It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

What's with all the hate for Paul?

page: 8
10
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 27 2014 @ 03:37 PM
link   
a reply to: Seede

I could, but the premise of the thread was why do you hate Paul. So let's just focus on him.

My theory is Paul faked his conversion and blindness for his own gain...for power. Christianity then became his cult in the manner that Koresh with the branch davidians. Timothy and everyone else in Paul's time were just brainwashed cultists. Jesus said things like there is only one commandment love thy neighbor and that sort of thing. Paul was more about adding rules and sort of circumventing Jesus's core teachings. In line enough with them to be taken seriously as a disciple of Jesus but off enough to distort the true message. Again, just my theory but I have never liked Paul or his teachings. I think he distorted, changed and hijacked Christianity.

I therefore postulate that without Paul, the bible would have been much smaller, easier to read, more inspirational and less contradictory and violent. That IS the way Jesus would have wanted it.




posted on May, 27 2014 @ 04:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: digigeek
What in the world? Firstly, that is an entirely subjective idea on your part. Why do you think that "people" hate Paul the Apostle? To me, that's a much more profound and interesting question. What makes you think this at all??
I honestly think that the replies in this thread answer your question. My obversation comes after much reading on the subject. Like i said in the op perhaps for most it is not hate but disagreement but of coarse the hate is found here too.

In my view i am starting to think it comes down to sex and views of how we should be. Seems that pauls message tries to conform us to the traditional views of love and marriage and doing without if you can. However the message that Jesus brought can be twisted into saying that perhaps him and his followers were going around and having sex with men and even children. Like i say it can be twisted that way and i make no claims yet to the truth because the twisters usually seperate themselves from the church and the bible while trying to cling to the words of christ.

I am reminded of an egyptian message that was written on a cave wall outside of a town that depicts the queen being bent over by someone and at the time sex was strictly forbidden in the land. I bring that up because i also have visions of people around the time of Jesus not being allowed to have much sex to the point of stoning and it leaves me wondering if all this boils down to generational curses being passed down through families and perhaps someone at the time was offering sex and suffering to make it to the kingdom and that leads me to the question of is that satan or jesus. It would seem to me that the curses of unnatural cravings of flesh and need the need to put metal through lips and tatoo oneself is a sign of this in our current day. Would this mean that not accepting the cross and not having demons cast out will continue the curse or is accepting the cross and finding out how far in spiritual debt you are through baptism the narrow path? Just look around at how many accept jesus but continue to suffer. look at how many immoral acts go on in the world. Are we in hell already and the way out is not a moral one?



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 07:07 PM
link   
originally posted by: deadeyedick
originally posted by: digigeek

[I]deadeyedick[/I]I am reminded of an egyptian message that was written on a cave wall outside of a town that depicts the queen being bent over by someone and at the time sex was strictly forbidden in the land. I bring that up because i also have visions of people around the time of Jesus not being allowed to have much sex to the point of stoning and it leaves me wondering if all this boils down to generational curses being passed down through families and perhaps someone at the time was offering sex and suffering to make it to the kingdom and that leads me to the question of is that satan or jesus. It would seem to me that the curses of unnatural cravings of flesh and need the need to put metal through lips and tatoo oneself is a sign of this in our current day. Would this mean that not accepting the cross and not having demons cast out will continue the curse or is accepting the cross and finding out how far in spiritual debt you are through baptism the narrow path? Just look around at how many accept jesus but continue to suffer. look at how many immoral acts go on in the world. Are we in hell already and the way out is not a moral one?

Jesus was an anomaly; he was an Essene rabbi; one that was thought of to be 'annointed' to speak the word of God enough so that he was killed for it; yet he was a 33 unmarried man and had no family. He himself would have been stoned just for being a freak within the Hebrew community. Personally not in the understanding of the current fad of piercing and tattooing the flesh (everyone has turned pagan)? It is unnatural to desicrate the body in this way. I'm not sure those practicing or receiving the images understand where this leads them; forget damnation it shows to me that no one has any respect for the canvas body they live in, or its not enough and they have to decorate it with personal images or wall paper it (as if they alone are not enough living within that beautiful body). Whatever is happening they are only marking themselves or to put it politely creating unwanted attention from negative forces that see this activity as a weakness, therefore make themselves targets of unwanted unanticipated inspection. Its dangerous and they don't understand why (because they have given up a degree of innocence that protected themselves from potential scrutiny by negative forces that feed on this behavior).
edit on 27-5-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 27 2014 @ 09:05 PM
link   
a reply to: vethumanbeing You say they are marked and that is very true. Possible the mark of the beast. I was told that it would be this way. Ponder this for a moment. If someone in modern time came and spoke the message jesus did and performed the miricles that he did then do you think that if he said sex with him would would free your spirit or save your soul how many would bend over so to speak. You can bet that after bringing folks you knew back to life that would be much proof to everything else he said. It would explain why someone at the same time would call him a demon and want him dead. I mean just think of the apostles when he said suffer the little children to come to him. When that was said the child was already there so what part would be the suffering? So could it be that those marked today are meant to suffer in the same manner. Just take a look at our penal system in america it is definitly set up for those curses to be fulfilled and there is no rational explaination for the amounts of people locked up. We see it as illogical but from this perspective it is a blessing in disguise. If any of this is true and we all have a number then at what age would you want this to happen? Look at the sex rate amoung the elderly now it's up. This precession of evil always happens before a mass killing such as sodom and gomorrah. It fits right in with the views of the end coming now.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
In this thread i shared a very real vision of paul forcing a child to write one of the books of the bible. Actually it seemed as if there were two pauls one good and one bad. I do wonder if one was apollo. Anyhow the boy felt that the message he was forced to write would doom his creations and the more i think about it i believe that the message was one that excluded the vast majority from having sex. i even get visions of that same boy making decisions on our creation and it seems that it falls in line with love being sex so much to the point that we were almost made without teeth.

This paints a very grim picture of our existance but just look at the shape of the world in general it is grim. However this could be only half the story because i have also found that our existance is made up of two sides just like our brain. So the story i'm telling could very well be from the bad side. It is starting to come together for me and bible study can prove my views on two sides coming together as one i just don't think many people have pondered that it could be two worlds coming together along with our own selves. This may sound bad but at the end of the day if one believes in the word then it would be wise to take the safe road and get over with whatever your spirit is nudging you to do givin that it does not break current laws. Afterall surely the Perfect Jesus might forgive us for something like sex. Better to be safe rather than sorry.

As for the paul that seems to rail against sin and fornication i have always felt a much closer bond to the traditional ways and much desire in my heart of a world where children are raised by their mom and dad and ned not to worry with the negative side of life such as addiction theft and death and his teachings outline good ways that a society might be to achieve that. That doesn't mean that i do not see what this divide has done to all of us and to some fellow posters more than others. We are all human at the end of the day.



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 12:52 AM
link   
Paul is not Jesus. He is a man, but he had some good ideas.


1 Corinthians 13:4-8
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.


But this is what Jesus Christ said about acting like a Child of God (and going to Heaven):


Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 01:10 AM
link   
I would like to meet Paul one day if I make it to Heaven. I was looking for one verse but couldn't find it.
Here are two other Gospel verses which show Paul had the gift of healing.


Acts Of Apostles 14:8
This same heard Paul speaking. Who looking upon him, and seeing that he had faith to be healed,

Acts Of Apostles 28:8
And it happened that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever, and of a bloody flux. To whom Paul entered in; and when he had prayed, and laid his hands on him, he healed him.



www.drbo.org...



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 06:56 AM
link   

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Sremmos80 well many do not adhere to either but still find cause to disagree with the teachings of paul. So yes i meant christians but it seems that many have knowledge of the subject so i'm just trying to get all the angles.



Has anyone ever thought how Saul the Pharisee, persecutor of the christian faith all of a sudden becomes "Apostle Paul" follower of the christian faith?
No one ever called Paul an apostle. Paul himself calls himself an apostle! Its in the bible.

Paul never met Jesus (his story concerning his travel to Damascus is all we have concerning Saul's conversion to Christianity)
The other were hand picked and none of them were openly against Christ or his teachings like Paul was.

Paul was his own handpicked maiden. Its crazy that people think he was an apostle or that HIS invented church had anything to do with Jesus other than a "get out of jail free monopoly card" in the Roman Empire that was changing; do to Constantine and his foresight of what was coming. This being the transition from paganism to monotheism (ex pharisee ceasing the political moment to save his skin or make a buck). Paul positioned himself nicely.


Paul was the enemy Even Peter shows that, but like with Judas, he became a necessary evil, for as there is light in the dark so there is dark in the light. Ying Yang kinda thing. Paul, with his freemanship opened up the venues for Peter and the others. As long as Peter was along, they could deliver speeches at the forums and like you say, slip out of jail and other things, like always get a lift when needed and so on. It was this that beguiled and seduced Peter et to believing that the kingdom of Heaven was infact being a roman citizen or official. They could do and demand the white out of the eye of any peasant or commoner and get away with it. It was fun like it used to be with the Jesua guy. With Paul they experienced the same freedom as with Jesus, and now it was even legal! As long as Paul carried along. Oh, he had all their bollocks in his firm grip, with nails like claws. The least in heaven, for we had to bring him, we simply wouldn't have come in ourselves had we not forgiven his treason. You'll have to wade in Hell to reel him in when SHTF. And I'll hit it!



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 07:04 AM
link   

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: UnBreakable

He was the walrus.




We have this thing about not dropping pithy one-liners on the forums. Maybe you can deign to expend a little more energy in this conversation. Or next time, not say anything at all.


Wow, you sure outdid my one liner with your profound three liner. Here's my second line.



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 07:07 AM
link   
a reply to: UnBreakable

Dude, you got some....

... in your hair



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 08:34 AM
link   
a reply to: amazing





My theory is Paul faked his conversion and blindness for his own gain...for power. Christianity then became his cult in the manner that Koresh with the branch davidians.

You are indeed quite amazing.
If that is what you want to believe then no revelation in this world could change your mind. You are the one who must live with your own ignorance. All of the thousands of manuscripts and brilliant minds are erased from your knowledge.


Text That IS the way Jesus would have wanted it.

Yes, you are indeed quite amazing.



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 08:42 AM
link   
a reply to: Seede

Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?


edit on 28-5-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: ...



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 11:23 AM
link   

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: amazing





My theory is Paul faked his conversion and blindness for his own gain...for power. Christianity then became his cult in the manner that Koresh with the branch davidians.

You are indeed quite amazing.
If that is what you want to believe then no revelation in this world could change your mind. You are the one who must live with your own ignorance. All of the thousands of manuscripts and brilliant minds are erased from your knowledge.


Text That IS the way Jesus would have wanted it.

Yes, you are indeed quite amazing.


Um, okay...so much for a logical conversation? I'm bringing up some good points. Points that I think are true. In an argument or thread such as this, a good reply would be to tell me why I'm wrong not mock me. LOL



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 11:26 AM
link   

originally posted by: deadeyedick
Would you like to name me some other pauls that are found in religion and well hated by many today.


I presented the example of how this thread could refer to Ron Paul. Your opening post was not clear enough to formally rule out Ron Paul. You did not make it clear that you were specifically talking about "Paul" who is found in the religion.



My op required critical thinking skills...


Your opening post was highly ambiguous.



The majority of my post are made in a manner that requires thought and discernment


Perhaps, you should have added "Choose the best Paul for this thread." You know, how on exams, multiple answers could be correct, but you are to choose the "best answer." Ron Paul, if one additional assumption is made (ie, there was something in the news that a reader did not come across) was not ruled out from your opening post.



unlike most that give much effort into steering one into thinking like them i would rather be dismissed than understood by those that judge too quickly. Tis a very narrow path.


I do appreciate what you are trying to do, but the execution was poorly carried out in this thread.

But my apologies though. On the internet, as you should be aware, you cannot hear tone of voice. I read your reply, " How many paul"s are well hated in religion and are in the story?" as being very condescending. Now, when I go back to read it, I do not see it as condescending.

The only reason I commented to you was because I thought you were being condescending and haughty, which, if you were, would definitely be unwarranted.

Well, cool thread though. I never realized that there was some disdain for Paul the Apostle.



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 11:45 AM
link   
As I think that the OP is now referring to Saul of Tarsus, there's a simple answer - we don't know which way Christianity would have gone after Jerusalem was destroyed by the army of Titus, during which event the early church's leadership (James etc) were killed. Paul stepped into a vacuum.



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 06:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

No, no. Don't bid him rot in hell. That's where I'm going, and I've no interest in meeting the guy.

ETA: I have this thing where if my parents are going to hell for being gay, I'm going to hell for supporting them. If hell exists, it's already got a torture rack with my name plastered all over it.


Don't worry, noone's going to hell for such with a faith like yours. Leviticus is the part of Moses' Law which only affects the priests among the Levites. Paul doesn't either speak of being gay or homosexuality, he attacks what he sees as adultary, married men who followed local custom to have male lovers beside their wives. Infact, homosexuality isn't mentioned in the Bible, only religious ritual sex on altars with spectators even involving eh, manlove, like they did in certain areas in the ME back when Moses was around. And as for Paul, like I said, not homosexuality, but what he saw as extra-marital adultary. Stick that one up their faces next time, it might not work that well, but atleast it's the TRUTH.

Are you including the Greeks in this statement; after all Paul's Church started there as its Orthodoxy. Perhaps he was more concerned with their proclivities (man on man tendencies), saw this as prime ground for conversion/safer than the Pagan Roman conversions (let Constantine take care of that mess in Turkey). BTW there is no such thing as hell unless you imagine it for yourself as a place of ultimate destination, even to fear it creates it just for you personalized (OH THE POWER of the IMAGINATION) you have no idea. Prometheus with his attentive eagle caretakers, a rock bed and continuous fresh liver as food. All of you what is your final destination? Sugar Racer in a video game?



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 06:59 PM
link   
a reply to: vethumanbeing

"Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
But when the Jews of Thessalonica
had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea,
they came thither also, and stirred up the people."

And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul
to go as it were to the sea:
but Silas and Timotheus abode there still."

At least get the story straight,,"and stirred up the people" guess the people were more weak minded in those days,, easier too stir.



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 07:00 PM
link   
"Perhaps he was more concerned with their proclivities "

So now your insulting Greek Culture? or just the Race?
another Racist, i see.

a reply to: vethumanbeing



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 07:22 PM
link   
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing

[I]Utnapisjtim[/I]Paul was the enemy Even Peter shows that, but like with Judas, he became a necessary evil, for as there is light in the dark so there is dark in the light. Ying Yang kinda thing. Paul, with his freemanship opened up the venues for Peter and the others. As long as Peter was along, they could deliver speeches at the forums and like you say, slip out of jail and other things, like always get a lift when needed and so on. It was this that beguiled and seduced Peter et to believing that the kingdom of Heaven was infact being a roman citizen or official. They could do and demand the white out of the eye of any peasant or commoner and get away with it. It was fun like it used to be with the Jesua guy. With Paul they experienced the same freedom as with Jesus, and now it was even legal! As long as Paul carried along. Oh, he had all their bollocks in his firm grip, with nails like claws. The least in heaven, for we had to bring him, we simply wouldn't have come in ourselves had we not forgiven his treason. You'll have to wade in Hell to reel him in when SHTF. And I'll hit it!

Right, necessary evil I understand here is my problem Judas didn't realize this (no one told him he was to betray his best friend for a reason or was he told in EXACT). Either way he hung himself; I see this as unfair usership by others (JESUS HIMSELF?). Here is one way to think this Judas thing through. Jesus knew all along the steps, prophecy to attain Golgotha/Calgary and sacrificed his own disciples by abandoning them to accomplish a NOW (as in happen in the NOW; NOW) to push forth the new paradigm of "Christ Consciousness"; God as a man living on earth (we all are of this concept; this was an elementary school Poster Boy Example set before us). Jesus actually betrayed Judas as the sacrificial lamb (he was long gone before his own crucifixion occurred). It was a set up meant to cause paradigm change and well worth it; Paul on the otherhand was the unconsidered potential aftermath of such a bold move. Hey, we brought Christ Consciousness to the world but spawned as the equivalent negative: a full blown Religion subject to corruption (Christianity) even Jesus would have shaken his head over; my question, was it worth it? NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNSHED in the realm of Karmic reality (the positive and negative must be balanced).
edit on 28-5-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2014 @ 07:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: BobAthome
"Perhaps he was more concerned with their proclivities "

So now your insulting Greek Culture? or just the Race?
another Racist, i see.

a reply to: veteranhumanbeing


As far as YOU are concerned because you will/have infered it anyway; (despite my waving my hands in the air jumping up and down screaming NO!! he just threw down the racist card); I do my best to insult everyone on an equal basis despite race, specie or gender.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 11:02 AM
link   
a reply to: amazing



Text Um, okay...so much for a logical conversation? I'm bringing up some good points. Points that I think are true. In an argument or thread such as this, a good reply would be to tell me why I'm wrong not mock me. LOL

If I left you with the feeling that I mock you then I apologize. That was not my intent. If I appear as a pompous ass then once again I apologize. I am over zealous in my defense of scriptures and perhaps that does not well suit many members of this forum. But I do not apologize for understanding your post in the words that you have written. you wrote what you wrote and I assume that you are what you write. Let me remind you of what you wrote.


Text Why I hate Paul, is that I think he took over Christianity. Not in a good sense. I get the feeling from his letters that he felt as if he was the equal to Jesus. He WAS Christianity. He was the new prophet. I feel like he hijacked Christianity and made it his religion. When you go to church 9 times out of 10 who is quoted. Paul, not Jesus. that's my take on it. Cut out Paul, revelations and the old testament and you've got some much better stuff

When you make a statement that you hate one of Jesus’ Apostles then that in itself makes the conversation senseless as a rational conversation. You had no call to hate. To disagree perhaps but not knowing the man Paul and judging in the manner of which you feel that you are a qualified scholar to judge, well that is simply against all that Jesus ever taught.

You have judged a situation without evidence and condemned Paul by what a preacher of over two thousand years later has decided to preach. Then you prefer that another Apostle John’s work be stricken from the bible along with 39 other prophets, judges and historians be stricken also from the bible. That to me is unwarranted ignorance (not meaning stupid) even for a scholar and linguist. You simply do not understand the connectivity or the spirituality of the bible.

Now with all of what I have said, please show me where I have misunderstood your exact words. All of what you posted was without a shred of actual reasoning in your hate rant. You said that you have this opinion of destroying centuries of scholarly work and with out any credentials of scholarship whatsoever. Your reason was that you hate the Apostle Paul.
I do not hate you nor do I want to denigrate you in any way but when you come to the table you should at least have reason.




top topics



 
10
<< 5  6  7    9  10  11 >>

log in

join