Christianity, homosexuality and pig meat.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Well that is certainly a refreshing view from the standard Christian....

but again, you are one person... This is not the view of the majority of Christianity

I think borderline qualifies as bisexual. But that sounds funny because there is no such word as unisexual.

Perhaps... then again like I've said, there are people who are just addicted to sex... doesn't matter who its with...

Who knows though... I know there are factually people that are born gay...

Whatever does it for ya I suppose...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

Well that is certainly a refreshing view from the standard Christian....

but again, you are one person... This is not the view of the majority of Christianity

I think borderline qualifies as bisexual. But that sounds funny because there is no such word as unisexual.

Perhaps... then again like I've said, there are people who are just addicted to sex... doesn't matter who its with...

Who knows though... I know there are factually people that are born gay...

Whatever does it for ya I suppose...

I don't know about being born gay, there are people who could say they were born pedophiles or born beastialists or born with car fetishes.

a reply to: WarminIndy
Just as Markosity said earlier, even Jesus confirms people are born gay...

For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it

Of course no Christian would ever consider such things coming out of Jesus... but its there... Also why he said let the one who is able to receive it, receive it...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy
Just as Markosity said earlier, even Jesus confirms people are born gay...

For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it

Of course no Christian would ever consider such things coming out of Jesus... but its there... Also why he said let the one who is able to receive it, receive it...

I don't think eunuch means gay or homosexual in that day, because the Romans were very homosexual, so why not use the same word?

What Jesus meant was...if you could bear receiving the cutting off of the member, then by all means do it. Has nothing to do with hearing about it.

Even in Jesus' day, homosexuality was a heinous sin and men would be tied together and thrown into the river. That's the punishment. But sure, you can make it seem Jesus was accepting of everything if you twist His words enough. Where they aware of homosexuality? Of course they were, because it was displayed openly among the Romans.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy
Just as Markosity said earlier, even Jesus confirms people are born gay...

For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it

Of course no Christian would ever consider such things coming out of Jesus... but its there... Also why he said let the one who is able to receive it, receive it...

I don't think eunuch means gay or homosexual in that day, because the Romans were very homosexual, so why not use the same word?

What Jesus meant was...if you could bear receiving the cutting off of the member, then by all means do it. Has nothing to do with hearing about it.

Even in Jesus' day, homosexuality was a heinous sin and men would be tied together and thrown into the river. That's the punishment. But sure, you can make it seem Jesus was accepting of everything if you twist His words enough. Where they aware of homosexuality? Of course they were, because it was displayed openly among the Romans.

Well you are welcome to your opinions...

eunuch was meant in this case as someone who will not ever be with a woman... Not that people were born without their jingly parts... In that day someone born without all the right equipment would be an outcast... In the OT people who have had their man parts mutilated would not be permitted to approach the temple... That would put a serious dent in your religious life... and I don't think Jesus would have wanted that in any case...

I personally think what hes referring to is obviously being born gay... but to each their own

a reply to: Akragon

Haha, you obviously haven't been to a Catholic church then. Everyone is welcome, sinner and saint alike. I'm both gay and Catholic and I've never been told I can't attend or I'm not welcome.

a reply to: markosity1973

admittedly I've never once stepped foot in a catholic church...

That is interesting though... how long have you known you were gay if you don't mind me asking

My friend I was speaking of who I've know since grade 2 knew he was gay before he even knew what gay was

a reply to: Akragon

Same here. I always knew I was a bit different growing up. When I figured it that difference was that I like boys, I was actually well supported, not condemned by the people of the church, it actually was my family who had the problem and some of the information I have posted in this thread was given to me by priests.

a reply to: markosity1973

well I learned something today...

thanks

This thread should've been called "Islam, how you should act, and my weirdass ideology".

originally posted by: WarminIndy
I wouldn't stop a gay person from going to church. But I probably wouldn't listen to them preach, just as I would not listen to a liar or thief preach.

What? Why wouldn't you listen to them preach? What exactly is wrong with a gay pastor, or a gay man or woman preaching the Bible in a Church?

Because they are sinners?

Well, by the logic that 'no one is without sin', the priests are all sinners too, and you are willing to listen to their spiel. Why is being gay any more of a sin than anything else?

@TheRegal..... The speech in mark 7 was in context to the eating of bread with unwashed hands, not the eating of unclean meats. But christians love to misquote that speech it as if Jesus and co. were sitting around eating pork...so they can go ''see, Jesus allowed pork''. Jesus also said that the entire law is to remain and that includes the prohibitions on pork.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
The speech in mark 7 was in context to the eating of bread with unwashed hands, not the eating of unclean meats.

Still stuck on that? That's the muslim misinterpretation of Christian theology.

Catholic Catechism 582

Going even further, Jesus perfects the dietary law, so important in Jewish daily life, by revealing its pedagogical meaning through a divine interpretation: "Whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him. . . (Thus he declared all foods clean.). . . What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts. . ."In presenting with divine authority the definitive interpretation of the Law, Jesus found himself confronted by certain teachers of the Law who did not accept his interpretation of the Law, guaranteed though it was by the divine signs that accompanied it. This was the case especially with the sabbath laws, for he recalls, often with rabbinical arguments, that the sabbath rest is not violated by serving God and neighbor, which his own healings did.

2,000 years of learned Christian theological scholarship is MUCH more reliable than an an armchair anti-Christian Muslim who has stated that he can't wait for Christianity to die. If you really want to know what the passages mean, then I suggest you read what the learned Christian scholars say about it. I posted some. If you don't care about really learning .. then continue on with the propaganda. Your choice.

If you want to think that eating bacon sends someone to hell ... then go ahead and refrain from eating bacon. Adhere to 4500 year old laws made up by superstitious peasants because of poor sanitary conditions. The rest of us are smart enough to understand that you can eat bacon nowadays just fine and still go to heaven.

Bottom line ... Jesus said that whatever enters a man and then is pooped out is not 'unclean' .. and he went on to further say that anyone who doesn't understand that is DULL minded. End of story.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
unclean meats.

Catholic Catechism 582

I know you love your bacon, as you have admitted... but the fact is mark 7 was about eating kosher bread with unclean hands. Mrk 7 has nothing to do with pork. Jesus, the observant Jew would not have allowed it. ____________________________________________________ Jesus said he would reject ''many'' who go up to him saying ''lord,,lord''...and would drive them away calling them ''lawless'', meaning those who ignored the law that jesus said should be kept,

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

No, no, NO.

The Pharisees and all jews had turned basic hygiene into a solemn ritual. They were horrified to see Jesus eat without having followed this ritual and Jesus pointed out in his unique way that eating with dirty hands OR eating whatever does not defile a person. He quite clearly points out that this ritual is a made up and human tradition.

“‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; 7 their teachings are merely human rules.’

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

He also picked corn on the sabbath you know, which was also horrifying to the jews. Jesus time and time again tried to show people that mindlessly following silly tradition doesn't earn one a place in heaven.

It's the state if a persons heart and the way he loves God and fellow man that gets him there. This is classic catholic sunday sermon material i.e. The way to heaven is paved with good deeds, a love of God and a respect for the new covenant, not rigid following of hollow ritual
thinking thats all that is required.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n
So you are sticking to your Muslim interpretation of Christian writings and ignoring 2,000 years of Christian scholarship. The Christian scholars understand it MUCH better. I have suggested that you listen to them and you have rejected that suggestion. But whatever .... go ahead and think that people go to hell for eating pork because a 4500 year old man made law based on superstition and unsanitary conditions says so. We know better.

originally posted by: markosity1973
It's the state if a persons heart and the way he loves God and fellow man that gets him there.

YEP.

"Love God with all your heart mind soul and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself' ... this ACCORDING TO JESUS .. sums up what it means to be a Christian. That's it.

It's not a legalistic mess of 'if you eat bacon you go to hell' or 'if you cut your beard wrong you go to hell' or 'if you plant a garden with mixed seeds you go to hell' ... that's leviticus crap and NOT what Jesus taught at all. He ignored the nonsense and went straight to what is important .. love and mercy and compassion. He presented an EVOLVED way of life and way of worship. If people would actually do what Jesus said - LOVE, MERCY, COMPASSION - then the ignorance in the world and a lot of the problems would disappear.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Pharisees and all jews had turned basic hygiene into a solemn ritual. They were horrified to see Jesus eat without having followed this ritual and Jesus pointed out in his unique way that eating with dirty hands OR eating whatever does not defile a person.

its true that the Pharisees had an ocd-ish way of keeping the law. However, Jesus never explicitly said its okay to eat pork, as christians have misconstrued Jesus' speech. The pharisees found fault with Jesus' disciples eating with unwashed hands. Jesus rebuttal that food doesn't defile a person had to do with unwashed hands...NOT food prohibited by levitical law...which Jesus said would remain till ''heaven and earth pass away''. Those at the scene described in mark 7 didnt even bring up pork. Jesus would have never allowed pork consumption.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Pharisees and all jews had turned basic hygiene into a solemn ritual. They were horrified to see Jesus eat without having followed this ritual and Jesus pointed out in his unique way that eating with dirty hands OR eating whatever does not defile a person.

its true that the Pharisees had an ocd-ish way of keeping the law. However, Jesus never explicitly said its okay to eat pork, as christians have misconstrued Jesus' speech. The pharisees found fault with Jesus' disciples eating with unwashed hands. Jesus rebuttal that food doesn't defile a person had to do with unwashed hands...NOT food prohibited by levitical law...which Jesus said would remain till ''heaven and earth pass away''. Those at the scene described in mark 7 didnt even bring up pork. Jesus would have never allowed pork consumption.

Jesus also never talked about ice cream, pizza, Coca Cola, Soyburgers, mashed potatoes. But we all eat those. Jesus never talked about tobacco, but you don't use tobacco because Mohammed said not to, and you all don't drink alcohol because Mohammed said not to, and yet Jesus never forbade drinking alcohol.

Jesus also never talked about drinking camel pee, but y'all believe that one is ok.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: sk0rpi0n
Christian scholarship.

That's a contradiction in terms.....It's not scholarship, it's all mummery.

When you consider what's been actually done in the name of 'organised religion', it's very hard not to view it as innately evil.....All the more so because of the constant preaching of love and brotherhood, while actually propagating hate and division.

The decision to be a good person, or not, is purely your own, don't base it on a book, base it on what feels right.....Then accept the consequences of your actions.

Simple.