EU to bug every car in UK with tracker chips – and Ministers admit they are powerless to stop the

a reply to: gortex

Same here! I don't have the money or the wish to own a new car anyway.

'First they came for the owners of new cars and I wasn't one so I did nothing etc.'

a reply to: Spiro

I wonder if they will insist on every used car being fitted too? Only time will tell I suppose.

Placed into millions of cars by 'law'...and then promptly removed from millions of cars by direct choice..possibly replaced for the hour or so needed for a yearly MOT test..

Will this be part of the MOT test? if not i can see it generally getting switched off/bypassed by most people all the time as it'll draw power from the cars systems which means the engine will have to do a few extra RPM so using more fuel and at current petrol prices even a thimble full a week soon adds up

a reply to: Spiro

This has been happening since 1994, Ford was the first company to do this. How do I know? I worked at the factory that made the computer resistors. In fact, the first auto plant that put them in cars, was the Janesville, Wisconsin Ford plant.

Do you think your car simply has all those computer parts for the guys at Auto Zone to scan? No, they are tracking you and have been in every car made since 1994. Ford was the first to use it, then they slid it under the radar by calling "The North Star System" and then it became OnStar.

And this is how it was explained to me in 1995 "The computer system onboard downloads to the server and then accessed by the main database". They have the power to stop and start your car, they have the power to track every stop and they listen through the radio. If you think I am kidding, do you think those commercials are just jokes?

The factory I worked at had major government as well as private commercial contracts. We invented the TrakStick for IBM laptops. The factory was CTS, now no longer operational in the area I worked at, but the sister factories at that time were in Scotland and Singapore.

When I first learned of this, I kept telling people to not buy Fords. Nobody listened to me and now people are waking up to this fact. You have had no privacy since 1994.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: Spiro
When I first learned of this, I kept telling people to not buy Fords. Nobody listened to me and now people are waking up to this fact. You have had no privacy since 1994.

Damn, I own a Focus ST and the missus has a Focus estate

I'm with Gortex on this one, back to Motorcycles ha ha ha

a reply to: WarminIndy

I doubt it's only in Fords.

Not that i drive Fords, but if they have been covertly tracking vehicles since at least 94 it just goes to show how deep the rabbit hole must truely go.

Spy tech must be inserted into literally everything by now..TV sets, games consoles (apart from the overt spy tech used now), we know they track mobile phones, computers, kids electronic toys...probably just about everything that has a chip inside.

How does the car chip contact the server though?

Is there basically a mobile phone transceiver built into the car's circuitry, or does it work on short range radio when the car passes near to a base station?

What's the system...does it broadcast everything in a timed or periodic large data dump of say, a week or so's driving - places travelled, speeds reached, average speed, stop off points, duration of stop, route taken, variation of routes and so on, or does it contact in an always on mode and continuously relay real time information?

Anyone know?

How could we check this was actually installed and making contact with a base station...a radio scanner? Or a physical inspection of the vehicle computer?

And how easy would it be to disable it, without disabling the car itself?

It seems that when the UK does something like this, Canada is close to follow, then California and finally all the United States.

I'm thinking that today it's required on new cars manufactured, tomorrow it's motorcycles and scooters, after that is well established, then older used cars and cycles will have to be retrofitted with the black box before they are allowed on the highways. Shortly after that point no vehicle is allowed to travel the roads without the box. Ultimately I expect to see the same laws for boats, bicycles and last but not least for pedestrians.

They're just greasing up that slippery slope for the steep drop off at the end of the ride.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

They're already at it overtly here in the UK.

They are 'offerring' black box data recorders, actually telling the public what they are and what they'll do (monitor your speed, where you go, driving habits etc) and offerring 'cheaper' car insurance if you 'choose' to have one fitted to your car.

Can you believe that?

Let us spy on you and track your every movement and we'll reward you with a few quid off the extortionate cost of your car insurance!

They are mostly targetted at young drivers and the numpties as evidenced by their use of childlike cartoons for their TV adverts, but i still can't believe anyone would willingly choose to be monitored and spied upon to save a few quid.

But it gets the black box spy tech into the bpublic mind, creates a level of acceptance and familiarity and then will be hailed on TV as contributing to road safety and saving lives and how it's all for our own good etc. etc.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: WarminIndy

I doubt it's only in Fords.

Not that i drive Fords, but if they have been covertly tracking vehicles since at least 94 it just goes to show how deep the rabbit hole must truely go.

Spy tech must be inserted into literally everything by now..TV sets, games consoles (apart from the overt spy tech used now), we know they track mobile phones, computers, kids electronic toys...probably just about everything that has a chip inside.

How does the car chip contact the server though?

Is there basically a mobile phone transceiver built into the car's circuitry, or does it work on short range radio when the car passes near to a base station?

What's the system...does it broadcast everything in a timed or periodic large data dump of say, a week or so's driving - places travelled, speeds reached, average speed, stop off points, duration of stop, route taken, variation of routes and so on, or does it contact in an always on mode and continuously relay real time information?

Anyone know?

How could we check this was actually installed and making contact with a base station...a radio scanner? Or a physical inspection of the vehicle computer?

And how easy would it be to disable it, without disabling the car itself?

It was just used in Ford first.

When I learned about this in 1995, I didn't know much about the internet or the lingo about servers and downloading, I think people were just really getting into the internet and home computers at that time. I don't how it was downloaded, only that it was.

Dell was just starting to become big at that time and they made their computer resistors out of plastic, whereas we were making ours out of ceramic. Evan Bayh was governor at the time and he gave our company an award for our technology, this was an Indiana company.

How does the OnStar work? Same principle, same technology.

I suppose it doesn't matter now that CTS is no longer operational here, and I won't be in trouble if I tell how we made our parts. But it's really simple, just ceramic and silver paint, that's all it was. Everyone would see that if they knew the parts to look for. We were told simply to not give away the trade secret of how the parts were made, but China was reverse engineering American computers, buying the parts and then selling them on the market. That's why we were told not to say what they are made from.

They didn't tell us that we couldn't say what the applications were for.

a reply to: MysterX

It's a sim-card device that sits in the dash and is triggered by a passenger or the air-bags being deployed. When it's used, it sends a message to emergency services AND a base station for the proprietors of the system.

If it's SIM card based and you 'crash' in a remote place with poor or limited Network coverage THEN whats the point…?

It is a way of introducing ''control'' and monitoring of car usage further down the road…….pardon the pun

It should be introduced as a voluntary 'optional extra' on both old and new cars……..

Funny..they want to track every car yet we still can't find any evidence or wreckage of MH 370…?

Regards
PDUK

The ministers are powerless because they want to be powerless and we will soon be buying anti-spyware/hacking ware just to drive our cars.

Lets see the bank details of all these ministers and politicains because if they have nothing to hide then what have they got to fear.

Telematics - wiki

*=my edit


Research and Markets: Global Connected Vehicles Market and Forecast Report 2014-2019: LTE and Telematics Analysis

In the US, leading automobile manufacturers have committed to embedding cars with LTE (*Long Term Evolution) in their product lines. For example, BMW makes an LTE/Wi-Fi adapter for their cars. Alcatel-Lucent, Verizon, and AT&T are proponents of the LTE-connected car. However, many new cars have embedded Wi-Fi, use GPS tracking, and have other forms of telematics. The full case for LTE is not yet realized.

I watched a program only yesterday where the LE were able to use this technology to track a murderer in the car he had stolen - the re-enactment was from 2004.

Under the banner of safety, Governments will allow manufacturers to develop tracking and surveillance technologies and apply them to the public's commercial needs, whilst the Governments throw their hands in the air saying they can do nothing to stop it. Yet behind the backs of the unsuspecting consumer they already are planning ways to manipulate it, and abuse it for their own gain and influence.
As long as manufacturers keep throwing up the statistics for the original implementation - 'Saftey' - and keep supplying data to the public which reflects some sort of 'positive' outcome - and sales keep generating and funding further surveillance technology - it will just keep growing until finally they feel as if they not only know you and your level of assumed safety - but they know you better than yourself, and will charge you accordingly to their data.

.

a reply to: boymonkey74

I agree that the idea that Britain would loose out to business in Europe is purely a myth. This is still a wealthy country and it has an extremely good road, rail and airport network to reach millions - so whats not to like when wanting to sell goods to the UK and get them quickly from the UK.

We already have a currency difference as we don't have the Euro but we are very efficient in paper work so I really don't see that our goods, which are some of the best in the world will suffer in any way.

This would really be helpful in areas where you don't get cell phone reception , where it would be needed the most. ( oh ya ) . At some point it will be hooked up to the ignition then to your wallet/purse so you can pay toll road fees. Go ahead and slide your card NOW.

Social engineering takes decades to come to fruition....the plan is to drastically reduce the amount of people driving cars.....the first stage is to gather data via these devices....the methods for weening people off cars will be subtle and varied...price of fuel, insurance, and so forth.....furture society will consist only of rich people being able to own an auto privately....
Meanwhile your every driving offence and destination will be recorded as well as the stops you make, conversations you engage in etc.....

Why would the car manufacturers be spearheading this spy tech in their cars?

I doubt they have done this out of choice, more like they are being told to do it by the governments who claim there's nothing they can do about it.

It's getting (gotten) out of hand, in a big way. CCTV capturing each of us at least a dozen times a day, chips embedded into rubbish bins, into clothing, GPS tracking of mobile comms, tracking of cars, kids computers watching and listening to them in their bedrooms, their games consoles watching and listening to them in their living rooms, agencies recording everything we say on the phone and everything we type online...where the hell is this going to go?

Isn't it about time we had a citizens monitoring network of our own, at least to tilt the field a few degrees back towards our favour?

Slap minute micro tracking devices onto politicians, suspect corporate board members and other agency people, secrete them and monitor their bloody movements and conversations and see how much safer it makes THEM feel.

If it's good for the goose, it's certainly good for the gander.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: boymonkey74

I agree that the idea that Britain would loose out to business in Europe is purely a myth. This is still a wealthy country and it has an extremely good road, rail and airport network to reach millions - so whats not to like when wanting to sell goods to the UK and get them quickly from the UK.

We already have a currency difference as we don't have the Euro but we are very efficient in paper work so I really don't see that our goods, which are some of the best in the world will suffer in any way.

The CBI disagrees with you, particularly as the British manufacturing and industrial sector was killed off sometime in the 1980s. If UKIP increase significantly increase their share of the vote this month, the stock markets will also say what they think.

The problem with the Daily Fail and UKIP's rhetoric about the EU is it's mendacity. Member states have a lot of flexibility when implementing EU regs, which is why different countries have different rules about recycling electrical components, air traveller's rights etc. Something like this, like straight cucumbers, is industry-led. Leaving Europe won't make a difference. You won't get a say in the way business and government work together in or out of the EU.

Leaving the EU serves UKIPs right wing nationalist agenda because it is a right wing nationalist party, not because it's good or bad for Britain. They, like the Daily Mail, simplify things beyond all recognition to get a gut reaction and a free pass.

I was going to reply to WarminIndy because I was shocked that Ford would have been doing anything like that in their cars back in 1995. Then I remembered, in 1994 I bought a pretty nice car that was worth quite a bit of money to me so I bought a LoJack system. That's a tracking system to be used (supposedly) only if you reported your vehicle stolen/missing. I still have that car. I wonder if it's still transmitting

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Might be worth taking an ordinary battery radio, detuned so it plays static and wave it around your car to find the spot that causes the most change in radio static...then have a look in that spot and see what's there?