The Only Way God is Real.

a reply to: SuperFrog

The bible states that Earth formed all life. Even Man.

The Bible dosent directly state that life on Earth was preplaned. But according to the Bible, life on Earth is preplaned. Because the End is already written.


If life is formed perfectly or not is a mute question. Because we dont know what is Perfect or not. We cant even create life from finite matter and particles. We can only form life from existing life forms. Do you really have a argument?

a reply to: ArtemisE

I honestly don't know if anyone has brought this up or not, but based on some of the things I have heard what you're talking about (Matrix) is in fact a theory already.

Macrocosm & Microcosm.

There is a limit to how small things go, to where it eventually loses locality. Same thing with reverse.

There is also a limit to time; plank time 10^-47 I believe.

in short a digital simulation.

Just wanted to share in case it hadn't been mentioned yet, apologies if it has.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: SuperFrog

The bible states that Earth formed all life. Even Man.

The Bible dosent directly state that life on Earth was preplaned. But according to the Bible, life on Earth is preplaned. Because the End is already written.


If life is formed perfectly or not is a mute question. Because we dont know what is Perfect or not. We cant even create life from finite matter and particles. We can only form life from existing life forms. Do you really have a argument?

Let me bite - where does Bible said that Earth created life?

1-24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.

1-25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

1-26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Someone was created in someone's image... yet we have all different looking people... Who is original? How long ago?

And we know that life started in ocean, that moved to land later. Did you by any chance watch last episode of Cosmos?

Let me see if I get this right.

You people see reason to explain god or reason to explain science and that reasons will have reached a limit where it explains absolutely everything except your reasons for being adamant that your reasoning is sound.

You don't essentially have a reason to explain where reason comes from - neither party has a monopoly on this it would seem.

Religion: I'm personally a Catholic, and happen to believe in the bible - but I cannot describe the God, creator of the universe because I have no such reach... just that the assumption exists that reason in and of itself cannot explain it's origins.

On the other hand, I look around me and I see a planet teeming with life, and I see yings and yangs all over the place (a double edged sword, if you will). I'm not held back from examining reasons and using this "limited" understanding of how my senses work from interacting in the environment I have been given, though I may attribute my reasons for being able to reason so absolutely when I take part in an activity to be beyond my ability to explain.

On the other hand, the bible is coming literally true, where we have found technologies that assist us in creating lies that are indistinguishable from the reality we examine with our eyes, ears, noses, and mouths and so we are given to the power of this sufficiently complex technology to believe in illusions that set human against human and deprive so many of the authenticity they are due, if they are to live freely as productively functioning human beings.

We are even doing this to the point of fatally believing in this experiment. Throwing our existing babies out with the bathwater - and throwing everything in to an experiment with the level of illusions we can mesmerize our selves with - and here we are throwing human dignity to the dogs.

I personally believe that human life came to this planet much like the other life forms we see on it - I can't absolutely prove this though.

I believe that humans, through whatever process were given a burden of survival and self-correction so that we could withstand the vagaries of the environment we live in and still come out successful as in: continuing our existence on this planet as a species.

I don't believe that a billion or even a trillion people believing in illusions should be a good enough excuse for us to throw away the human ability to recognize situations and that all of these people are useless given science's inability to prove anything in absolution, to provide a reasonable survival.

There may be 7 billion or more problems created by 7 Billion people, but there are also 7 Billion people to help 7 Billion people's problems to get resolved. Albeit, we may have to think about the limits of the ways in which we should behave if we expect to continue living with a certain quality of life, the entire planet over, accompanied by unreasonable increases in our expectations of having more people to add to the mess ad-infinitum.

The downside of not considering what I suggested, is accepting your inferiority by way of legally protection for historically aquired assets ad-infinitum..... ie. if you're not born rich, you weren't meant to survive.

The upside is that desperacy is the mother of invention... If anyone is to really survive the mess we are in - they better pray really hard that they can make it past the illusions to work with their fellow human beings who have really good observational abilities and wisdom to accompany that... just more of what the bible states, if I should continue....

a reply to: SuperFrog

Man was created in Gods image. But God does not have a face or a bodyshape. Because if God is infinite God can not have a shape or form, because God take up all Space possible. But there is soemthing else about us humans that are very much alike. And that is our awareness.

How life was first formed on Earth is still a mysteri for science. There are no solid facts. There are theories that most likely will change many times in the future as science learn more.

How to create synchronicity to a productive end for humans that we can live with is another way to simplify what I was saying.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: SuperFrog

Man was created in Gods image. But God does not have a face or a bodyshape. Because if God is infinite God can not have a shape or form, because God take up all Space possible. But there is soemthing else about us humans that are very much alike. And that is our awareness.

How life was first formed on Earth is still a mysteri for science. There are no solid facts. There are theories that most likely will change many times in the future as science learn more.

So we are created in image of something that does not have shape... interesting concept, don't you think? This really does not make sense...

Now, not sure if you aware, but some animals show signs of awareness as well emotions. Not sure if you have ever heard about gorilla called Koko. Not only it has emotions, but it is able to communicate with sign language as well. It is one of rare non-humans that has pets as well, and it showed emotions for her kitten that was killed by car. If you like to read more about Koko - use wiki as start page - en.wikipedia.org...

There is no mystery about how earth was formed, nor what followed. Do you know scientific meaning of word 'theory'?

reply to: ArtemisE
I tend to disagree with the program theory only because reality is so messed up with things like cancer, obesity, some depraved human minds. Would take a real sicko intelligence or god to create some of this stuff on purpose while giving us self awareness. Nothing that loves us, god or not would create so much human pain on purpose if that creator could help it.

a reply to: kruphix

If you happen to be a microwave technician, then pick any other topic that you don't have 100% firsthand knowledge about...like it or not, you are taking a lot of "facts" purely on faith.

"Science is the art of assuming the experts are wrong." Of course, assuming the experts are wrong is only as productive as the efforts you make to correct them.

a reply to: Xeven

Hmmmm,

I understand your disagreement with God's "will" for us...

But is it possible that God just allowed us to be gods of our own destiny, and we only have to get past the lies WE create?

I reason that God is a "being", if you will (though not material like us) that allows us to experience reality.... yet offers us the tempting premise that by working together, we can actually do more things than one human being could have achieved on his/her own - we just have to find the reasons for working together and why that should benefit those who do in some fashion we call "equality".

a reply to: spy66

Because we dont know what is Perfect or not.

You wouldn't know perfect if you saw it, and yet you know undeniably that not only is there a god, but that this god gives a flying rat's furry hindquarters what you want from him or why.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

On the other hand I disagree....

I believe that the continuing presence of that God is a necessary reason for our continued existence/survival, both at an individual level and at a group level.... since reason hasn't ended since the beginning of the universe.

Whether it super-miraculously intervenes - ie offers us a reality outside of the reality we live in - is another question entirely - and that would render our quest to live unhindered - useless. Yet, we can see things for which the faith of those who put their efforts in to their acquired understanding as miraculous... It just depends whose perspective you choose to take - modern mankind's or the caveman's.

Amazing how people in the atheist world refuse to say the word faith.God is either real or He is not real.No explnantion that can be understood.

a reply to: Jobeycool

I would simply add: And neither can science be 100% accurate if it is incomplete - so one must live on faith all over again.

The two descriptions aren't as far from each other as we wish to believe.

a reply to: sensibleSenseless

False dichotomy. You don't need a complete understanding of nature for the bits we do understand to be accurate. I know this is a difficult concept for some people to wrap their heads around but science doesn't require faith. It doesn't require your belief. Satellites will still orbit, planes will still fly, all of the technology you use on a daily basis that makes up our modern society (all direct spin offs of science) will still continue to function whether you "believe" the underpinning principles or not.

Thank God he made it that way!

Now, if we add the rest of the bible in: That will only last as long as human beings try to live on a planet that works together as opposed to destroying everything that we have as reasons to work with each other.

Easy enough to answer on both sides:

By requesting 'proof' of God, you are changing the definition of who/what God is. God is not provable. So asking for proof is nothing more than trying to redefine the very nature of God to fit your particular view of what you think God should be. And it is a question you know the answer to before you even ask. So by asking for 'proof' in God, you ask asking an invalid question to begin with.

Denial of science. Well either God created this Universe or he didn't. If there was a God who created all that is us and around us, He did so with strict order and rules. We can see these rules in what we call science. Science explains the fundamentals of our Universe and how it all works together. So either God created the Universe using what we call science, or He was surprised at how it all works in the first place. So either all science was created by God or God did not have that much control over His creation.

originally posted by: Xeven
reply to: ArtemisE
I tend to disagree with the program theory only because reality is so messed up with things like cancer, obesity, some depraved human minds. Would take a real sicko intelligence or god to create some of this stuff on purpose while giving us self awareness. Nothing that loves us, god or not would create so much human pain on purpose if that creator could help it.

Yeah, like what about real reality, this ain't no computer program, hence no backdoor 'sciencey' 2 point O version of god who sits behind a computer. (nice try)
This is it, this is real. It operates on it's own.
Gives the Occam's razor people nightmares and crazy atomic facepalms.

I thought 'The Matrix' movie sucked, it bored me and was way too far fetched. Yeah like machine gun toting leather henchcoats and suits wearing men control the Universe. (there, I finally said it)

originally posted by: Jobeycool
Amazing how people in the atheist world refuse to say the word faith.God is either real or He is not real.No explnantion that can be understood.

HuH.... Whazzaat?!?!
Faith tells you it's real? Is that wut you mean?

Tell me, what is Faith. The word itself casts doubt.
You know nothing, yet believe?