US Cops shooting dogs - An non US Citizens view

originally posted by: On the level
As a Scotsman and proud dog owner, the continued reports from the US and on ATS of American police happily shooting any dog they see as any sort of threat is very worrying. I love my dog and if anyone shot him in my presence I would likely kill them, no boasting or being an internet hard guy, thats a fact, I see him as my child.
What worries me about the shootings is not just the frequency of them, but the lack of action by the American public, people seem to just accept this as the status quo. I feel this is another level of social conditioning, first they shoot dogs then the will ramp up shooting anyone on their own door step. The no knock entries to homes, increased weaponry, military vehicles the list goes on to what is happening to the US police forces, they are out of hand, too heavy handed and clearly think they are above the law.
I really feel sorry about what America has become, and what I perceive to be the end of American freedoms and the creation of a police state. I only hope revolution comes quickly as the US is now seen around the world as a worse place to live than the majority of countries you are meant to be against or trying to free.

I can't read any of those stories without feeling murderous. You're right, if that ever happened to my dog or someone else's dog in front of me I'd either be dead or in prison within 10 minutes.

originally posted by: On the level
a reply to: Bassago

I think the majority of Europe would stand with American citizens that rebel against the terrible Government currently in charge. The system needs to come down and police and polititians alike made to pay for their crimes

plenty in the uk that will stand with our brothers and sisters

A dog can tear out your throat if it's large enough and trained to attack, so it's not unacceptable to kill one if it truly seems to be a threat to your life. Some of those cases might be an excessive use of force, but if a cop feels threatened he can shoot, that's his prerogative.

Maybe dog owners should keep better control over their animals.

a reply to: On the level

Police in the United States are being trained to see the population as the enemy and to act aggressively to any threat. In the end, shooting the dog is a good way to intimidate people. They train police to shoot the dog to "protect themselves" first if it seems aggressive. That is the justification but the point is intimidation. Most cops don't know how to interpret the finer points of body language in a dog and they certainly don't train them to. If it is a big dog or an "aggressive" breed that is so much as barking at a cop it will likely be shot.

If you would go to the mat for your dog I respect that, but if they shot my dog it would be a clear signal to me that if they interpret what I do as aggressive I am at risk. If I didn't have children I might get belligerent about it but I think I would probably sit down and shut up so no human beings get hurt because of a power-tripping, jumpy or some combination cop. I get where you are coming from though.

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
A dog can tear out your throat if it's large enough and trained to attack, so it's not unacceptable to kill one if it truly seems to be a threat to your life. Some of those cases might be an excessive use of force, but if a cop feels threatened he can shoot, that's his prerogative.

Maybe dog owners should keep better control over their animals.

There have been multiple stories posted here in the past, where the dog owner pleaded with LEO to let them put their dog in the house so they could talk with the LEO, about whatever reason they had arrived in the first place. The dogs where shot anyway. Sometimes the poor dog is chased around to a back yard then shot. If the dog is running away, why the hell shoot it?

It' out of control power tripping by too many LEO, who are in a tax paid position of civil service. They are more now, acting like paid thugs, looking to shock and intimidate...not enforce the law. They are now making up the law as they go.

Des

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
A dog can tear out your throat if it's large enough and trained to attack, so it's not unacceptable to kill one if it truly seems to be a threat to your life. Some of those cases might be an excessive use of force, but if a cop feels threatened he can shoot, that's his prerogative.

Maybe dog owners should keep better control over their animals.

Come on... You can't be serious. In 2013 a total of 33 police were killed in the line of duty. 14 were firearms related, 11 we traffic fatalities and 8 were by "other" causes. None of those were by a dog however. W are at the point now whe civilian fatalities alone by Police in America outnumber the US military deaths in Iraq. I tried but haven't been able to find any recent statistics on civilian owned dogs killed by police but its certainly a safe bet that we are in far more danger of the police attacking or killing us and our pets than they are of us harming or killing them. It's a big crock of poo that these guys lives are in desperate danger every second of the day. THEY are the danger.

None of those statistics even take into consideration the litany of stories I read every week about some police officer running through a persons back yard in the dark of night without a warrant and shooting dogs who are behind fences because they cops were scared. I'm sorry but if they're so damned scared when wearing body armor and carrying lethal and less than lethal weapons they are cowards and children who should be working at the local car wash.

originally posted by: Destinyone

originally posted by: Gallowglaich
A dog can tear out your throat if it's large enough and trained to attack, so it's not unacceptable to kill one if it truly seems to be a threat to your life. Some of those cases might be an excessive use of force, but if a cop feels threatened he can shoot, that's his prerogative.

Maybe dog owners should keep better control over their animals.

There have been multiple stories posted here in the past, where the dog owner pleaded with LEO to let them put their dog in the house so they could talk with the LEO, about whatever reason they had arrived in the first place. The dogs where shot anyway. Sometimes the poor dog is chased around to a back yard then shot. If the dog is running away, why the hell shoot it?

It' out of control power tripping by too many LEO, who are in a tax paid position of civil service. They are more now, acting like paid thugs, looking to shock and intimidate...not enforce the law. They are now making up the law as they go.

Des

Well, this may be true, but most of the cops I've met did not give me the impression of "thugs looking to shock and intimidate". I believe that the majority are genuinely interested in helping and protecting people.

What I can't stand is spoiled, pampered rich kids saying "f*ck the police" to seem hard and cool, like they hear in rap songs. That behavior is for ignorant children, not grown men and women.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

It's a bit difficult to train a dog not to bark at someone entering its property with a gun drawn. If a cop is attacked by a dog in the street then fair enough but to enter private properties and shoot dogs for defending their owners is madness.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

I can understand your feelings. As I live on top of a very rural mountain, I don't ever hear kids saying that nor rap music.

My local LEO are just good old country boys, whom for the most part, like the mail man up here, carry dog cookies in their pockets when they come to your home.

Des

originally posted by: 727Sky
...are really such a small percentage of the norm it is not something I go to bed at night fearing.

How do you know? You likely didn't think it was happening at all until the advent of the cell phone camera. That's when you discovered this stuff was going on ALL ALONG. Me, being of Irish descent (mostly), we had a large percentage of LEOs, and as you might expect, it was all the #holes. I had one cousin who was bound and determined to be a LEO from the age of maybe 7 (it's all he ever talked about). He was a kind sort of guy. I didn't think he'd last, and he didn't, he was cast out, ostracized, for testifying against one of his fellow officers. Mike was too straight. Wouldn't testi-lie for the guy. In fact, he went out of his way to go to another state to provide a negative character witness and to clarify some 'cleaned up' records. The guy ended up with some jail time and Mike, he couldn't work for the PD anymore. Now he's an arson investigator.

But the ones that were on the take or liked beating the dog crap out of people, they did right well.

You want an eye opener, go for a ride along, and encourage the cop a bit. It won't take much. You'll get an eye full.

originally posted by: On the level

The no knock entries to homes, increased weaponry, military vehicles the list goes on to what is happening to the US police forces, they are out of hand, too heavy handed and clearly think they are above the law.
I really feel sorry about what America has become, and what I perceive to be the end of American freedoms and the creation of a police state. I only hope revolution comes quickly as the US is now seen around the world as a worse place to live than the majority of countries you are meant to be against or trying to free.

In a POLICE STATE the ENEMY of the POLICE is the PEOPLE.
Therefore the ENEMY of the PEOPLE is the POLICE

When someone or something is out to GET YOU, there is NO BARGAINING or JUSTIFYING their actions.

THEY are ALL TRAITORS to the ONCE FREE REPUBLIC, and traitors of the WORST TYPE. Betraying our ancestors along with us for the 3 P's.

paycheck
pension
prestige

a reply to: On the level

With the proliferation of the Pit Bull breed in the last few decades, I'm not surprised. As a rule, the dog is vicious and should never be trusted. They don't bark (much) they attack. I've had personal experience dating back to when the breed was largely unknown in the US, in the early 1980s and as recently as a few months ago with a neighbor's dog.

The problem with the pit bull is the situation where they are frequently found: the attitudes and life style of the owners. Those people tend to be on the meaner site of society in about any way you care to mention. They tend to like the idea of having a dog with powerful jaws that will die before it lets go of its prey. The dogs pick up on how to respond to others, especially strangers.

Anybody that disagrees with any of the above, first research why police have shot somebody's pit bull and you will frequently see the connection between owner and dog. Of the ten breeds of dogs that have the most recorded attacks on humans in the US, the pit bull ranks at about 60% of ALL biting dogs. I could recite a personal horror story about one episode I had with a pit bull, but you can find plenty of stories on the internet.

All of that said, I have a son, not exactly an upstanding citizen from a law-and-order position, that has two pit bulls. He seems to be about the typical pit bull owner,

a reply to: On the level

Im a non US citizen and the reports of cops in US shooting dogs frequently for what appears as trivial reasons (e.g. Dog barked at me as I kicked in door), is simply pathetic. Im fully for animal rights and wont sit back ever and say nothing about. To me I see there are stemic attitude problems existing within elements of a police force which is there to serve and protect. When they start blasting Dogs for no good reason they are doing is not that.

The op has pointed out how he views the shooting of dogs by the cops is out of control and views it as wrong. But the problem is that the media only shows one side of the story, nor does it accurately portray the actual statistics that happen, and how quickly we have forgotten the past history of events and tragedies that have occurred in the past and the nature of the very animals that we would have as companions. Before you flame, please read the entire postings and consider this:

A dog is not a human, and even though we would view them as our family, and like children, they are not. They are animals, with the same mentality and nature as their distant relatives, the wolves. They are social creatures, and tend to try to please their pack leader. But the people of the USA are a wasteful people; make no mistake we are a toss away society, getting rid of what we do not want or desire, throwing it away and moving on. It is estimated that 3 to 4 million dogs are put down every year. And that is just one estimate, and then there are those who would use some animals to do some of the more unspeakable things, like dog fighting. And that creates another problem in its entirety, and creates a situation that causes the belief that an entire breed is dangerous.

And then you have the bad and poor owners, who do not work with their animal, take no time to train, or keep their animal under control where it becomes a threat to the local population all around. Many cities and states have laws on the books, where the owners are responsible for the actions of their dogs, to include leash laws. The reality is that, in some states, if a dog bites a person, it is put down. And if the animal was either not under control of the owner, or the owner provoked the animals to attack, then the owner becomes guilty of assault with a deadly weapon. Make no mistake these kinds of incidents happen. In 2013, there were at least 30 fatalities where a dog was involved.

While the Op is correct that the police do shoot dogs and feel it is wrong, here again it is only half of the story, as the police have to make decisions and choices when coming up to a scene. If the dog is running around, or shows aggressive tendencies, then the officer, in the name of public safety will shoot to kill the animal. Would you want to be mauled by a dog, or what would you say to say a parent if their child was attacked by a dog? What if it was your child, would you be willing to accept that the police, decided not to stop the danger?

Now if the animal is restrained, and say in a fenced in yard, then the police is in the wrong, but if the animal is not, then the police is in the right. And that is only half of the story and situation, consider this, if you get bit by a strange dog, and cannot find the owner, are you willing to go through the pain and agony that will follow from such a bite? As sad as it is, some owner s do not get their dogs vaccinated, and that poses another threat to people, and from what I hear, 10 to 20 shots are given. Would you want to go through that nightmare?

a reply to: sdcigarpig

so the taser is only a tool to torture people with then?

why not zap the dog? usually a weak little shock collar works, much less a taser.

the simple act of going FIRST for the gun and not the taser, or heck EVEN the PEPPER SPRAY? no excuse, other than coward

a reply to: sdcigarpig

How odd that postal carriers go into peoples' yards every day without having to kill the dogs.

Or the meter guys. Or fire department. Or...well, you get the idea. Not every dog is a pit bull, although I get the idea that you guys see them that way. And of course, you always get away with shooting a dog, the way the law is written. So if the owner mouths you a bit - bam! Lesson taught, eh?

a reply to: Aliensun

Why use facts when wild stereotyping will do the trick to justify asinine actions by law enforcement. Well done. Your assessment is akin to "Ive had a couple of crappy run ins with Hispanics so all people of Spanish ancestry are by default terrible people" or more prominent stereotypes like all Irish are alcoholics. It's ludicrous at best.

a reply to: schuyler

You worry about a couple of dogs shot in the USA? How about worrying about dogs being eaten in the Far East? It's more than a few.

It's more than a few , more like one every 98 minutes in our country, and the dogs in the far east are not considered family members like most of ours are.

originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: sdcigarpig

How odd that postal carriers go into peoples' yards every day without having to kill the dogs.

Or the meter guys. Or fire department. Or...well, you get the idea. Not every dog is a pit bull, although I get the idea that you guys see them that way. And of course, you always get away with shooting a dog, the way the law is written. So if the owner mouths you a bit - bam! Lesson taught, eh?

In 2012 almost 6,000 postal workers were bitten by dogs, how odd indeed.

a reply to: speculativeoptimist

How does that compare to the nearly 1,000,000 pit bulls put down in shelters every year. Go ahead and do the math.

Also, about 4.5 million people get bit every year in the U.S. by dogs.