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Why I believe "the West" is obsolete...

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posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 03:07 AM
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Russia's not nearly as powerful or influential as it was, and will never be the superpower the Soviet Union was ever again. Cold War II is here, but it isn't about nuclear deterrence, its a cyberwar.

Between the US and the EU.

US claims EU plans to build ring-fenced network may 'break global trade rules'
US Officials: EU’s NSA-Proof Communications System Violates Trade Laws
Obama Administration Criticizes EU Plan to Avoid NSA Data Surveillance as a Violation of Trade Agreement

The office of the US Trade Representative hit out at the Deutsche Telekom proposal to create an EU-centric communications system to cut the NSA out of the loop on intra-European phone and email conversations. Both Germany and France are said to be on board in a big way for the plan.

The US is claiming the move would be a “violation” of international trade laws, and would put US technology companies, particularly those that have been revealed to be in league with the NSA, at an “unfair” disadvantage to European companies.

The US Trade Representative office was similarly riled by Canada’s own internal email system, which aimed to store data inside Canada to prevent NSA snooping. They argued that with everything moving to the “cloud” these days the Canadian move was damaging to the market leaders, who are not coincidentally all US companies involved with the NSA Prism program.

Has the European Court of Justice just holed Obama’s NSA data gathering reform?


On the face of it, a triumph for democracy. The Data Retention Directive was bad law, forced through without due scrutiny on the back of the bombings in London and Madrid.

Terrible though those incidents clearly were, using them as an excuse to fast track ill-considered and disproportionate legislation was never an acceptable response.

The EU will have to go back to the drawing board, which is good news for the likes of Commissioner for Justice Vivian Reding in her hell-bent campaign to toughen up EU data protection laws. Never waste a good crisis, as they say.

Reding is running out of time – her term in office ends in September. Her patience with those who don’t go along with her interpretation of the need for tough new laws is also running out it seems, based on comments she made earlier this year:

“There has been a lot of hypocrisy in the debate. There were those who called for a high level of data protection in Europe, while simultaneously arguing that the Regulation should be replaced by a Directive. A Directive would mean the status quo. It would mean 28 Member States doing what they want. It would mean data protection on paper but not in practice.

“We have listened to these arguments for two years. Round and round in circles while, every day, the headlines have reminded us of why the reform is important. Waiting patiently – or maybe not so patiently – as Big Data has been generated against the will of the people.

“And yet in practice where do we stand? Discussions are mature. The text is ready. It is just a matter of political will.”


I don't know about you guys, but I'm beginning to see the world moving away from and isolating the EU. Whether this is a good thing for the US or not only time will tell.

Liberman slams remarks by EU’s Ashton against construction in settlements


“Luckily, the European Union knows how to recognize critical problems in the world and to deal with them quickly and decisively,” Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman said ironically on Friday.

“While the world struggles to solve the crisis in Ukraine, while innocent people are slaughtered in Syria, while suicide bombings continue in Iraq, the EU’s foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton has issued a statement about the real danger to world peace and has called on Israel to reverse its actions against the Palestinians,” Liberman said.


Now I'm no fan of Israel, but there are better ways to resolve this conflict.

Report: EU officials demand compensation for Israeli demolition of E1 structures


Eighteen tin huts built to house Palestinians during the unusually severe winter weather this year were "partially funded by EU member states," according to the report.

EU officials demanded financial compensation from Israel to Brussels in response to the demolition of three of the structures, Belgian news service EurActiv reported.


I believe this fragmentation of US-EU relations is seeing a destabilization of the pan-American empire we commonly refer to as "the West". I also believe the EU, NATO and Russia are working together over Ukraine. This way, the EU gets the Ukraine, and Putin gets its eastern region. The Russian and Ukrainian people here are the real losers, as Putin gets Crimea and probably other parts of the Ukraine, the US and NATO get to look like they're still needed, and nobody notices what is going on in the EU with the NSA scandal as we're all distracted by this Crimean crisis. It's not only Cold War II, it is the Invisible War. The war between the US, and the new emerging superpower to rival them, the EU.




posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 03:12 AM
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a reply to: Davian

Interesting perspective.

When something becomes obsolete, it has been replaced. In this case what do you think has "replaced" The West.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 04:08 AM
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Gotta love the let us spy on you or else there.... what
hubris. I am convinced these people are insane.
edit on 20-4-2014 by bloodreviara because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 04:21 AM
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originally posted by: Infinitis
a reply to: Davian

Interesting perspective.

When something becomes obsolete, it has been replaced. In this case what do you think has "replaced" The West.


BRICS, possibly. Only time will tell.
edit on 20-4-2014 by Davian because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 04:52 AM
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a reply to: Davian
All systems are bubbles, they grow and grow and they pop. Some pop before their organic time and others overstretch themselves.The good news is there are many bubbles that exist and yet nobody has seen or heard of them. On the other hand there is more to life than bubbles.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 05:04 AM
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originally posted by: Infinitis
When something becomes obsolete, it has been replaced. In this case what do you think has "replaced" The West.


The West is not obsolete. The West is a term to describe the advanced developed economies. No coincidence that these are also liberal democracies.

You can whine on about the word "democracy" and cherry pick its deficiencies, but I would rather the West than some autocratic one-party dictatorship, like the China model.

Regardless of the problems between the EU and the US et al, these nations will stand together because the alternatives are probably worse. They have more in common than different.

On the BRICS - these are just developing nations and there is no evidence that they will not shaft each other for advantage. In fact, we know they will. There is no love lost between China and India, the biggest democracy versus the biggest dictatorship.

Regards

Regards



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: Davian

The world is preparing to restructure. I don't think the EU will ever become a superpower. If the EU was too ambitious to become one it would likely over-extend itself and find its' precious Euro-system vulnerable to the real superpowers - UK, USA, China, Russia, India. I wouldn't think Germany wants to foot the bill for such a risky extension of the EU. If anything it seems the euro is preparing to isolate further in a way and strengthen itself from the inside through the economic relations of its' own individual countries. These old countries are too rooted to unite the same way the states in the USA are. All the European empires have morphed into the American empire, now Europe gets to sit back and relax while America does the heavy lifting so I don't see why they would extend themselves like people imply.

All in all I see this as a good thing for America. With Europe further sidelined and focused on domestic affairs objectives, limitations and obstacles become clearer.
edit on 20-4-2014 by On7a7higher7plane because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: Infinitis

if you want all you can eat on this, the central hub is a guy called Carol Quigley
research him & get an Ebook version (free download) of his book tragedy & hope
make sure you taste the side dishes, with elegant notes of clinton, fresh mancini's & farmhouse organic russel trust
or wade through 27 mp3 lectures over at ffmp3.org to hear snippets (troll the 1998 catalogues, iirc?)
or just uhh, research the guy

if you want an insight into the decline of western civilization, this is good tinfoil sandwiches



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: Davian


I also believe the EU, NATO and Russia are working together over Ukraine. This way, the EU gets the Ukraine, and Putin gets its eastern region.


I thought the big gas pipeline that feeds Europe runs through the Ukraine? Control that and theres billions in it.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: paraphi

You do get that some people who live in EU hate America (for it's actions) and think it should be sanctioned like Iran is on all levels. We are clearly not with "the corporated fascist government" and "gold stealing fed" with it's "corporate propaganda machine" controlling blind people.

The whole EU and US stand together is insane. US is a bad insane ally to have that just causes trouble and should be thrown to it's fate as fast as possible. You cannot be ally to insanity. The game has been set to make US the villain. And US is doing every insane thing to act like it.
edit on 20-4-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-4-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 06:22 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Davian


I also believe the EU, NATO and Russia are working together over Ukraine. This way, the EU gets the Ukraine, and Putin gets its eastern region.


I thought the big gas pipeline that feeds Europe runs through the Ukraine? Control that and theres billions in it.



I would call it 3 pipes but there are other around so the pipes it probably not that big of a deal. It might be a continuation on the Syrian Quatar/Saudiarabia vs Iran pipe conflict so that Iran cannot make a pipe thru black sea through Ukraine to EU.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 06:38 AM
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a reply to: Davian

The concept of "the west" is about values. I don't think those values are obsolete.

It seems like certain elements in certain places in the west are abandoning, or at least deteriorating those values lately, and unless this development is halted and reversed, "the west" might actually be in danger of breaking apart.

And did the US seriosly expect the nations of the EU would just let them spy on our industry without consequences??
edit on 20-4-2014 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 06:57 AM
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originally posted by: LittleByLittle
You do get that some people who live in EU hate America (for it's actions) and think it should be sanctioned like Iran is on all levels. We are clearly not with "the corporated fascist government" and "gold stealing fed" with it's "corporate propaganda machine" controlling blind people.


Yes, I think that a small number of people in the EU "hate America", but that the vast majority don't. In fact, most people either don't care or recognise that US politicians overstep the mark on occasion. You (personally) may think the US are "corporated fascist...", but I think most people would mock such sentiments as being rather dramatic and silly. After all, the EU is just a big economic trading block, just like the US and both are dependent on each other.

Regards



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 07:29 AM
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I am just ecstatic that the EU is a super-power! Well done EU! So the US can withdraw from NATO? Even better! I'm tired of paying tax dollars to back up Italy after that whole Operation El Dorado Canyon debacle. But I'm a little confused. Is the idea that the EU will form an alliance with Russia to crush the US, or is the EU going to be the new "big dog" on the block? Good to know a Super-Powers game plan in advance. After all, look what Snowden did for the Russians? He coughs up a huge load of sensitive intelligence to the Russians, and hey presto, they're starting to take territory! Wonder what was on all those laptops Snowden had with him? Yep. Things are looking up!

And a closed loop comms system for Europe? that means your not "connectd " to the U.S. comms system, right? So you won't be able to call US? and we won't be able to call EU? See how that works? A little play on words for our former EU friends. So, you'll be unable to monitor our stock markets or stuff like that right? That is just so cool!

A world were I am completely cut off from Europeans? What's the hold up?
It's game on like donkey kong! I can't wait. We just had some people from Belgium move in a couple doors down. I can't wait to let them know about the EU cutting off the ability to correspond with they're family back home. Well, I suppose they could write letters but, just to make it a clean break, let's cut off the mail service to! What's that saying? Cutting off ones nose to spite ones face? Please, by all means feel free Europe, cut away!


Just a final question Europeans, you don't have any Snowdens you should worry about right? There's "nobody" we can exploit to gain access to those closed loop European comms systems right? Also, since you've put your game plan on the table, the solution for US is quite simple. And it's a move you should have anticipated. What if US forms an alliance with Russia first? Dasvidaniya Europeans. Sleep tight! I KNOW I will!



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 07:45 AM
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a reply to: paraphi

I would strongly consider his post on this, as he lives there. Also

en.wikipedia.org...

The term anti-Americanism, or anti-American sentiment, refers to opposition or hostility to the policies, culture, society, economics, international, or superpower role of the United States.

And all of the above...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.realclearpolitics.com...

A major selling point of the Obama campaign in 2008 was the promise to improve the U.S. image overseas, heal the rifts with traditional allies in Western Europe, and eliminate the anti-Americanism that had burgeoned during the Bush years. In his first term, President Obama undoubtedly began to keep this promise, thanks to his personal charisma, but thanks as well to a fundamental change of course in foreign policy.

Yet his second term has begun with sudden eruptions of precisely that political hostility to the United States that he had promised to end. At stake are not the usual suspects—ideological regimes such as North Korea or Venezuela—but, worrisomely, countries with strong histories of cooperation with the U.S. and in which America has deep investments. Both in Germany and in Egypt—two very different cases, to be sure—politicians and parties have chosen to decry Washington. Anti-Americanism is back.

For Germany, the NSA affair touched raw nerves. Contemporary Germans have a strong sense of privacy rights, and the memories of the East German Stasi, not to mention the Gestapo, makes them particularly allergic to suggestions of government snooping. In addition, the Snowden revelations hit the news during the lead up to the September elections.

The underdog Social Democrats (SPD) made a calculated decision to attack Chancellor Merkel and the Christian Democrats (CDU) for betraying German interests through collaboration with U.S. intelligence gathering. A hostile press has portrayed America as a demonic surveillance state that combines unlimited spying with targeted killings. Demonstrators directed their animosity toward the U.S. President, with bitterly ironic slogans (in English) like “Yes, We Scan.” Poster’s juxtaposed Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I have a dream” with an image of Obama tagged with “I have a drone.” The CDU has hit back hard, pointing out that cooperation between German and American intelligence services dates back to agreements reached when a coalition of the SPD and the Greens was in power.


Both, however, have enjoyed strong and positive ties to Washington over decades, and both are of considerable strategic importance in their respective regions: Germany as the bedrock of the European Union and Egypt as the most populous state in the Middle East and the genuine foundation of the Arab world. It is therefore especially urgent to understand these sudden anti-American turns in the two political landscapes.

Public opinion offers a partial explanation. While recent Pew Research polling data show that the U.S. enjoys high favorability ratings in most of Europe, the picture is in fact quite mixed. In the UK, 58 percent view the United States favorably, but a significant minority, 30 percent, holds negative views. Matters are worse in Germany, with only 53 percent holding favorable views of America (the lowest rate in western Europe), and 40 percent negative. To put that in context, America’s negative ratings are as high in our long-standing ally Germany as they are in our Cold-War competitor Russia. German politicians who care more about votes than about principles could well be tempted to play the anti-American card in order to fuel an election campaign.

press.princeton.edu...

No survey can capture the breadth and depth of the anti-Americanism that has swept Europe in recent years. From ultraconservative Bavarian grandmothers to thirty-year-old socialist activists in Greece, from globalization opponents to corporate executives--Europeans are joining in an ever louder chorus of disdain for America. For the first time, anti-Americanism has become a European lingua franca.


More troubling, Markovits argues, is that this anti-Americanism has cultivated a new strain of anti-Semitism. Above all, he shows that while Europeans are far apart in terms of their everyday lives and shared experiences, their not being American provides them with a powerful common identity--one that elites have already begun to harness in their quest to construct a unified Europe to rival America.


You have to take into consideration it is the elite that hold influence over the civilizations over the years of human history that steer its direction. The people have no real say, they never have. If the elite want something their way, they'll have it their way. Either through force, coercion, or trickery (false-flags), so factor this in when making short-sighted judgment calls.

fistfulofeuros.net...


Scratch the surface of the denunciations from on high, however, and French anti-Americanism is not quite what it seems. First, because it is an elite doctrine that is often not shared by ordinary people. Second, because it is used by the political class more as a scapegoat for its own troubles than as a reasoned response to real threats.


The Anglo-American elite want a Cold War II between the US and EU, this much I am certain, just as they wanted strife between NATO and Russia over Crimea, as Cold War I wounds still run deep, it would be essential to do so to distract from the false-flag set up by them involving the NSA and FBI designed to launch Cold War II. It's a backdoor of sorts. Everyone's gonna expect Russia, with its track-record involving the first Cold War to be the culprit once again, when really it is the Anglo-American elite (or, according to THEM, the EU). You see where I'm coming from? I'm not putting the blame on the EU, but rather, those that pull its strings. The elite.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

Yes, a big deal… the biggest straw runs right through Kiev.


www.geocurrents.info...

Scientific American
edit on 20-4-2014 by intrptr because: pic



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: Davian

What do I get from Russia? What do I need from Russia? Music, food, fashion, cars, planes, nope they suck.

Watch this video, they need our help but it might be too late.


www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: ColCurious


The concept of "the west" is about values. I don't think those values are obsolete.

they're devolving us all into animals
animals have no morality
no concept of good or evil
that's ultimately what it's all about







...oh,
spoiler alert



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Yes, a big deal… the biggest straw runs right through Kiev.


www.geocurrents.info...

Scientific American


I do not get how the EU are supposed to sell Ukraine gas cheap "to not have to pay Russia", if the demand for all Europe is not transported from the northern pipes. But then that is under the assumption that EU selling indirect Russian gas from the other direction is not just a big propaganda lie. It is not like the western media are know as telling any truths now days.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: Infinitis
a reply to: Davian

Interesting perspective.

When something becomes obsolete, it has been replaced. In this case what do you think has "replaced" The West.


Exactly. What replaced the US? My guess? Both Snowden and Assange had links in Hong Kong (H.Q. of the Chinese Triad [mafia]), and Snowden is protected by Moscow, while at the same time destroying the US while North Korea is building concentration camps, Middle-East population is treated as trash by their own government, AND, the same guy who's protecting Snowden is attacking Ukraine and starting a new war.

And, people in the US suggest a suicidal revolt against an army of drones and advanced weaponry.

Who's replacing the US? My guess?

The Fifth Column.



Finally, but not least, as a member pointed out above, morality is breaking apart, good values are now exposed as wrong, and bad values are now exposed as good (Satanism, Might makes Right, etc).

Food for thoughts.
edit on 20-4-2014 by starheart because: (no reason given)





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