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Aphorism
reply to post by neoholographic
How can physical objects be put into sequential arrangements without the laws of physics?
They are one and the same.
The underlying laws of physics? Not sensible objects?
You've lost me.
At first you said they're not fundamental truths and now they are fundamental truths and these laws are one with nature.
I'm not surprised. You don't seem to understand the difference between intelligible and sensible, you confuse cause and effect, and you think that something that requires a law to exist can be responsible for the creation of that law, which is a logical impossibility.
Ten of the naturally social fish were first trained inside their tank to associate a door permitting them to move into different compartments and join their larger group with a certain number of shapes.
The same fish were then tested several times in an otherwise empty, unfamiliar tank to see whether they would choose to swim through the door marked with the right number of shapes.
The results showed that the fish chose the correct door more often than by chance alone, said study lead author Christian Agrillo, a psychologist at the University of Padova in Italy.
Now they're imaginary laws? How can they be imaginary and also One and the same?
What are imaginary laws? Where's the evidence for these imaginary laws?
I would like to see a peer reviewed paper that shows that the laws of physics are imaginary.
How is the law of gravity imaginary?
How is Bohr's radius imaginary?
How is Planck's constant or the speed of light imaginary?
How can we make planes fly or cars drive if these laws are imaginary?
How do Physical bodies create the laws of physics without the laws of physics?
I have heard of Stephen Hawking and imaginary time.
I see you said you're not a materialist but you illustrate the clear problem for materialist. The laws of physics are in a sequential arrangement that gives us planets, stars, moons and comets. We couldn't have civilizations without these fundamental laws. People would just remain hot all summer without air conditioning without the laws of physics and Logos which puts matter in a sequential arrangement that gives us air conditioning systems.
How is the law of gravity imaginary?
How is Bohr's radius imaginary?
How is Planck's constant or the speed of light imaginary?
How can we make planes fly or cars drive if these laws are imaginary?
How do Physical bodies create the laws of physics without the laws of physics?
I think calling all of those things "inventions" is a little extreme. As you said before, they are "interpretations". Interpretations require a preexisting idea or material to be processed and translated. These preexisting ideas and materials are most certainly not the product of man.
These are the raw data that we study in order to establish a pattern by which to understand and predict the laws that influenced said data. That's not our invention. That's our analysis.
establishing patterns and predictions is our invention
They are imaginary in the sense that you are using them: as forces that govern, design and put into "sequential arraignment" (time to come up with a better buzz phrase I think) the physical pieces of the universe. Like I said earlier, it is the God idea reworded and exaggerated. The laws are not imaginary when they are seen as created by men to describe phenomena.
This makes absolutely no sense. At first I thought there was a real debate here but it's simply delusional to say the laws of physics are imaginary.
I think you have mixed up 2 different things and for some reason you got locked into this illogical stance that the laws of physics are imaginary.
There's a debate on weather math is objectively real and this goes back to Plato. There's has never been a debate to whether the laws of physics are real. That's just insane for lack of a better word.
Like I said, if you think the laws of physics are imaginary, jump off of a tall building and see how imaginary gravity is.
If you think the laws of physics are imaginary, show me a physical body that exceeds the speed of light.
If you think the laws of physics are imaginary how do you explain the electromagnetic spectrum.
If you think the laws of physics are imaginary, how can star formation or planet formation occur without the laws of physics?
What about the atomic mass constant or planck's constant? How are they imaginary?
I want you to show me a peer reviewed paper or a scientist that claims the laws of physics come from imagination.
You do know how science works? Bohr or Planck didn't just make things up from a daydream and viola they magically became the laws of physics. These things have to be tested and then agree with observation. Recently there was a discovery of gravitational waves. This observation was predicted by people like Alan Guth and Einstein. If replicated then it's observed phenomena (since you like that word) and there's nothing imaginary about it.
What about the strong nuclear force or the expansion rate of the universe?
Tell me how can you play a DVD if the laws of physics are imaginary? How can you have a DVD player if the laws of physics are imaginary?
How can we have GPS if time dilation is imaginary?
How can you eat food or take a walk if the laws of physics are imaginary?
It makes no sense.
A physical law or scientific law, according to the Oxford English dictionary, "is a theoretical principle deduced from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present."[1] Physical laws are typically conclusions based on repeated scientific experiments and observations over many years and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community.
theory |ˈTHēərē, ˈTHi(ə)rē|
noun (pl. theories)
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained: Darwin's theory of evolution.
• a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based: a theory of education | music theory.
• an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action: my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged.
• Mathematics a collection of propositions to illustrate the principles of a subject.
idea |īˈdēə|
noun
1 a thought or suggestion as to a possible course of action: they don't think it's a very good idea.
• a concept or mental impression: our menu list will give you some idea of how interesting a low-fat diet can be.
• an opinion or belief: nineteenth-century ideas about drinking.
2 (the idea) the aim or purpose: I took a job with the idea of getting some money together.
3 Philosophy (in Platonic thought) an eternally existing pattern of which individual things in any class are imperfect copies.
• (in Kantian thought) a concept of pure reason, not empirically based in experience.
imagination |iˌmajəˈnāSHən|
noun
the faculty or action of forming new ideas, or images or concepts of external objects not present to the senses: she'd never been blessed with a vivid imagination.
• the ability of the mind to be creative or resourceful: technology gives workers the chance to use their imagination.
• the part of the mind that imagines things: a girl who existed only in my imagination.
AfterInfinity
reply to post by Aphorism
I think calling all of those things "inventions" is a little extreme. As you said before, they are "interpretations". Interpretations require a preexisting idea or material to be processed and translated. These preexisting ideas and materials are most certainly not the product of man. These are the raw data that we study in order to establish a pattern by which to understand and predict the laws that influenced said data. That's not our invention. That's our analysis.
A physical law or scientific law, according to the Oxford English dictionary, "is a theoretical principle deduced from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present."[1] Physical laws are typically conclusions based on repeated scientific experiments and observations over many years and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community.