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originally posted by: WarminIndy
If it is normal, why did you feel weird?
And no, I don't know what that is like, however, if it was normal, why did you feel weird? Were you basing normalcy on what you perceived as normal? So to you, normalcy was being straight, but instead you felt weird. Do you now have the feeling it is normal to be gay and are you basing that on what others have told you, or that you have discovered on your own?
But we all know that sexual attraction is based on other things, such as eye color, hair color, symmetry and angular features. Just listen to how straight men talk about women, generally it is a superficial, but subconscious attraction, they are animals and as animals will seek those who are capable of reproducing.
But if it were simply about same sex, then why are so many gays attracted to those who look like the opposite sex? Butch and Lipstick lesbians...Twinks and Bears. People are not attracted solely because of male or female, but those features that are attractive to them.
Why are there so many Transexuals who look like women, that men do have sex with? Why does a man have to look like a woman to attract a man? That means the man they want to have sex with is attracted to feminine features. So there is still a compatibility of feminine vs. masculine.
But then there are those who are attracted to same features as them, but is it really? There are actions of feminine and masculine that are attractable. It is about more than the same gender, it is about those features that one finds attractive. When you look for a man, what attracts you first? His personality or superficial features?
"NOTHING THAT YOU INGEST IS BAD". It means NO FOOD is bad.
originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Try addressing this from a theological perspective or don't bother at all.
People are sexually attracted to dogs, sheep, goats, horses, and a variety of other animals, but it is illegal. However, if it were not illegal, what would your feelings be about it then?
Homosexuality is about sex. Why is it ok for children to even be sexual in the first place? People say "I was born gay", how can they be born with a sexual desire? That's just something I don't understand.
BTW, my grandfather was gay, so it's not like I don't know.
Jesus declares that the person judging will be judged (v. 1) because judging assumes a divine prerogative; final judgement belongs to God alone, and those who seek to judge others now will answer then for usurping God's position
The contradictions overturn the idea that Jesus meant ''no food is bad''.
originally posted by: TheRegal
a reply to: sk0rpi0n
Throwing in contradictions doesn't make your point about the passage we're talking about at all.
Doesn't matter if you are an atheist or a voodoo priest. Your ''argument'' regarding mark 7 holds no water. Not because you are an atheist, but because of your inability to process scripture holistically. Taking one verse out of context isn't a bright way to go about on a theological discussions. this has established that atheists shouldn't be talking about religious matters because they simply DON'T get it and waste peoples time talking about things they don't understand.
I'm an Atheist, I'm not going to defend Christianity, and I'm certainly not going to debate you from a "theological perspective"; I don't warp words and sentences to make it suit my personal agenda and act like I'm holier than everyone around me like some of you folk.
I just wanted you to drop that idiotic argument because it was an embarrassment to human intelligence.
Im arguing from the Bible. A jew or an atheist could make the same points and it would still be valid.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Try addressing this from a theological perspective or don't bother at all.
Try addressing this CHRISTIAN teaching from a non-muslim indoctrinated perspective or don't bother at all.
by pointing out the shortcoming of the Pharisees, weeding out their traditions...and completely retaining the law in its original form. More importantly, he made the existing law even more strict.
Jesus PERFECTED the law. He corrected that which was wrong.
originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
a reply to: TheRegal
"NOTHING THAT YOU INGEST IS BAD". It means NO FOOD is bad.
Only when Jesus' other important teachings are blatantly ignored...
"not one dot of the law will pass away
I have not come to destroy the law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 1
originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Im arguing from the Bible.
originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
you have spoken like some authority on Islam just because you claim to have studied it for sometime. Those who are genuinely interested in researching Islam further can google the Islamic side to the "issues" raised in the OP. People don't usually learn science from those opposed to science. So there's no reason for people to learn Islam from those opposed to it.
More importantly, he made the existing law even more strict.
originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: WarminIndy
People are sexually attracted to dogs, sheep, goats, horses, and a variety of other animals, but it is illegal. However, if it were not illegal, what would your feelings be about it then?
Homosexuality is about sex. Why is it ok for children to even be sexual in the first place? People say "I was born gay", how can they be born with a sexual desire? That's just something I don't understand.
BTW, my grandfather was gay, so it's not like I don't know.
This is a moral argument rather than an argument about legality. Bestiality is perverse as is Paedophilia and both of the aforementioned is sex with another animal/human who is not consenting. Trying to put this argument into the same as Homosexuality is also perverse.
Were you born straight? did you make a choice to have sex with the opposite sex or did it come naturally to you as you were "Born this way" as is the same with gay people. If it was a choice as some religious folks believe, why would 350,000,000 gay people in the world chose to become gay in such a hated world, even more so why would they "Choose" to be gay in countries where they can receive the death penalty for being gay?
I think what the OP is saying is there are to many "Cafeteria Christians" who choose what to ignore and what to follow. The main thing that amazes me is is Jesus said the following:
Jesus declares that the person judging will be judged (v. 1) because judging assumes a divine prerogative; final judgement belongs to God alone, and those who seek to judge others now will answer then for usurping God's position
And yet quite a few religious ATS members are constantly ignoring this teaching. Quite a lot of ATS members will have a lot to answer to when they get to the pearly gates, and I personally would love to be a fly on the wall (golden gate) when some of you have some explaining to do.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
I was born human. Sexual inclination was not part of my understanding until puberty.
" This is something you are going to have to address. That's the problem, the gay community sweeps it under the rug, as though it doesn't matter and when the straight people points out this obvious flaw in argument
What makes gay children different than other children then? Sexual desire is not even part of normal childhood.
Women who suffer stress during pregnancy increase the chance of their child being gay, according to a controversial new book. The lifestyle of pregnant mothers affects the sexuality of their unborn child, altering their hormones and the formation of their brains, it claims. Smoking or taking drugs can also result in a child who grows up to be gay, according to the book by Dutch neuroscientist Dick Swaab.
‘Pregnant woman suffering from stress are also more likely to give birth to homosexual children, because their raised levels of the stress hormone cortisol affect the production of fetal sex hormones.’ And he claims: ‘The more older brothers a boy has, the greater the chance that he will be homosexual. ‘This is due to a mother’s immune response to male substances produced by boy babies in the womb, a response that becomes stronger with each pregnancy.’
originally posted by: FlyersFan
originally posted by: WarminIndy
I was born human. Sexual inclination was not part of my understanding until puberty.
It doesn't matter at what age your understanding happens. You are born with orientation in place. Some have life experience that alters that, but most everyone is born with orientation in place. I remember in psychology class - a human sexuality unit - being told about a study done of children born right after the blitz during WWII. The children who were in the womb during the blitz had a much higher percentage of homosexuals among them than the general population. The stress felt by the mother and the unborn child contributed to the orientation. It changed body chemistry during the pregnancy process.
Orientation is chemical. It's not a choice.
Acting on that orientation is a choice ... but not the orientation itself.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
there are many gay people born to mothers who were not under such extreme stress.
If that is the case, then there should have been more gay people born during the Irish Potato Famine.
Human Sexuality And Its Problems
originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: WarminIndy
I really could not be bothered to read all your twoddle, it was like war and peace and when I saw the section where you said
" This is something you are going to have to address. That's the problem, the gay community sweeps it under the rug, as though it doesn't matter and when the straight people points out this obvious flaw in argument
it seems to me that from your point of view only gay people have the morals when it comes to how perverse bestiality and paedophilia and that straight people will argue that its a paedophiles right to have sex with children as gay people have the right to exist.
What makes gay children different than other children then? Sexual desire is not even part of normal childhood.
Yes its called playing Doctors and Nurses, not sure how sheltered your childhood was but sexuality is very obvious in children. Have a look at third world countries where children as young as 8 years old are married off to older men and some have been brutally killed on their wedding night from being raped. Is this acceptable? This is still classed as paedophilia in the western world but accepted in these third world countries. And using your argument that children are not sexulised in anyway proves a valid point that these traditions in these countries are barbaric.
You do seem like another ATS member who has a fascination for tarnishing homosexuality with the same brush as paedophiles. Homosexuality is between two consenting adults, Paedophiles groom young children into having sex with them or by force, absolutely nothing to do with two consenting adults. And yes children can feel they are different at a young age, i for one was about 8 years old when i realised I was different to other boys, that does not mean however i wanted some dirty old man to groom me into having sex.
I find your view and opinions repulsive, nauseating, and stomach-churning
No, you find them disagreeable because you aren't reading all of my "twoddle".
It is simply WRONG to marry girls off, but what about the Bacha Bazi Boys of Afghanistan? Those boys are trained to learn how to service men. But that can't be wrong, can it? It's just a little pederasty, after all. I see, pederasty is absolutely fine as long as it is legal. Is it pedophilia when it comes to the Bacha Bazi boys, or is that just men enjoying young boys who are feminized?
originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: WarminIndy
No, you find them disagreeable because you aren't reading all of my "twoddle".
It is simply WRONG to marry girls off, but what about the Bacha Bazi Boys of Afghanistan? Those boys are trained to learn how to service men. But that can't be wrong, can it? It's just a little pederasty, after all. I see, pederasty is absolutely fine as long as it is legal. Is it pedophilia when it comes to the Bacha Bazi boys, or is that just men enjoying young boys who are feminized?
No i find this abhorrent as well, in fact i find any sexual activity with anyone under the age of 18 is abhorrent and classed as paedophilia. Despite the western world having an age of consent on average of 16 i find distasteful as we should be letting children stay as children for as long as possible as once your an adult it all goes down hill very quickly.
That however does not explain your views whereby you believe homosexuality is the same as paedophilia.