100 Facts About The Moral Collapse Of America That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe

tothetenthpower

isn't that exactly what makes this so subjective? That there are a variety of circumstances that multiple people have different ideas about?

That's why IMO I can't judge in that way unless I know all the facts. If you choose to have unprotected sex and forgo testing in an age where we know there is a high risk of contracting STD's from that behavior, than it certainly could be immoral of you to do that, but there are a variety of other adjectives I could ascribe to that.

Uneducated, ignorant, etc..

Sure, there are things that aren't subjective, like harming other people. We've all decided that's bad.

~Tenth

The thing is that you admit yourself that this is all so messy and complicated and morally subjective.

Maybe this is why the basic moral standard was set at *gasp* finding one partner and attempting to confine one's sexual activities to that one partner. It's better for you; it's better for them. It's better for society.

We reduce all the messy entanglements caused by the drama and the possible STDs and everything else.

Granted, many fall way short of that standard, but that's still no reason to give up. If you fail to reach your goal or fall short of it, does that still mean the struggle wasn't worth it if it helped avert even some of the problems?

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

Bernie Madoff decided....what do you think of his take on it
Hitler decided.....what do you think of his conclusion
Mao decided....
Stalin decided...
Nero decided.....

When does God start deciding?

Spiramirabilis
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

Bernie Madoff decided....what do you think of his take on it
Hitler decided.....what do you think of his conclusion
Mao decided....
Stalin decided...
Nero decided.....

When does God start deciding?

that....I think....is the last thing we want.....if you believe any of the crazy stories in the Bible.....

if you don't believe those....then .... who is this "God" you speak of?

tothetenthpower
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

GOD GIVEN RIGHTS is a bloody place holder, it doesn't imply religion nor should it. It was simply the base language in which it was written, back in the 1800's.

It should be UNALIENABLE RIGHTS.

God didn't write the constitution, men did. The reference to God they make is just that, a reference, it holds no more meaning than the one I put above.

I agree with you regarding people's rights, but the idea that morality and rights must come from some *higher* power that we can't all agree on is actually more detrimental than what I propose.Regardless of your GOD or your BELIEFS or your OPINIONS, these are rights that you CANNOT take away because they are UNALIENABLE.

Not because some imaginary man in the sky gave them to us.

It isn't based in religion and it isn't based on morality it's based in the LAW that we as a society agreed are good and proper.

the problem with your ilk is that you believe this and not only is the morality of the country going down but so are my GOD GIVEN rights....

You can keep the above to yourself, it has no place on ATS in a civil and proper discussion. I haven't attacked your character and I would hope you refrain from doing the same. It really doesn't help your argument, it just makes it look like you've run out of steam so you're resorting to name calling.

Also, those who are 'removing' your "god given rights" are mostly folk who subscribe to the idea that God does indeed exist. All those major players in political power in the US are Christians. So, look in the mirror for who is ruining your right to do what you please.

~Tenth

edit on 4/11/2014 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

saying "your ilk" is not what I would call an attack....as it just means "people like you"......so again not sure where the attack is.....maybe it is in the mirror as you suggested.

either way....I was not trying to attack your character.....just saying that humanists are "all the rage" right now.....and that you seem to be a humanist.....which is fine. I am not....and I hope that is fine too.

as for Christians in congress taking rights away.....it isn't even about that.....it isn't about the people doing the taking.....it is about all of us.....the ones getting taken....we are allowing it.....this is the problem.

we lack the moral high ground, the intense selflessness yet spiked with total self reliance that we used to just be "bred" with in the old days.

I am not saying the wild west was more moral as far as....."sins" if you will.....but more honorable, more respectful, more....helpful....less dependent on others and government and technology

and I am not saying I want to go back to oil burning lamps and ramshackle houses and riding horses.....

I just want men to be men, women to be women and the government to fear us instead of us fearing them....
I want our schools to actually teach 2+2=4.....

ahhhh....but whatever....maybe I just need to get my Google Glasses, my Prius, get a sex change and shut up

imwilliam

or I can get them through illicit drug use....

Don't forget toilet seats. You can get std's or pregnant from those too

LOL....yeah I forgot about that...!!

and swimming in pools....

many a man has gotten stds from toilet seats ....

tothetenthpower
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

GOD GIVEN RIGHTS is a bloody place holder, it doesn't imply religion nor should it. It was simply the base language in which it was written, back in the 1800's.

It should be UNALIENABLE RIGHTS.

I think you meant 1700's ....

I never said anything about religion.....just a higher power that the framers of the Constitution called "God"...

you can call it whatever you want....Nature, common sense, Zen .....it doesn't matter

what matters is admitting that we have to agree upon our rights as humans on planet Earth being derived from something higher than we humans or else.....they are just made up by humans and can be taken by humans.

ketsuko

The thing is that you admit yourself that this is all so messy and complicated and morally subjective.

Maybe this is why the basic moral standard was set at *gasp* finding one partner and attempting to confine one's sexual activities to that one partner. It's better for you; it's better for them. It's better for society.

We reduce all the messy entanglements caused by the drama and the possible STDs and everything else.

Granted, many fall way short of that standard, but that's still no reason to give up. If you fail to reach your goal or fall short of it, does that still mean the struggle wasn't worth it if it helped avert even some of the problems?

No it is not worth it. While the idea of abstinence until marriage and monogamy are the best available model of safe sexual practices. Wrapping them up in a moral argument is wrong. Pretty much from the colonial days until today the US has had a love/hate relationship with sex. There never was a golden age of sexual "morality" in this country where a majority of the population actually waited until they were married. The only difference is now people are talking about sex instead of treating it as a dirty topic.

The US experienced a significant drop in STD infections following widespread use of antibiotics in the 1950's. Today they are on the rise and as of 2010 have returned back to around their previous infection rates. The truly astonishing fact is that those that keep making this a moral argument tend to live in conservative states, and that when it comes to sexually related matters they lead the country in most porn consumed,teen pregnancy, and STD infection rates.

I will end however by agreeing with you that Sex Education should emphasize abstinence and monogamy first, STD and pregnancy prevention second and not be teaching technique at all.

ketsuko
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

We spend more on our education per student than any other industrialized nation and yet we can't manage to have sex education? I don't think that's the problem. Especially not in these days when Kansas Middle Schools have posters up telling kids all the lovely ways people express sexual feelings including grinding and anal.

i'm calling BS on this statement....where are all these "posters" you are talking about?

#18 An astounding 30 percent of all Internet traffic now goes to adult websites.

so suddenly ALL internet traffic means America is solely responsible?

actually you know what? i'm gonna stop right there. this thread is incredibly irresponsible, and i feel even posting a thread about these so called "statistics" on this site, is also as such. so well done OP. have fun with the over exaggerated thingy you found on the internet thread. hope you get a bunch of flags for the shock value which is meaningless

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

if you don't believe those....then .... who is this "God" you speak of?

Exactly - and way to sidestep :-)

Let's see if we can come at this from another angle

In the post I was replying to, you said:

if those rights do not come from a higher power and morality does not either.....then it is left to humanity (humanism) ....which is where you come in.....you get to decide what peoples rights are and what is moral or immoral.....and so do I and so does everyone else....

And this:

if our rights didn't come from a higher power....then they were just granted by the Government....and if that's the case....then they can be taken by the Government..

the problem with your ilk is that you believe this and not only is the morality of the country going down but so are my GOD GIVEN rights....

so thanks....

for nothin'

If God decides what is and isn't moral, but it's all still left up to us, what difference does it make in the end what God believes, knows, or expects or wants? The difference between a universe with monkeys that believe in God and monkeys that don't seems pretty much like the same universe to me

So, when you say that your God given rights are being trampled upon - you're blaming everyone that doesn't adhere to God's law? People that don't behave according to God's law are ruining it for everyone else? So, we need for God to tell us how to behave because we aren't capable of knowing this on our own?

If human beings are not intrinsically moral creatures - then we're incapable of comprehending God's intentions or desires - much as a puppy doesn't understand why you're upset it chewed up your shoe. Puppy knows it doesn't like when you're upset - and it may eventually learn to not eat your shoes - but puppy will never truly understand the value you've placed on having shoes in the very first place

If humans are moral creatures inherently - then God isn't necessary for us to be moral

Either way - whatever decisions we make on this planet - the results being either desirable or not - we make them. We either make them as creatures without a sense of morality trying to please someone with morals - or we make them based on our own basic understanding of what is right and wrong - that we all agreed on together

Stalin was one seriously bad pup. Bernie Madoff? Yeah - him too. Interesting range of badness you got going on there, but, yeah - bad Bernie! Bad, bad Bernie!

:-)

reply to post by xuenchen


There are countries that are far more sexually liberal than the US, and their teen pregnancy and STD rates are way lower than ours.

Teen pregnancy is a problem here because of our sexual conservatism. I graduated high school in 2004, I remember clearly the sex talks we would get, both from the school and our parents. Both groups pushed abstinence as the only option for teen sexuality, and the majority of us laughed it off as a joke.

All of us went to great lengths to sneak around to have sex to make sure that the authority figures in our lives would not find out about our activities. In hindsight I can clearly see how so many girls from my high school wound up pregnant. When you're sneaking around, you're not really worried about protecting yourself, especially when a carelessly discarded condom leaves behind evidence of what you did.

In the US our collective attitude concerning sexuality is bordering on the edge of a deeply repressed psychosis. Sexual conservatism is unnatural and our culture stands as proof of that fact.

If you don't want teenagers to get pregnant, then let them have sex. Help keep the transmission of STD's low by taking an active interest in the health of your children. Encourage them to make good decisions to protect themselves when they have sex. If you tell them to abstain, they are just going to ignore you.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


so....if there is no God and we just evolved to this point.....why would we evolve morality when it tends to not benefit us.

stealing, raping, murdering......these all benefit the the one doing the act.....and who cares about the one having the act done to them.....they should have been stronger.

You brought up the puppy eating the shoe....well....lets just look at the entire animal kingdom....they kill the weakest....eat each other, "rape" if you will..... I have chickens...and believe me....my rooster isnt asking permission....he takes what he wants...

but we humans are different....we do know deep down that things are right and wrong.....where did this come from?

evolution would give us the opposite of that.....

and I am not trying to turn this into an evolution/creation thing.....but I am assuming you think we evolved to this point and I am just wondering where we picked up morality and why?

reply to post by KeliOnyx


Ok, I wasn't even necessarily talking about the STDs although they figure in.

Look, when you have sex, it really isn't that easy or even possible to do it now strings attached for the most part. It's a hormonal thing. Women tend to have oxytocin involved which causes a feeling of attachment to their partners. We can't help it.

It's part of nature's design. We want a man around to help us because we need some support through pregnancy and early child-rearing at least, ideally until the offspring are able to fend for themselves. It fosters a sense of bonding.

So, every time a woman has sex, she's creating a bit of drama for herself hormonally. Every time a man has sex with a woman, he's creating drama ... We hurt each other however unintentionally in a loose hook-up culture.

And that's before we get into how it's really all about us and therefore selfish which also leads to us hurting each other creating drama.

And that's all before we get into the question of STDs and unintended pregnancies with people we really had no intention of getting pregnant with ...

We are creating a lot of people who really aren't very happy for reasons they can't put their fingers on and who don't or aren't able to create a good bond with a lasting mate when they find one because of all the baggage they bring with them from before.

reply to post by ketsuko


And you completely ignored what was said. The fact of it is that regions of this country that vote family values, and treat sex as a taboo subject are also the same regions leading the country in porn consumption, teen pregnancies and STD's. The OP posted an article citing sexually related statistics as proof of declining morality. A position which is simply just untrue. People despite depictions in the media aren't having any more or less sex than they did before in or out of committed relationships. The only thing in this country that has changed is our willingness as a society to talk about it openly.

Is hookup culture a myth?

The US suffers socially when it comes to how we treat sex, alcohol and other controlled substances when compared to every other industrialized nation on the planet. We suffer because instead of acting like adults and talking openly about these things we decry them as immoral and tell the kiddies "You shouldn't do that because God says it is bad!". There are a multitude good solid reasons to put abstinence and monogamy in front of everything else without playing the God card. But it would be completely stupid to ignore the fact that young people are going to do what they want, when they want to do it. And they should be armed with the knowledge to do it safely.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

so....if there is no God and we just evolved to this point.....why would we evolve morality when it tends to not benefit us.

Community cooperation, community protection, nurturing, compassion, empathy… How does morality not benefit us?

stealing, raping, murdering......these all benefit the the one doing the act.....and who cares about the one having the act done to them.....they should have been stronger.

That’s a survival of the fittest argument that often seems to translate as might makes right. Fittest can also mean best suited to keeping the group happy, healthy, fed, safe and whole, motivated - productive…

evolution would give us the opposite of that.....

Why? Wolves cooperate. Ants cooperate. Many creatures are social creatures that have rules. The idea is to survive and reproduce and keep moving forward. How are people different - other than this need we seem to have to see ourselves as something special?

I’m not saying we’re not either - that would be dumb. But, chosen?

and I am not trying to turn this into an evolution/creation thing.....but I am assuming you think we evolved to this point and I am just wondering where we picked up morality and why?

Me neither - I’m not here to proselytize. I’m really not interested in talking people away from God. I love this subject, and I love mankind, so - there it is then. This whole subject has been argued much better than I can argue it here by people who can really argue. Not much up for it today even if I was better at it

But - that doesn’t matter. The reason I got into this thread is because there’s this idea that bad things happen to people that don’t behave according to the rules. There’s a really amazing perk waiting for those that comply with the rules, and a really good smack waiting for those that don’t. What’s more, somehow America is falling apart because we’ve lost our moral center and somehow America might fail because of sex…

Suggesting that we’re not capable of being moral without being instructed is illogical - and a giant leap of faith

yuk, yuk, yuk

:-)

Like I said - not really up for arguing or selling, but in case you're actually interested:
How does evolutionary theory explain altruism?
Psychological vs. Biological Altruism
A simple and general explanation for the evolution of altruism

No, it was sarcasm. Things in this country are getting CRAZY!!! Some people really believe other countries want to kill us because of our freedoms. And yes, that whole TERROR LEVEL thing was something right out of the book 1985. The part about the neighbor really is the propaganda that was aired on national tv, in public service announcements. I just dont know how else to explain some of the craziness here in the U.S. I mean for christs sake, people use the T.V. as a glorified babysitter. Get mad at teachers because kids are messing up in school, and sue restaurants because we spill hot coffee on ourselves. LMAO!!!! Sorry, my rant ends now. a reply to: projectbane

originally posted by: UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

so....if there is no God and we just evolved to this point.....why would we evolve morality when it tends to not benefit us.

stealing, raping, murdering......these all benefit the the one doing the act.....and who cares about the one having
the act done to them.....they should have been stronger.

Have you read the Bible? Stealing, raping and murdering are God's decree to mankind throughout the majority of the book. Judeo-religious subscription was a massive hindrance on the morality that we acknowledge today, and, actually, It gave people excuses to behave immorally for personal interest; they could just tell people it was God's will and it would be acceptable.

but we humans are different....we do know deep down that things are right and wrong.....where did this come from?

Just because something exists does not mean it was implemented with purpose. The fact that it exists is just evidence that it works in some way. If a lot of these morals and ethical standards weren't adopted, humanity wouldn't exist to be having this conversation. It really is that simple; no need to complicate it.

evolution would give us the opposite of that.....

What an incredibly asinine statement. I just can't even begin to describe the logic that someone would have to lack to actually believe something like that.

Arg but why take over practically the whole world just to bring it all down with u, rogue government? It's like headed for not just moral but species extinction on the planet.

(Clean slate for AI to rebuild)