Family, Friends Of Dead Home Invaders Say “They Didn’t Deserve To Get Killed.”

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
You're a gun happy nation that only cares about no.1 and their family & screw everyone else.

Damn straight I'll care about my family before caring about a POS intruder that is robbing me and set on harming my family. It would be INSANITY to care more about not hurting the intruder than to protect my family. Get real. Someday you'll earn the Darwin Award with your attitude.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: macman

No I bemoan American violence and am angry at America because of that very reason. America was the land of the free, the great and the good but you have lost your way in the last 20 years and I'm sorry but I've had enough of it. You're a gun happy nation that only cares about no.1 and their family & screw everyone else.

That's confusing, back when America (as you put it) the land of the free, there was even fewer gun control laws. Back when (as you put it) we were the land of the free, you could buy a rifle through the mail. Thus, by your reasoning, you are actually mad at us for having more gun control, not less.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Yup it basically has. There was a stint a decade or so back with tougher prosecution and some anal interpretation of "reasonable force" but then the labor government was awful like that. Current government has returned to a more common sense approach of reasonable is whatever you deem reasonable.

You get arrested while a investigation is carried out to make sure what happened but only for a day or two and then your normally released without charge.

originally posted by: TDawgRex


Another thing that you also seem to fail to comprehend is that every time a criminal is shot while unlawfully in a house, the shooter is always arrested and weapon confiscated while a investigation takes place. Sometimes this takes hours, sometimes it takes days, weeks or months.

Well, the shooter isn't always arrested. They are questioned at the scene, and if the detectives or investigating officer determines it was a self defense situation, charges will not be filed.
Some times the firearm is taken and held as evidence, sometimes it isn't. Depends on the situation and the LE agency.

a reply to: TDawgRex

No I was right with murder actually & I quote "the crime of murder is committed where a person of sound mind and discretion, unlawfully - kills - a reasonable creature - in being - under the Queens peace - with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. " Notice the unlawfully & with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm. The person I was speaking to said he would kill someone who entered his premises without a second thought. So say that scenario actually played out and he killed the intruder it would be classed as murder as he said on a forum that he would kill 1st and ask questions later, hence MURDER.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: crazyewok

No you are actually simplifying a very detailed and complex law, perhaps reading up on it a bit further might help.
And no it's not what you deem reasonable but what the courts decides what was reasonable for the circumstances.

BSDGB

I think your the one missreading it.

it clearly states:

The concept of the defence exists both at common law and by statute. At common law the defence has existed for centuries and permits a person to use reasonable force to: defend himself from attack prevent an attack on another person defend his property

It also goes on to state that the only people that have been convicted have been the ones who either injure or kill those running away or chase them out the property and continue to inflict injury.

a reply to: mclarenmp4

Last I checked, Sacramento, California does not fall under the "Queens Peace" or any other Nations laws. This also happened in California, which has some of the toughest anti-gun laws in the US.

I'm of the opinion that this was justifiable. The teens prints were connected to other break ins at that same residence.

The elderly are being preyed upon in cities a lot more these days by younger people. A equalizer can save a life, their own.

They killed two oxygen thieves, they did not murder them.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Where in any of my posts did I advocate gun control? I didn't, my problem is more of the mentality of people who own said guns. My views of America from 20 years may be misplaced and the real reality of America has always been like this.
But I remember when an American icon who used to fight for truth, justice and the American way, now only stands for truth & Justice. the American way is something no longer desirable in this new world.

Having saw this when it was first brought up, and what I stated is coming true. The 2 boys who were shot, their families and friends are claiming that they were good boys and should not been shot.

The reality is, what should the woman had done? She is not a young woman, but a widow, and elderly person. Chances are her brother, is not so young himself, and what would you expect 2 people who are past the prime of their life to do, to protect themselves and the property?

The problem is not that these 2 children got shot, nor is it the homeowner and her family, but rather that there are other causes in society that are there, that is permitting this to happen. And it raises a lot of questions, as to why was the one child, who had a family, out committing crimes in the middle of the night? Why did his parents not stop him, or even put or give him guidelines on his behavior? These 2 boys, were no strangers to breaking the law, according to the article, one of them did it before.

A house is not an invitation to go and steal from it, and as sad as it is, perhaps the laws need to be adjusted to where the punishments for breaking the laws, when one is young should be a lot harder and the penalties have a bite to them.

People are tired, they work hard to achieve and make ends meet, they want nice things, they do not make money to give it to some stranger, and in this case, a lot of the items in that house, well they are priceless in the homeowners eyes. How do you put a price on a memory? Could you be satisfied if you gave something in love to your significant other, and someone just take it? Could you rest easy if some of the items that were stolen from you, having real significant meaning, were just taken all cause a person wanted to work, and decided to break the law by stealing such?

I do not buy the fact that this was cause one of the 2 were hungry, after all if he was so hungry, why break into a home? Why not go to say a grocery store and steal from them?

No the facts are, 2 young persons broke into a home, and died due to their actions. They violated the safety of an elderly person and paid the price for their actions. When the police and law enforcement are failing in their duties, then it lies within the public to sometimes to have to take matters into their own hands. And if a criminal gets shot in the process, then we should not cry or morn for them, as they were doing what is wrong. We should cry and morn for the mess that is left behind, as 2 families now how to clean it up and move on. I feel for the mother, as no parent should have to bury their child and I also feel for the person who pulled the trigger that ended 2 lives. But I also believe that had this not happened, then these 2 boys would continue to break the law and get more and more emboldened and one day been the ones with a weapon that ended someone’s life.

a reply to: macman

Actually he is using the bad guy that tried to kill the American superhero (that was played by a Brit) hahaha so convoluted

ON TOPIC - the %^$& that broke into the house DID NOT deserve to die I will agree with the parents on that. What they did deserve was better parenting. Had the parents taken the time to raise their children with any kind of moral value this entire scenario would have been avoided. However, once again, we will see the sorry excuse for parents ignore their failings and blame some senior citizens who were protecting their home. I am sure now we will see the "parents" looking to sue someone and try to profit off of the dead kids they didn't care about last week.

"A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet".
-anon

a reply to: crazyewok

And this is why I love our country. It's like we have gentlmans rules about home defence and the Yanks are all Cowboys, shooting from the hip at the smallest threat! lol

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not making fun of the Yanks in this thread or saying that "we're the best" or some such nonsense. I guess what I'm trying to do is lighten a thread that has turned in to a snipe-fest between a few members who seem intent on being nastier and nastier toward each other.

Regardless of how we all feel about this issue or the comments being made in this thread, we should take a moment to remember that we're all adults here and as such, we should behave accordingly...

I predict some flames in my future! :LOL:

Rev

a reply to: mclarenmp4

Protecting your home and your family has always been the American way.

Seems your memory isn't reliable anymore.

Or where you watching "Saved by the Bell" and "Beverly Hills 90210" and thinking this is America?

Well they didnt deserve the death penalty but when you live in a country were gun ownership is part of life your kind of taking your chances doing home invasions arent you?..it too bad these kids made ultimetly the wrong choice.
Life is about choices.

a reply to: TDawgRex

Last time i checked I was debating with a fellow UK poster so the context of my post that you were commenting on was based on UK law.

a reply to: macman

This is why America is a failing society, when the people only care about what is good for their own and screw the rest of the you, it the same with your healthcare. i see it all the time on here "why should i pay for someone else going through hard times" etc.. because that's what happens in civilised society we look after one another not just our immediate family but my neighbours families and my communities families etc... maybe we just have a different outlook on the world here in Scotland but we look after everyone, i'm starting to think we are a dying breed & only the selfish will be left to rule.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4

This is why America is a failing society, when the people only care about what is good for their own and screw the rest of the you, it the same with your healthcare.

So, taxation equals caring.
Looks like your Society isn't doing too hot either. You may want to clean up your own backyard, before you go across town to criticize someone else.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
i see it all the time on here "why should i pay for someone else going through hard times" etc.. because that's what happens in civilised society we look after one another not just our immediate family but my neighbours families and my communities families etc... maybe we just have a different outlook on the world here in Scotland but we look after everyone, i'm starting to think we are a dying breed & only the selfish will be left to rule.

Nooooo, Govt taking and giving does equate to caring.

People giving equates caring.

But, I don't expect you to know or understand that.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: NavyDoc

Where in any of my posts did I advocate gun control? I didn't, my problem is more of the mentality of people who own said guns. My views of America from 20 years may be misplaced and the real reality of America has always been like this.
But I remember when an American icon who used to fight for truth, justice and the American way, now only stands for truth & Justice. the American way is something no longer desirable in this new world.

No, you specifically went on about gun happy Americans. As for the rest, I'd imagine it has to do more with a perception coming from film and television rather than knowing the people who live here and what actually happens in these circumstances.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: DeepImpactX

Soooo, we must now sneak up on the person that broke into our house, and hit them with the baseball bat?

I can't just expect people not to break in and face death....I must be sneaky in my own house.

If someone breaks into my house and I know where they are, this is what will happen. The bat is in the hand and the gun is in the waist band. Trust me, they will not see me coming. The bat smashes the head from behind and....plop. Down they go. This is when, if they have a gun and they;re still conscious, you will see it. At this point they're dazed and confused for the blunt force trauma. Still though, they have a gun in their hand and turning towards me. This is when it is self defense and this is when they die. If you want to call that sneaking around, go ahead. I call that being smart and getting out of the situation alive and unharmed. If you want to go all balls out and make your presence known to a burglar when you don't know whether they have a gun or not, you deserve to get shot.

Remember, it's your house. You have the advantage of being able to get around in the dark and not get lost. You live there, you know how to get around. The burglar doesn't. People are so paranoid that a burglar is going to shoot them dead on sight that they forget they have a leg up on everything and don't use it to their advantage.

Burglars are there to rob you, not kill you. If there is someone in your house that is intent on killing you, chances are very good that you know them. Man up and see this for what it is.

a reply to: Kryties

...yes let's mourn the loss of life.

But they made the choice to break into that home. The owner isn't at fault here, and no amount of rhetoric will make it so.

Blood thirsty? Blood thirsty to have to make such a horrible choice in a matter of seconds... Do I shoot? Do I scare them away? Are they hopped up on something that'll make them stupidly aggressive towards me and mine?

All those choices run through your head in a matter of seconds... You make the choice and then you live with it.

That's not blood thirsty, that's making tough choices.

No one can say what choice they'd make, until such time, god forbid, they're put into that situation. Not even you...

You won't kill an intruder? Even if that intruder is going to kill you? Or you perhaps think that he might? Or a family member?

Kill over a TV? No. Over family? That's another thing entirely, isn't it?