If Noah's society was technologically superior, what if aliens are merely the other flood survivors

schuyler
reply to post by edward777

 

Without devolving into the typical "Did Noah really exist" stuff, if you think these "other" survivors are mistaken for UFOs and aliens, where do they live? Noah's 7 billion contemporary descendants have pretty well populated the Earth (cough: I know, just don't go there this time.) with just what? a few people? Surely the "other survivors" were at least that, and very likely much more numbers, who would also tend to, umm, want to reproduce. So, particularly if they were technologically advanced, where are they? Flying around in UFOs is one thing, but surely they have to park to use the toilet, get some more gas, enjoy sunsets on the beach, perform financial transactions, and, you know, live like the rest of us when we are not in or vehicles.

Your scenario conveniently forgets this "other' population as a whole and where they might be.

Okay, so 12 thousand years or so they would just hang out with us? Think about all the alternatives including space.

Also, what if Noah's descendants are the bloodline families ancestor while others were people in less advanced regions who were living a primitive existence? The flood did not necessarily destroy all land masses.

ChaosEpsilon
The people who were washed away by the flood were the individuals that were intermixed with demons. Noah and his family were the only ones who were still made in the image of God, untainted by the breeding from the demons. So the ones who died weren't different in terms of ideology as much as they were different in their genetic makeup.

Ah incest approved by god so a bunch of inbreeds then, that's if you believe the fairy tale!

Ignoring all the other logical fallacies of the flood story in the Bible, how do we see so much diversity in humans if we are all descendants of Noah and the other 7 people on the ark?

According to the story, only Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives survived the flood and everyone else on earth was killed. If anyone can come up with at least a semi-possible theory, we'll move on to the next unbelievable portion of the tall tale.

edward777

Okay, so 12 thousand years or so they would just hang out with us? Think about all the alternatives including space.

Also, what if Noah's descendants are the bloodline families ancestor while others were people in less advanced regions who were living a primitive existence? The flood did not necessarily destroy all land masses.

Wait, now! You gotta go with the story here. The idea is that the "other" survivors are now mistaken for aliens. And your answer is that they hung out in space rather than on a planet in the Goldilocks zone? How fanciful!

But your SECOND statement! Oh, wow! The flood did not necessarily destroy all land masses? Hmm, your deviating from the official story here, but just what if it's EXACTLY what happened? 12,000 years ago Global Warming, caused not by humanity, but by the retreating Ice Age, melted the ice and caused a global flood event than inundated coastal civilizations, which was most of them since living there was so convenient, rose the sea level a few dozen feet, and left "people in less advanced regions who were living a primitive existence" to carry on, and we are descendants of them, and Noah, too, if he managed to pull it off.

Now that accounts nicely for the universality of the flood story. 12,000 years ago is pretty close to when the last Ice Age ended. And we know from archaeology that there are quite a few "stone steps" and structures just below the surface of the sea in places like India and Japan. And we know that all that huge polar ice cap water had to go somewhere. And given that we can dump the "every species two by two on the ark" scenario. So this may be a likely scenario for what actually happened.

No need for your aliens at all. You can dump them, too. They're just not necessary.

Answer
Ignoring all the other logical fallacies of the flood story in the Bible, how do we see so much diversity in humans if we are all descendants of Noah and the other 7 people on the ark?

According to the story, only Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives survived the flood and everyone else on earth was killed. If anyone can come up with at least a semi-possible theory, we'll move on to the next unbelievable portion of the tall tale.

If you think about it, there were clearly more people on Earth than Adam and Eve's descendants. The land of Nod (where Cain wound up) is just one example.

Everything after that, commandments, talks of "god's people", etc... that is all referencing a particular ethnicity and culture. For all we know, the flood only killed people in Adam and Eve's line. Obviously, there were others because, as you said, we are made up of several ethnic variations. All of humanity couldn't have come from Russel Crowe.

Cuervo


If you think about it, there were clearly more people on Earth than Adam and Eve's descendants. The land of Nod (where Cain wound up) is just one example.

According to the bible, only 8 people survived the flood.

The book is known for having a few plot holes, though...

13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch."

Apparently, there was a lot of important info left out of the book of Genesis.

reply to post by Cuervo


You mean Russ le Roq?

I don't have anything else to offer this thread, apart from there is certainly no evidence of 'Noah's society being technologically superior....

reply to post by edward777

Yet it is now mainstream science to suggest that people will use genetic enhancement and nano-technology to extend the lifespan hundreds of years if not longer.

Suggest maybe but actually achieve it ? ... not in our lifetime or generations of lifetimes , if Noah had existed (which he didn't) he certainly wouldn't have had access to nano-tech or any concept of genetic enhancement.

So if they preserved that technology then wouldn't they eventually have been regarded as gods by the ancients and today seen as aliens?

I'm also curious about this statement , why would anyone with technology be seen as Aliens today ? , is that just a way to get this into the A+U forum ?

jjkenobi
If in the distant past someone surviving a large flood didn't happen it's probably the greatest hoax in human history since every culture around the world has their own version of a similar story.

I personally believe the flood story but I fail to see how interjecting aliens into it makes it any more believable?

-Every culture DOESN'T have the flood story, that's Christian propaganda when they say everyone has the flood story. Lots of cultures have such a story because lots of cultures have flooding, so can conceive that a worldwide flood would be a huge disaster. If anything the hoax is that the biblical flood was recorded everywhere.

-common motifs and themes doesn't necessarily point towards a common history; it can just as easily point to common ideas within the human psyche.

-the physical evidence does not support the existence or possibility of a worldwide flood.

conundrummer
Every culture DOESN'T have the flood story, that's Christian propaganda when they say everyone has the flood story. Lots of cultures have such a story because lots of cultures have flooding, so can conceive that a worldwide flood would be a huge disaster. If anything the hoax is that the biblical flood was recorded everywhere.

Every culture doesn't, but lots do? Which is it? I don't think anyone has ever claimed EVERY culture, but the point is that enough do to call it a common theme in mythology. Although Christians may point to this as "proof" of THEIR myth, the fact is that they still exist and have been reported not just by Christians, but by anthropologists and folklorists worldwide. Christians may seek to claim it, but other cultures can also assert their right to say that Noah was simply a local variation from a small desert tribe of no consequence.

Apologists will claim that the majority of ancient cultures were near the sea and rivers, and that rivers flood, therefore that is the origin of the ubiquitous "Flood myth."

the physical evidence does not support the existence or possibility of a worldwide flood.

Well, it does, actually. You can go diving in the Sea of Japan and find structures with steps that look like ancient stone buildings. These are not just "cracks in the rock" but equally spaced stone steps. You can do the same thing off the east coast of India, and there are some intriguing finds off the east coast of North America as well. Interestingly, most of the places where significant finds have been made are nowhere near traditional "Christian" territory. They are associated, at least physically, with cultures that never heard of Christianity until fairly modern missionaries showed up.

It's difficult to dive below 100 feet without specialized equipment, but you don't really have to. The "flood" likely amounted to not much more than this anyway. A rise in sea level of 80-100 feet would have effectively flooded most any seacoast civilization completely and as far as the residents were concerned, that qualified as a "worldwide flood" in their eyes.

I'm not trying to prove Noah nor support Christianity, mind you. I believe Noah, the person, and the details of the story, including the ark itself, to be details added for the benefit of the story. there was no ark full of animals two by two. If a "Noah-like" man existed, he grabbed a few goats and chickens and ran for the nearest big boat as the sea began to rise.

But the idea that global warming at the end of the last ice age 12-14,000 years ago melted an ice dam surrounding Hudson Bay and released trillions of gallons of water into the oceans in a few hours, thus flooding the coasts, makes sense to me. This is the same thing that happened with Lake Missoula in Canada, the resulting flood from which carved out eastern Washington as the water headed down the Columbia River Valley toward the Pacific, something completely accepted by science today. Hudson Bay was just a bit bigger, is all, and is the source for the flood stories.

Makes a lot more sense than "God did it."

Every culture doesn't, but lots do? Which is it?

The two are not mutually exclusive.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed EVERY culture, but the point is that enough do to call it a common theme in mythology.

The quoe I was quoting said "every culture around the world".

Although Christians may point to this as "proof" of THEIR myth, the fact is that they still exist and have been reported not just by Christians, but by anthropologists and folklorists worldwide. Christians may seek to claim it, but other cultures can also assert their right to say that Noah was simply a local variation from a small desert tribe of no consequence.

Folklorists and anthropologists don't automatically attribute myth as reality though.

Apologists will claim that the majority of ancient cultures were near the sea and rivers, and that rivers flood, therefore that is the origin of the ubiquitous "Flood myth."

Reasonable.

Well, it does, actually. You can go diving in the Sea of Japan and find structures with steps that look like ancient stone buildings. These are not just "cracks in the rock" but equally spaced stone steps. You can do the same thing off the east coast of India, and there are some intriguing finds off the east coast of North America as well. Interestingly, most of the places where significant finds have been made are nowhere near traditional "Christian" territory. They are associated, at least physically, with cultures that never heard of Christianity until fairly modern missionaries showed up.

It's difficult to dive below 100 feet without specialized equipment, but you don't really have to. The "flood" likely amounted to not much more than this anyway. A rise in sea level of 80-100 feet would have effectively flooded most any seacoast civilization completely and as far as the residents were concerned, that qualified as a "worldwide flood" in their eyes.

I'm not trying to prove Noah nor support Christianity, mind you. I believe Noah, the person, and the details of the story, including the ark itself, to be details added for the benefit of the story. there was no ark full of animals two by two. If a "Noah-like" man existed, he grabbed a few goats and chickens and ran for the nearest big boat as the sea began to rise.

But the idea that global warming at the end of the last ice age 12-14,000 years ago melted an ice dam surrounding Hudson Bay and released trillions of gallons of water into the oceans in a few hours, thus flooding the coasts, makes sense to me. This is the same thing that happened with Lake Missoula in Canada, the resulting flood from which carved out eastern Washington as the water headed down the Columbia River Valley toward the Pacific, something completely accepted by science today. Hudson Bay was just a bit bigger, is all, and is the source for the flood stories.

Makes a lot more sense than "God did it."

edit on 3/26/2014 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

I don't doubt that the past had plenty of large floods, but I very much doubt the notion that there was a flood that could cover the ENTIRE WORLD as in thy myths. Rising coastlines wiping out coastal communities? Absolutely. Underwater archaeology is certainly an interesting field with plenty of sites, and from a local perspective such an event would certainly appear to be a worldwide flood (the world being, from their perspective, everything that extends for a few dozen miles from their homeland).

IMHO, the Japanese "steps" are debatable as human constructs. However, there are certainly places in mainstream archaeology that point to ancient communities now submerged under saltwater.

reply to post by edward777


There are times I wonder if we are living in a paradox, where we are advancing into the past and becoming less intelligent as we do.

We look into our "past" and see things that we cannot understand, let alone explain. Its almost like the "ancient" people of our "past" managed to create a utopia. Living in a manner where they are a part of the land and not something separate from it.

Less complicated... more intelligent in some areas (granted depends on who you ask / what you believe). We have a habit of seeing civilizations ultimate destination being among the stars.

It seems our ancient relatives on this planet reached a level of "oneness" with themselves and the universe, making them the pinnacle of human civilization.

Anyways.. just a thought I wanted to throw out there.

reply to post by schuyler

Since they have found all D.N.A of the world population came from less than 10 people it proves that a catastrophic event wiped out the world ....except for the ark .even more, The evidence suggests there was higher pressure,more oxygen promoting life in a type of protection from terrestrial radiation , causing the blood plasma to take on oxygen allowing men to live 900+ years.

Some of you think it was just a myth but you really dont have a clue, because you DONT WANT IT TO BE TRUE BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE TO RE-EXAMINE YOUR LIVES.

edward777
If it took Noah over 150 years to build the ark then certainly there had to be people who understood that what he was predicting was true, although they may have held to a different ideological framework than Noah. So if they preserved that technology then wouldn't they eventually have been regarded as gods by the ancients and today seen as aliens? I think this may be more plausible than the theories that aliens have been visiting for the extent of human history.

The idea that Noah took 120 years to build the ark is a myth (the myth is that it took 120 years, not "over 150 years" as you stated) which stems from this verse:

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

Instead of this verse being a reference to the amount of time left before the flood as some people suppose, this verse is most likely a reference to the upper life expectancy of man being reduced to about 120 years, rather than the upper lifespans of nearly 1000 years at the time, which is what actually happened according to the Bible:

Noah died 350 years after the Flood, at the age of 950,[4] the last of the extremely long-lived antediluvian Patriarchs. The maximum human lifespan, as depicted by the Bible, diminishes rapidly thereafter, from almost 1,000 years to the 120 years of Moses.

Source

When God was instructing Noah to build the ark, he already had his three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and those sons had wives:

Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
Gen 6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
Gen 6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Gen 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

Noah was 500 years old when he had his 3 sons:

Gen 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Noah was 600 years old during the flood:

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

That alone establishes that it couldn't have been more than 100 years, and the fact that God mentioned Noah's sons' wives while he was telling him how to build the ark, reduces the time even more. According to the Bible, those antediluvian fellows tended to take quite a while to get married or have kids. This will give an idea:

Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Gen 5:6 And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begot Enos:
Gen 5:7 And Seth lived after he begot Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
Gen 5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begot Cainan:
Gen 5:10 And Enos lived after he begot Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
Gen 5:12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalaleel:
Gen 5:13 And Cainan lived after he begot Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
Gen 5:15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begot Jared:
Gen 5:16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begot Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
Gen 5:18 And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and he begot Enoch:
Gen 5:19 And Jared lived after he begot Enoch eight hundred years, and begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
Gen 5:21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begot Methuselah:
Gen 5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begot Methuselah three hundred years, and begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Gen 5:25 And Methuselah lived a hundred eighty and seven years, and begot Lamech:
Gen 5:26 And Methuselah lived after he begot Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
Gen 5:28 And Lamech lived a hundred eighty and two years, and begot a son:
Gen 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
Gen 5:30 And Lamech lived after he begot Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begot sons and daughters:
Gen 5:31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
Gen 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Some of them started having kids when they were young whippersnappers in their 60s, others were around 100 years old, and others were hundreds of years old. I'm making the reasonable assumption that they started having kids not long after they got married, but I suppose it's possible they got married when they were ~20 and then waited decades or centuries before having kids.

In any event, the time frame to build the ark was say, ~80 years at the most, and probably closer to just a few/several years.

supergravity
reply to post by schuyler

 

Since they have found all D.N.A of the world population came from less than 10 people it proves that a catastrophic event wiped out the world ....except for the ark.

Sounds like a non-sequiter to me. Without a catastrophic event humanity would still arise from a small population, cause large populations come from smaller ones. Before there was 100 people, there was 50.

even more, The evidence suggests there was higher pressure,more oxygen promoting life in a type of protection from terrestrial radiation , causing the blood plasma to take on oxygen allowing men to live 900+ years.

Can you cite a single scientific source on this that's not funded by religion? That statement is so many kinds of wrong I'm not sure which field to address its wrongness from. History? Biology? Climatology? Anatomy and physiology?

Some of you think it was just a myth but you really dont have a clue, because you DONT WANT IT TO BE TRUE BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE TO RE-EXAMINE YOUR LIVES.

You seem to take biblical pseudoscience as truth because otherwise you'd have to re-examine your life.

supergravity
They were told not to bring any technology to the new world, but they did.

Not even boat-building technology, or the ability to make fire?

I can't believe I am reading this thread!

reply to post by conundrummer


You must not have heard of a hyperbolic chamber that cures disease's many times faster at higher pressure, You must not know that plants grow faster under pressure, you must not know they found cavities in polar ice that shows more oxygen and co2 and higher pressure.This world is drastically different than it was. It seems you dont get out much.

reply to post by edward777


What if the ark...wasn't a water craft, but a space craft / satellite or DUMB?

And to push it further, what if the people from pre-flood eras were indeed technologically superior to our current levels?

If that thought can be taken as being correct, it is a very easy concept to grasp that animals, plant life and humans were not actually taken aboard a ship, but rather samples of their DNA were instead.

Using DNA instead of the living breathing animal, the genetic blueprints of our entire population of our planet could conceivably fit into something the size of a suitcase!

A reasonably small contingent of people, specialists in genetics, engineers, soldiers and people with other required skill-sets would board 'the ark', enter suspended animation to await a period when the planet was healed, and emerge to recreate life on the planet.

ET's and UFO's may not actually be ETs..they may be the social and scientific elite and their preserved craft who made it into protective habitats to emerge 1000's of years later...we may be the descendants of the lucky few who against the odds, managed to ride out the catastrophy that sent the elites into space /underground / undersea bases.

Noah was supposed to have a very long lifespan, like many people of the time were said to...this would tie in with a superior technological and scientific knowledge, the 'ET' genetic interest reported during abduction experimentations would also tie in with advanced genetic knowledge.

Who knows...such a scenario may also explain pretty much most of the other great mysteries currently puzzling us all, from Atlantis to astonishing mega-mega-lithic structures, to Ooparts to UFO's of course.

my view on noah's ark

1 it didn't happen on this planet
2 the ark was a space ship.
3 whilst the dimensions of the ship are known the size must be correct
4 using 3 as base it would be to small for all life forms 1 female 1 male
5 only way to correct 4 and have it fit as state in point 3 is Dna database
6 the flood was not a flood in the sense we see it , it was a space based flood.
7 he got to know time ect when and he build the space ship
8 mass CME or other space based event occurred and he fled the planet.
9 they traveled through space for the time stated in the bible
10 they have send out several drones/probes to find habitable planet
11 one of the probes found a planet and took samples
12 probe arrives back at the ship noah or ship automatic system diverse ship to planet
13 planet lands on ship
14 uses technology on ship to re-animate life from the dna in the database
15 noah repopulates the planet by mingling with local life forms
16 due to stronger dna of the population of noah's family due to further evolution local population changes
17 our ancestors where mingling of Neanderthals and Noah's family making them the missing link
18 due to the mingling only the mixed species survive and original neandertals die out
19 stories in are spread for years by mouth and with tech and culture decline people change stories over years
20 after thousands of years the original story has changed so much and it was written down on paper
21 the stories where written down with the knowledge of that time.
22 that time knowledge of space travel and ships where lost so they used tech of that time to describe the story.

rest I let to your imagination

MysterX
reply to post by edward777

 

ET's and UFO's may not actually be ETs..they may be the social and scientific elite and their preserved craft who made it into protective habitats to emerge 1000's of years later...we may be the descendants of the lucky few who against the odds, managed to ride out the catastrophy that sent the elites into space /underground / undersea bases.

edit on 5-4-2014 by MysterX because: (no reason given)

Do you realize that there actually is a very well-documented society of ancient elites that precisely matches the conditions you give in the above paragraph?

I am speaking of the "Kshatriya caste" of elitist warriors and kings who ruled over all of ancient India.

Text after Vedic text describe wars with their aerial cars called "Vimanas" and describe weapons that bear an alarming similarity to modern-day nukes as well as possibly even scalar weapons. These texts are quite detailed, so much so in fact that the modern day militaries and space programs of several nations are scrutinizing those texts with a fine-toothed comb. For real, folks.

Furthermore, as someone who has spent a few years trying to wade through those texts as well, I can state with reasonable assurance that the Vimana driving kings and warriors of antiquity are not spoken of as if they were ETs. In fact their lineages are described in no small detail, and those lineages are the same for most people living in India today. India's thoroughly human haplo-groups have been thoroughly documented and everybody there seems to be just as human as you and I are.

Furthermore, there IS an additional element of mystery that suggests that c. 270 BCE, India's high-tech programs went underground & formed a government condoned "secret society" that by all known standards of today would definitely qualify as a "Black Ops Project." I kid you not.

The society in question is called "The Nine Unknown Men" and refers to edicts laid down by Emperor Asoka (also spelled Ashoka), who was indeed an established historical character.

"According to the legend, upon his conversion to Buddhism after a massacre during one of his wars, the Emperor founded the society of the Nine to preserve and develop knowledge that would be dangerous to humanity if it fell into the wrong hands.

The Nine were also charged by Asoka with manipulating the culture of India to present an image of a backwards and mystically-oriented people to the outside world in order to conceal the advanced scientific knowledge that was being accumulated within.

Some versions of the story include an additional motivation for the Emperor to conceal scientific knowledge: remnants of the Rama Empire, an Indian version of Atlantis, which according to Hindu scripture was destroyed by advanced weaponry 15000 years ago."

You can read the whole article here:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

The particular article I'm quoting was written by David Hatcher Childress, who in my opinion isn't exactly the most credible author, but you will find many articles about the Nine Unknown Men all over the Internet. I first heard about them years ago when I read the book "Morning of the Magicians" by Louis Pauwels and Jacques Bergier which was published in 1960

I've been researching "The Nine" for many years now. The tale is surrounded by the mythical mysticism and religious hyperbole that India is ever famous for, which is actually a very effective way of hiding truth in plain sight.