What's with all the hate for Paul?

a reply to: winterkill

Jesus did not say "keep and teach the jewish laws"

in fact he broke a good portion of them...

He said if you want to be great in the kingdom, be humble...

The first will be last, and the last will be first

originally posted by: colbe
We are NOT Christ, Christ is God, we are one of His creation. God has one plan, so no need of various man-made
beliefs. Our Lord Jesus Christ established one faith, one Church. His desire is that you come to the faith. Pray, ask His help, He will give it to you.

New Age is nonsense.

The human body is a creation of God. We are not the human body, we are The Spirit within the human body that God breathed into it.

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" - 1 Corinthians 6:19

The human body is just the temple for The Spirit and The Spirit is Love. The human body does unloving things, and the mind can have unloving thoughts and intentions but The Spirit is Love and The Spirit is perfect.

originally posted by: arpgme

originally posted by: colbe
We are NOT Christ, Christ is God, we are one of His creation. God has one plan, so no need of various man-made
beliefs. Our Lord Jesus Christ established one faith, one Church. His desire is that you come to the faith. Pray, ask His help, He will give it to you.

New Age is nonsense.

The human body is a creation of God. We are not the human body, we are The Spirit within the human body that God breathed into it.

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" - 1 Corinthians 6:19

The human body is just the temple for The Spirit and The Spirit is Love. The human body does unloving things, and the mind can have unloving thoughts and intentions but The Spirit is Love and The Spirit is perfect.

Love your avatar pic.

We aren't God the Holy Spirit, we are God's creation. God (the Holy Spirit) dwells in you after water Baptism if
you are free of mortal sin on your soul. God cannot be where sin is...

Daily prayer, true repentance and confession of your mortal sins to God for the life of your soul. Catholics
must go to Confession.


You are dear, GBY,

Because Apostle Paul conjured teachings that seemed to have contradicted every teaching of Jesus.

You can only begin to see if if you're not blinded by Christian religious dogmas.

Jesus warned against people who will meet "him" in the wilderness. Just where did Paul met "jesus"??

Is salvation by faith only? Is it okay to be rich?

originally posted by: johndeere2020
Because Apostle Paul conjured teachings that seemed to have contradicted every teaching of Jesus.

You can only begin to see if if you're not blinded by Christian religious dogmas.

Jesus warned against people who will meet "him" in the wilderness. Just where did Paul met "jesus"??

Is salvation by faith only? Is it okay to be rich?

"Conjured"....?

"religious dogmas"...

First, about "dogmas", some dogmas and some doctrines come from God. They are His Truth to be believed.

The Bible is inerrant for it is inspired by God, that includes Paul's writings. The God given authority of the Church
to interpret Scripture is the answer. Accept her authority, then not one verse in the Old or New Testament conflicts with another.

Read the footnotes of the Douay-Rheims Bible, a help to understanding difficult verses and some (for not everything God has revealed is found in the written Word) of the why concerning Church teaching. www.drbo.org...

GBY John Deere,

originally posted by: colbe
The Bible is inerrant for it is inspired by God, that includes Paul's writings. The God given authority of the Church
to interpret Scripture is the answer. Accept her authority, then not one verse in the Old or New Testament conflicts with another.

Read the footnotes of the Douay-Rheims Bible, a help to understanding difficult verses and some (for not everything God has revealed is found in the written Word) of the why concerning Church teaching. www.drbo.org...

GBY John Deere,

I'm sorry but I've been a Christian for over 20 years now. All those 20 years I believed the Bible to be inerrant.

One day, I sat down, still believing the Bible is inerrant. Read it like there's no tomorrow....

But oh my.. I can't believe what I'm seeing....


Recently, I worked in the field of Quality Assurance in both software testing and data analysis, handling millions of data points for well over 6 years...

This gave me the "eye" for errors, flaws, and seeing patterns that would lead to the culprit. It made me a detective of sorts..


Random inconsistencies doesn't bother me but consistent inconsistencies especially coming from specific sources.

So why did Paul's teachings appeared consistently contradictory against the teachings of Jesus?

Yes, you can try to reconcile the contradictions.... ...But why it's coming from the same person over and over?

Why is the behavior of Jesus that Paul claimed to meet in the desert acted peculiar??

Jesus never introduced himself in a manner like "I am Jesus" but only to Paul. Jesus never mentioned His own name before but only when He met Paul. Jesus either said "I am" or "Son of Man"

Jesus warned us against meeting Him in the Wilderness.. Which Paul did.

There's quite a mountain of literature and behavioral patterns that appear to discredit Paul as a genuine apostle.

Under my terms, I'm giving Paul a 90% probability of being a false apostle.

originally posted by: johndeere2020

originally posted by: colbe
The Bible is inerrant for it is inspired by God, that includes Paul's writings. The God given authority of the Church
to interpret Scripture is the answer. Accept her authority, then not one verse in the Old or New Testament conflicts with another.

Read the footnotes of the Douay-Rheims Bible, a help to understanding difficult verses and some (for not everything God has revealed is found in the written Word) of the why concerning Church teaching. www.drbo.org...

GBY John Deere,

I'm sorry but I've been a Christian for over 20 years now. All those 20 years I believed the Bible to be inerrant.

One day, I sat down, still believing the Bible is inerrant. Read it like there's no tomorrow....

But oh my.. I can't believe what I'm seeing....


Recently, I worked in the field of Quality Assurance in both software testing and data analysis, handling millions of data points for well over 6 years...

This gave me the "eye" for errors, flaws, and seeing patterns that would lead to the culprit. It made me a detective of sorts..


Random inconsistencies doesn't bother me but consistent inconsistencies especially coming from specific sources.

So why did Paul's teachings appeared consistently contradictory against the teachings of Jesus?

Yes, you can try to reconcile the contradictions.... ...But why it's coming from the same person over and over?

Why is the behavior of Jesus that Paul claimed to meet in the desert acted peculiar??

Jesus never introduced himself in a manner like "I am Jesus" but only to Paul. Jesus never mentioned His own name before but only when He met Paul. Jesus either said "I am" or "Son of Man"

Jesus warned us against meeting Him in the Wilderness.. Which Paul did.

There's quite a mountain of literature and behavioral patterns that appear to discredit Paul as a genuine apostle.

Under my terms, I'm giving Paul a 90% probability of being a false apostle.

Jesus said 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied.

By leaving off the full reply, you destroy what is being communicated. Where did Paul persecute Jesus? Was it not in his frenzied pursuit of Christians?

In the exact same way, Jesus did not warn us about "meeting him in the wilderness". By substituting your own words, you nullify heavenly understanding by substituting your own words of what you think the passage to say instead of what it actually says.

The same argument needs to be made to the Catholic promoter. They hear nothing but their Church dogma. Each passage is interpreted by their Church and thus - like Peter - have on their minds the words of men, not the things of God.

originally posted by: colbe
This is why St. Paul is hated?

St. Paul follows Our Lord, there is ONE Faith. "Oneness", unity of belief is a mark of Roman Catholicism. St. Paul says, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph. 4:4-6).

There is NO unity of belief in non-Catholic Christianity. There's been a new sect established every week since the revolt from the Faith, October 31, 1517!

Protestants must think their professed "invisible Church" is one. Tee hee.

Since when is unity of belief proof of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church's professed claim that they are the faith? Mormons are united in belief, Freemasons are united in belief, atheists, Muslims, tribes in Africa.....all are united in beliefs. As such, unity in belief like Catholicism is proof of nothing. Men are united in falsehood all over this world. Why does scripture make mention of a spirit of error? Do you not think that this spirit of error unites people into groups? Of course it does. How about in the days of Noah when the whole world had lost the way and continually thought wickedly? What unity of belief caused this? The spirit of error keeps people united in falsehood and untruth so that they never pursue the Truth. Thinking they have the truth, they exercise zero discernment. Any person can pull out the reams and reams of books containing the catchechisms and official proubouncements made over the centuries by the leaders of Roman Catholicism. They fill bookshelves and the minds of Roman Catholics. Yet there still remains the Bible long forgotten gathering dust in the corner. So what is it that Roman Catholics follow ? Men and their interpretations. It is these men and their interpretations that give understanding to the Catholics. You are united in their beliefs. What they said you believe. But is it what God says? Does not Jesus Christ warn men of religious leaders...does He not tell us that the birds roost in the tree as it grows big...that the religious leaders make their converts twice the children of hell...and that disciples like Peter who have their minds on the things of men are Satans and that Nicolaitians are despised, those that divide churches into laity and priests instead of all bring brethren?


The Spirit of Truth or the spirit of error.
Both produce UNITY

originally posted by: Year1

In the exact same way, Jesus did not warn us about "meeting him in the wilderness". By substituting your own words, you nullify heavenly understanding by substituting your own words of what you think the passage to say instead of what it actually says.

Matt 24:26-27
“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.


What did Paul said to the council?? "I saw Jesus on the road to Damascus" which is cutting through a wilderness desert.

Jesus said 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied.

Where else in the Bible Jesus introduced Himself as Jesus? Nowhere else.

Jesus always introduced Himself as "I am" or the "Son of Man".

Even more interesting is that no one called Jesus by His name in the Bible. People would often call Him teacher or rabbi. We only read his name mentioned by the narrator / writer of the books of the Bible.



These are strange behavior of Jesus against Paul. Paul may have met someone else, not Jesus. No one else in the Bible called Him Jesus but the author of the books of NT.

These are suspicious patterns I can't deny. It seems to be evidence of tampering with scriptures.

originally posted by: Year1

originally posted by: colbe
This is why St. Paul is hated?

St. Paul follows Our Lord, there is ONE Faith. "Oneness", unity of belief is a mark of Roman Catholicism. St. Paul says, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph. 4:4-6).

There is NO unity of belief in non-Catholic Christianity. There's been a new sect established every week since the revolt from the Faith, October 31, 1517!

Protestants must think their professed "invisible Church" is one. Tee hee.

Since when is unity of belief proof of Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church's professed claim that they are the faith? Mormons are united in belief, Freemasons are united in belief, atheists, Muslims, tribes in Africa.....all are united in beliefs. As such, unity in belief like Catholicism is proof of nothing. Men are united in falsehood all over this world. Why does scripture make mention of a spirit of error? Do you not think that this spirit of error unites people into groups? Of course it does. How about in the days of Noah when the whole world had lost the way and continually thought wickedly? What unity of belief caused this? The spirit of error keeps people united in falsehood and untruth so that they never pursue the Truth. Thinking they have the truth, they exercise zero discernment. Any person can pull out the reams and reams of books containing the catchechisms and official proubouncements made over the centuries by the leaders of Roman Catholicism. They fill bookshelves and the minds of Roman Catholics. Yet there still remains the Bible long forgotten gathering dust in the corner. So what is it that Roman Catholics follow ? Men and their interpretations. It is these men and their interpretations that give understanding to the Catholics. You are united in their beliefs. What they said you believe. But is it what God says? Does not Jesus Christ warn men of religious leaders...does He not tell us that the birds roost in the tree as it grows big...that the religious leaders make their converts twice the children of hell...and that disciples like Peter who have their minds on the things of men are Satans and that Nicolaitians are despised, those that divide churches into laity and priests instead of all bring brethren?


The Spirit of Truth or the spirit of error.
Both produce UNITY

Year1,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. If I could put it on your heart I would, to study the Faith, Roman Catholicism.
So much is out there. Important to search first with "Catholic Apologetics" typed before your question or subject
concerning the Faith. You want Catholic writings. Read the autobiographies. I have one to suggest. A brilliant woman, she was Jewish by chance read the autobiography of Teresa of Avilla. She converted, became a Carmalite sister and died in Auschwitz!! Her name was Edith Stein. Read the footnotes of a Catholic Bible. www.drbo.org...

"Unity" of believe is just one mark...proof to show Roman Catholicism is the Faith of Ephesians 4:5.

There are four marks to prove it is the Faith, RC is the Church established by Christ: The Church is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.

The teachings of Christ do not change, if you believe the Church, they profess the teachings of Christ. There's
your oneness of belief. End of times, loss of faith, persecution and to get worse shows another sign, Roman
Catholicism is the Faith.

The Church is holy, God gives signs to bring people to the Faith. 99.8% of the miraculous point to Christ and
His Church. The famous science tested miracles are all Roman Catholic. The summit, is Christ's presence in
the Eucharist. God gives you Himself, now that is holy. The Eucharist is supernatural. Believe. If you can,
than all the rest will fall into place.

The Church is Catholic (universal) worldwide. Ignatius, 2nd Bishop of Antioch who knew as a boy, beloved John used the term "Catholic" for the first time.

The Church is Apostolic, by the laying on of hands from the Apostles called Apostolic succession. Read the
verse before Matt 16:18 before OUr Lord named Peter head of His Church (singular) on earth. Our Lord told
Peter in Matt 16:17, "only the Father has revealed this to you." See, God guides His chosen authority. a
You and me can be assured, all the world.




GBY Year1 ~ ~

a reply to: Year1

Paul acknowledged himself as an apostle. None of the originals apostles acknowledged him as as apostle.

a reply to: deadeyedick

It seems to me that the People who disagree with Paul are the same people who believe in the Hollywood, effeminate, long haired, hippie, unbiblical Jesus, like the one from the movie "Son of God". There are people who call themselves "Red Letter Christians" who only believe in what Jesus said, hence the name "Red Letter Christians". The problem with that is... what Bible version's red letters, because they aren't all the same. The red lettering is put in at the discretion of the person translating. This is why in some Bible versions have, for example, John 3:16 in red letters, and in others it is in black letters. The coloring of the words is not what is inspired by the Holy Spirit, but the words are, every single one of them including what Paul said in his epistles. The main reason some people reject Paul is because Paul expounded upon what Jesus taught, and Paul preached HARD on sin. Most people cannot bare to be confronted with their sin, and so they choose to reject his teachings instead of humbling themselves and accepting the truth. If you reject Paul then you also reject the LORD Jesus Christ. Period.

originally posted by: OptimusSubprime
a reply to: deadeyedick

It seems to me that the People who disagree with Paul are the same people who believe in the Hollywood, effeminate, long haired, hippie, unbiblical Jesus, like the one from the movie "Son of God". There are people who call themselves "Red Letter Christians" who only believe in what Jesus said, hence the name "Red Letter Christians". The problem with that is... what Bible version's red letters, because they aren't all the same. The red lettering is put in at the discretion of the person translating. This is why in some Bible versions have, for example, John 3:16 in red letters, and in others it is in black letters. The coloring of the words is not what is inspired by the Holy Spirit, but the words are, every single one of them including what Paul said in his epistles. The main reason some people reject Paul is because Paul expounded upon what Jesus taught, and Paul preached HARD on sin. Most people cannot bare to be confronted with their sin, and so they choose to reject his teachings instead of humbling themselves and accepting the truth. If you reject Paul then you also reject the LORD Jesus Christ. Period.

I'm afraid that this is an excellent example of why I hate religion so much. Talking about 'sin' makes me annoyed at the inferences.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg It has become clear to me that their are certain points that are made by paul and his suggestions that most people miss due to the nature of accepted culture. The bible has been givin to us from basicaly two points of view and both have merit and hold their own magical properties that lie within the words. These two seperate paths lead to the necessary fringe but in order to rise above the world only one is a true path and is not made for all. There is a certain amount of suffering in all aspects of life that is necessary for the glory of all. No one will be left behind but by choice.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

If you reject Paul then you also reject the LORD Jesus Christ. Period.

That is called an outright lie...

Jesus' words stand on their own... No one needs to accept Pauls teachings to accept what Jesus said...

Not even Christians... period

From your own mouth in an old thread of mine...

Yes because the faith is centered on Christ... not Paul, or it would be called Paulstianatity

Can you reject Paul and still be a Christian

Get your story straight... and don't fall back on what you've been taught

a reply to: Akragon

Perhaps members do not go around telling outright lies and maybe you missed the point that Jesus's words are the same as paul's and if you reject paul's words in entirety then much of Jesus's words would fall under the same set of reasoning you used on paul's words.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Well no... they are not the same

In fact Paul taught nothing of Jesus... he had his own doctrine...

Like Faith alone... which is nothing even close to what Jesus taught

Telling people that to reject Paul is to reject Jesus is a lie... its as simple as that...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: deadeyedick



Well no... they are not the same



In fact Paul taught nothing of Jesus... he had his own doctrine...



Like Faith alone... which is nothing even close to what Jesus taught



Telling people that to reject Paul is to reject Jesus is a lie... its as simple as that...

Let's be honest here. It is only a lie if it is proven that the member believes the same as you do and interputs the word exactly as you. It is pretty low to go throwing around the word lie when refering to someones interputation of the book of words. I hold the same view that paul's message is from Jesus teachings and that he was far closer to Jesus than you or i. it is a fact however that in pauls words he expressed that he was expounding of Jesus's words.
Bottom line is it would be real cool if you could refrain from the name calling because it is all just interputing and we all get that you feel you are right.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Alright... technically I did not call him a liar... what he said IS a lie... even by his own words which I posted as evidence

As you've stated, its not like he is going around tossing out lies to deceive the AS membership... but none the less Saying to reject Paul is to reject Jesus IS in fact a lie

Same as the idea that the bible is inerrant... regardless of what anyone might believe or what they've been taught... its not true

Paul never met Jesus, and he taught nothing of what Jesus taught... He didn't expound on Jesus' teaching either... he pulled his own belief system into play, and made his own rules

Which is why you won't find a single thing Jesus taught within Pauls books...

One can argue the facts... but they remain...

The words of Jesus found in the gospels stand on their own... without the OT... without Paul... or any of the apostles...

that is a fact...

I will type slow this time so maybe you can grasp my point. The bible can be interputed in many ways. Some interputations seem to fit more closely to our personality than others. When someone interputs usually they are not set out to tell lies but to convey the message they got. It is a shame to humanity for someone to go around beliving that others are knowingly telling lies. The more plausable explanation is that they see something that you do not. Just as i stated that you believe firmly in your mental grasp of the word others here have just as much of a grasp on their beliefs and we would be better served if we would make an effort to see that it is all just interputations instead of getting our rocks off because we believe we just caught someone knowingly misleading someone out of some agendea to lie. To be honest it will get us nowhere to call much of the world liars when in the same book it is said that many will be decieved. I submit that this deception comes by way of ones who believe they are right and not by ones that knowingly tell lies. He made a point and you missed it that does not negate the seemingly contridictory statement but reenforces the question of did you get the whole message or did you jump right to off with the liars head.