumb waiters, and grand staircases in the entrance. They were just as poor as we were, it's just the house they lived in was in a nicer area. Almost all those home have been torn down now. There was no call to "save" a normal house.

The areas being saved downtown were the homes of the "crème" of the auto industry I would imagine. Shipping magnates and gangsters are scattered in to add spice. While Ford himself had his Estates in Dearborn the "high rollers" lived downtown and along the Detroit River. I saw a map not long ago of Detroit around the 30's-40's. It showed all the homes of the rich/famous people. I'll try to find it again, but no promises.

originally posted by: 200Plus

I was fortunate enough to be placed into an advanced class. Our studies were more difficult than the average student and placement in the class was competitive. There were whites, blacks, and Hispanics in the class with me ( about the same mix as the rest of the school). The difference between us and the rest of the kids was we actually wanted to be there to learn and the teachers knew that. Of all my classmates the vast majority went on to college and decent jobs. Which is very different than our peers in the "general population"

It is about desire to learn. Throwing money at the problem is not going to solve the issue. Blaming the teachers (who fear for their lives most days) will not solve the problem. PARENTS must instill in their children a DESIRE to learn from an early age and they MUST take and ACTIVE part in that education. Without that happening the future generations are doomed.

I have to agree with your take, but how does one break the ring of chaos?

Many of the kids in inner city Detroit and the suburbs are smart kids, but they just don't have a stable environment to study, or even live.

IMO if the schools can provide at least 8 hours of peace, including 2 meals a day Breakfast/Lunch, then maybe they will have a fighting chance. The schools will have to have rules in place, and the staff to enforce them, but a couple of decades of tough love can stop the cycle of ignorance and violence, with education and hope.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: 200Plus

I was fortunate enough to be placed into an advanced class. Our studies were more difficult than the average student and placement in the class was competitive. There were whites, blacks, and Hispanics in the class with me ( about the same mix as the rest of the school). The difference between us and the rest of the kids was we actually wanted to be there to learn and the teachers knew that. Of all my classmates the vast majority went on to college and decent jobs. Which is very different than our peers in the "general population"

It is about desire to learn. Throwing money at the problem is not going to solve the issue. Blaming the teachers (who fear for their lives most days) will not solve the problem. PARENTS must instill in their children a DESIRE to learn from an early age and they MUST take and ACTIVE part in that education. Without that happening the future generations are doomed.

I have to agree with your take, but how does one break the ring of chaos?

Many of the kids in inner city Detroit and the suburbs are smart kids, but they just don't have a stable environment to study, or even live.

IMO if the schools can provide at least 8 hours of peace, including 2 meals a day Breakfast/Lunch, then maybe they will have a fighting chance. The schools will have to have rules in place, and the staff to enforce them, but a couple of decades of tough love can stop the cycle of ignorance and violence, with education and hope.

Yup another story of I did it so can they. As if we all have the same circumstances in life. For someone that's suppose to be smart he sure has a one dimensional way of thinking. Just because your smart don't mean your going to succeed in life. I have a friend that is a Mensa member with a masters digree and he works at the dollar store for minimum wage.

originally posted by: wantsome
Just because your smart don't mean your going to succeed in life. I have a friend that is a Mensa member with a masters digree and he works at the dollar store for minimum wage.

Very true.

but smart is a subjective term.

Education provides the essentials and tools to make it in life, what the individual does via their own motivation is up to them.

I have friends and some family members that have the equivalent of an 8th grade education, but they are extremely successful because they believe in themselves and are extremely motivated.

Some of the ghetto children have zero hope, don't believe they can ever make it out, and have many people around them re-enforcing ignorance. Belief in oneself is very important, regardless what people think and say around us.

Peace,

RT

a reply to: 200Plus

i quote "It's is a parents role to raise kids" i assume u mean educate,,

if so then why not give parents the funds to do so?. The average cost to educate a child is ~30,thousand a child,, per year,,,give a parent 30 thousand a year to raise and educate,,per child,,,,,and then put the responsabilitiy directly on the parent.

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: Missmissie173

You have to realize that Detroit used to have vast amounts of money. We have several neighborhoods that are comprised of "mansions" and estates. Growing up, all my friends on W. Grand Blvd had "servant's stairs" going from the kitchen to the second floor, "servant's quarters" in the back of the house, dumb waiters, and grand staircases in the entrance. They were just as poor as we were, it's just the house they lived in was in a nicer area. Almost all those home have been torn down now. There was no call to "save" a normal house.

The areas being saved downtown were the homes of the "crème" of the auto industry I would imagine. Shipping magnates and gangsters are scattered in to add spice. While Ford himself had his Estates in Dearborn the "high rollers" lived downtown and along the Detroit River. I saw a map not long ago of Detroit around the 30's-40's. It showed all the homes of the rich/famous people. I'll try to find it again, but no promises.

Hi 200:

I would love it if you find that map! No pressure though!

I have traveled quite a bit for business and pleasure, but I have only been in Detroit on layovers...wish I could have seen the city.

BTW, the Mansion I mentioned in my post on Balmoral was owned by Alfred Fisher, one of seven brothers that started Fisher Body in 1908. From what I researched, several of the Fisher Bros owned Mansions in Palmer Woods. This mansion has been on and off the market for the past several years, once as low as $375,000 when it was in foreclosure.

It is hard to imagine the kind of wealth that built this type of home and circulated in this city. Now it looks like a ghost town.

Since you are familiar with Detroit, is the mass decay everywhere, or just rural not suburban?

I knew Detroit was bad, but not this bad...I feel some shame for not knowing this going on in our Country.

I want to find a way to help.

originally posted by: NeoSpace
Would it not benefit both the banks and communities if instead of a foreclosure where everone loses, communities are ruind, homes are left to rot and become worthless, the banks should agree to accept maby 50% or even 25% of the monthly repayments.

Not everyone loses, not by a long shot. What most people don't realize is that the banks come out smelling like roses on these deals. The real losers are you, I and everyone else.

The banks have absolutely no incentive to discount what is owed on the house, or to accept less money for it. When the owner defaults...the bank just collects the insurance on their investment. This is the "PMI" many people pay as part of their mortgage (i.e. private mortgage insurance). Not one cent of that money goes to the principal of the loan. When more people default, insurance rates just go up to cover the losses. The banks don't lose...you do! And, it even gets worse....

Let's take one of these houses in the slideshow as an example. Buyer #1 comes along and takes out a mortgage with Bank #1. (we'll keep it short here to illustrate the point). Buyer #1 gets in financial trouble and defaults on the mortgage. Bank #1 forecloses on Buyer #1, but Buyer #1 is broke and declares bankruptcy (or whatever). Bank #1 auctions off said house on the courthouse steps and the selling price is usually a fraction of what is owed. Nine times out of ten the only bidder on said house is none other than Bank #1 (most times no one else even bothers to show up). Bank #1 then turns the difference between the appraised value and the purchase price in to the insurance company and is compensated for the same.

Deed in hand, Bank #1 sells the property in the discount/distressed market off to Bank #2. Bank #1 is now out of the picture, but they've made most if not all of their money back, plus (unbelievably) even a profit in many cases. Bank #2 then finds Buyer #2 for the same house and the process...repeats itself all over again for Bank #2. Bank #2 even comes out smelling like a rose also. This process can repeat itself several times. Several TIMES the market value for the house has been taken (extracted) out of it. In each case the banks get their money...and each time you and I paid for it!!

The endless cycle above only ends when the structure is in such disrepair (or completely destroyed) to the point where it's a larger liability than it is a cash cow.

In the background the banks are all screaming about the huges losses they're taking in the secondary market (all the while cooking the books)...and low and behold the US government turns around and declares them "too big to fail" and bails their sorry behinds out of a ficticious debt. In reality all of the profits have been siphoned off into hedge funds for all the boys on Wall Street to play with to see if they can trade in their 80 foot yacht for a 140 foot yacht and a vacation cottage in the hamptons!

Slideshows like this shouldn't make people sad...they should make people mad! Fighting mad!

originally posted by: BobAthome

American Business used too be best in the world,,

$850 MILLION AMERICAN $'S up for grabs. Backed by the American Government.

and no American business leader can put together a simple plan?

maybe they should open up bidding,, world wide???

Funny you should mention that...... There was a Private, Fully funded (no government funds) private iniative to tear down homes, the new Mayor, Duggan, didn't like the people running it (weren't his people/cronies) so he bascially forced them to stop doing the private non profit venture in lieu of a City run program. Read this Article

Government and even some citizens can't but help to get in the way of Private Non Profits trying to do it for them in Detroit.

I once was with my Son's High School planting trees with a non profit in a portion of Detroit without many trees left in the area, residents were bitching about "Great, now I'll have to rake those leaves". Old habits die hard.

a reply to: BobAthome

I meant raise, as in give them basic life skills.

It is a teacher's job to teach, it is a parent's job to parent. Although a parent should be teaching their kids, a teacher should never be parenting other people's children.

What good do you think would come from giving every parent in Detroit 30K? Do you honestly believe the people would use that to educate their children? Maybe the ones that currently take an active role in their child's education/life, but they are not the problem. 90% of the people here would buy rims/cars/rock and then come back and say the government failed to educate their children. Or they would claim they didn't understand what the money could be used for and they need a second chance.

a reply to: Missmissie173

The blight like it is seen in this thread is only in the city limits. There are hundreds of empty houses in the suburbs but the houses there are generally not ransacked for scrap (which is what leads to this rapid decay). That being said it is like a cancer that is creeping outwards. 20 years ago Detroit was bad but the Rouge River was a boundary to the suburbs. The collapse/blight hit Ecourse and River Rouge (two cities next to Detroit) and it is making it way into Melvindale and Lincoln Park (two further outlying cities). I stay mostly on the SW side, so my experiences will be biased towards this area. I cannot imagine the rest of the surrounding cities being any different though.

I was in Detroit 7 years ago for a funeral. Stayed a couple of days in "the hood". The highlight was seeing an ambulance forcing every car to the side with lights and sirens blasting, only to pull into a Burger King drive-thru to place an order. The city reminded of the unstructured wild-wild west where you could have a lot of high-risk fun if you're a hell-raiser.

I'm going back there in September for a 3 day family reunion at a suburban hotel and park. Hopefully, they will still be there! LOL.
-cwm

a reply to: 200Plus

I appreciate that. I like what you had to say as well. If you really think about it, upbringing is everything.

The outside environment will always play it's part too though, especially during the Teenage years.

Keeping young people occupied with something positive after school provides a successful hand hold while attempting to reach that goal. I have witnessed it myself.

Sports is one road for hope. We just need to find more things that these kids might be interested in. Like we said before, you can't force someone to be educated. ~$heopleNation

Detroit has seen a decline this the late 90's even into the mid 2000's. There are many nice homes in the Detroit area that could be restored. Beautiful homes in the Detroit area. But it is because of the black community who is so hooked on drugs and their own pityfulness that no one will go into the Detroit are to restore.
Detroit has to only blame it's own citizens. Stop the drugs, the gangs, and whatever else, and it will become the city that it once was. Speaking as someone who lived in the out skirts of Detroit for 8 years. It's a tragic place. No one to blame but it's current inhabitants.

I lived on the out skirts of Detroit for 8 years. A sad state of affairs. Let the US government take over the city and replace it with something better. Detroit is dead.

I just remembered the Clint Eastwood movie Gran Torino...the Hmong community is portrayed in the movie as a strong willed, family oriented and elder structured society.

Are the Hmong's politically active in Detroit?

I have seen other Southeast Asian American's re-structure other failing communities (albeit pockets of cities, not entire cities).

I may be naive, but this particular ethnic group seems all about rules and boundaries, two things Detroit appears to need to have any hope of survival.

Detroit reminds me of a immature teenager out of control and lost, and everyone feeding the addictions.