I hate tipping!!

reply to post by InvisibleOwl


You were taking over a table that she could have been making money on!!

If you want to watch the fight go to a BAR not a restaurant.

I use to go to a local pub to watch the game and they charged people $5 each because of people like you who water to sit there for hours after they were done. That girl could have made more money if you weren't taking over her table. I'd have given you a dirty look too.


As for tipping i have no problem with it. I worked in a job where my SOLE income was tips. I didn't get paid an hourly wage at all my money was based on tips!

When I go out to eat I know they think I won't tip anything but they are always surprised at how much I tip. I tip 50% at a minimum. If i get excellent service I will leave more. I don't eat out much so when I do I like to take care of the person waiting on me.

reply to post by finitydream


I am aware of this. Like I said in my OP, my sister is a server. And I would not even tip her if she did not earn it. I also know the cover goes to the bar. My point about that was that we were welcome by the manager to sit for the last hour without purchasing more because of the cover; that's what it is for.

If I was starting a job and my boss said "OK, I'm not gonna pay you more than $2.13 an hour, because the customers should pay your wage, so you best hussle," I would walk out the door. Employers have a convenient scam for not paying proper wages, and servers take it out on customers who refuse to supplement their wages. That's not my problem. We have all worked difficult jobs, often for crappy wages, and we generally do not get tips/bonuses for showing up. So if I refuse to pay someone extra for doing their job (nobody forced them to take the job), that means I should stay at home?

reply to post by boncho


To you great service means coming to the table every 5 minutes when the server can clearly see you are eating and chatting with your friend? I don't like being interrupted every 5 minutes; call me crazy. If I said the food is fine, then the server comes back 5 minutes later, what would change?

reply to post by DarksideOz


So threats and extortion are acceptable? Tampering with a customer's food gets a server fired and should get him/her arrested. Threatening to make me sick if I refuse to pay what a server thinks he/she is worth (but refuses to work that way) is acceptable? Is this bizarro land?

reply to post by Destinyone


Not slanted at all. It's what happened. We were willing to forgive her fishing expedition, but her refusal to do her job (take our money) at the end of the night killed it. Try not doing your job for an hour or two, and see what your boss thinks.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I would visit that pub every weekend. The problem with tipping culture is that people EXPECT it without EARNING it. To a certain extent I can understand it with servers (although in many other countries tips are frowned up if not outright refused).

What gets me even more upset is cab drivers expecting tips. What hogwash! Tip you for doing the job I just paid you to do? *shakes his head

reply to post by mOjOm


OK, it seems you and several other posters do not understand ... picture yourself in a restaurant ... you have given your order and food has arrived ... server comes by to check on you and you thank her and compliment the food ... 5 minutes later she repeats the performance ... 5 minutes later she repeats the performance ... and so on ... until finally she realizes you are not planning to order more food and she then decides to take the bill to everyone around you (as the restaurant is closing) and forgets to give you your bill ... this is somehow acceptable? Note that neither my brother nor I were rude each time she came to our table. We simply smiled and said we were fine. If we had told her to leave us the F alone, I could completely understand. We did not. We were just done and exercising our right (as we had paid the cover) to stay for the last hour.

And as I said, her constant fluttering would be OK (I understand why she did it), but her refusal to do her job and take payment is not acceptable. I am against tipping in general, but I do tip when it is earned (and it's hard for a server to not earn it really).

My broader point with this thread is that it should not be up to the customer to pay the wage of the employee. The excuse that it is a hard job is rather feeble. I am actually on the side of servers; they should be paid a proper wage, as every employee in other jobs is.

reply to post by InvisibleOwl


I am with you on that last point: it shouldn't be up to the customer to pay employee wages. The fault there, for the most part, lies with the government. They see a tip as income, and want to tax it. Twice (income tax and payroll tax). The new 'large parties gratuity" law that just went into effect can add in another layer of taxation (sales and use tax) on that tip (as they must call it something other than tip, which makes it a s/u taxable item). But once the tip was considered "income", and a minimum wage law was passed....

You know what that'll do to your dining options? Mathematically, consider that whatever the food sales are, you will see around 20% of that value in employee tips. On top of that, another 15% in beverage sales for tips.

Lets just round it off to an even 10k per pay period. If you pay every 2 weeks, that is 26 pay periods in a month. or $260,000 a year in payroll costs for the employer (those numbers are very reasonable, very conservative for most restaurants. Those costs will be gathered from somewhere. Either less quality, or higher price points. Or a combination of the two. Maybe reduction in staff, to control labor costs Less money spent on culinary talent so that front of house service doesn't suffer. Etc, etc....sacrifices will be made, because in an industry with margins in the range of 18%, there is no way an owner can absorb an additional quarter million in annual labor costs.

InvisibleOwl
reply to post by boncho

 

To you great service means coming to the table every 5 minutes when the server can clearly see you are eating and chatting with your friend? I don't like being interrupted every 5 minutes; call me crazy. If I said the food is fine, then the server comes back 5 minutes later, what would change?

You might need a drink refilled. You might want to order something else. You might have run out of ketchup, sauce or salt. Dozens of things.

If I get asked I politely say thank you. Because I am thankful. On account of the times I've wanted something and had to wait, I'd much rather say, "I'm fine thank you" 5+ times during my meal.

reply to post by InvisibleOwl


You don't understand: you camped at a table and stopped her earnings for the night. Its a restaurant, not a sports bar.

And then just sat there drinking water/coffee for an entire turn, when another family could have been seated. Your viewpoint has only one problem: you are only considering it from your own angle. You lack empathy and understanding of others. She got screwed over financially.

Tipping is not really a thing in many other countries and certainly not in the UK.
If I go a nice restaurant or place that actually leaves you a bill, then I may well tip... but many places you pay for your food and drinks up front at the counter so tipping doesn't come into it.

We have a minimum wage and many people are struggling and work in jobs where they don't get tips.


It really is more of an American thing I think

I hate the expectation factor, i mean a tip is mean to be a generous donation, if its expected it takes all the pleasure out of doing it.

reply to post by InvisibleOwl


I bet you are lots of fun at parties. Have you ever been called socially awkward, or do your friends hold that back until you leave?

It's obvious you have never worked for tips ever in your lifetime. You should try it for 6 months

InvisibleOwl


My broader point with this thread is that it should not be up to the customer to pay the wage of the employee. The excuse that it is a hard job is rather feeble. I am actually on the side of servers; they should be paid a proper wage, as every employee in other jobs is.

You pay the wage of employees every time you pay for anything at any business, unless you think payroll just magically appears out of thin air. I bartended for 15 years until I started 2 of my own businesses, I made exponentially more working for tips than I wouldve working for a set wage.

Lets use your hypothetical of "paying servers a proper wage". Prices would necessarily increase by quite a large amount, and as prices rise, demand drops. Then people like you would whine that restaurants are too expensive to go so you wouldnt grace them with your presence and bright ray of sunshine personality.

The restaurant industry is extremely competitive, and runs on low margins. An increase in labor cost and a smaller number of customers due to higher prices is a recipe for going out of business.

Next up, you whine about tipping cab drivers, again proving you know very little about an industry you choose to complain about. In most places, cabs are run in 1 of 2 ways: The meter fee goes to the company and drivers live on tips alone, or drivers pay to rent the car and necessary cab license, so therefore they pay to go to work. Same as hairdressers, strippers, etc etc.

You are perfectly free to not use taxis, and to not patronize strip clubs or restaurants.

One other thing you obviously do not know is that servers are taxed on sales. If you do not tip, the server still gets taxed, so the server is actually paying to serve you and people like you. The last place I worked, I got hit for 8%. So if some jackasses ran up a $100 bar tab and didnt tip, I actually paid $8 to serve them.

Seriously, go work a tipped job for a few months, then report back. Unless you are one of those people who just like to whine about things you know nothing about.

a reply to: doubletap

Forgot about my own thread!!



And the person I am replying to is gone, but I will reply anyway. Yes I am full aware of how hairdressers get paid; hourly wage. Yes I am fully aware of how cab drivers get paid; % of the fares, though they lease their cars. So? Does that mean that I must pay them more than the agreed upon rate? How insane is that?

a reply to: captaintyinknots

I'm really not contradicting myself. I will say it again, line by line.

1. We sit down and waitress takes our drink order.

2. Waitress brings drinks and takes food order.

3. Waitress brings food and checks on drinks.

4. Waitress comes back to ask how the food is and checks drinks again.

Note: At this point the waitress was fantastic. She did her job and did it well. She was going to get a decent tip (even though it is not my responsibility to pay her wage).

5. Waitress comes back 5 minutes later to check our drinks. We tell her we are fine with our drinks

6. Waitress comes back to clear our plates and checks on our drinks. We get fresh drinks.

7. Waitress comes back 5 minutes later to check on our drinks.

8. Waitress comes back 5 minutes later to check on our drinks.

9. Waitress comes back 5 minutes later to check on our drinks. How fast does she want us to pound our alcoholic drinks?

10. Waitress comes back 5 minutes later to check on our drinks. We order fresh drinks.

11. Repeat steps 7-9 at least 5 more times. Are you honestly saying you would not be annoyed at your conversation being interrupted this many times? Any good server I have had walked by to see if we need new drinks.

12. Waitress finally gets that she is annoying us and stops asking us for drink orders. Hooray!!

13. Waitress walks around to every table around us TO COLLECT PAYMENT FOR BILLS.

Note: I was not annoyed that she avoided us, as we were not ordering. We were attempting to pay her AND GIVE HER A TIP. At this point she still had a tip coming to her. She lost it (except for my brother being too nice to leave her nothing) when she decided she would completely stop doing her job and not collect money for her boss.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I do see your point about turning tables, and I would generally never sit at a table for an hour without ordering anything. What makes this situation different is the fact that it was a PPV event. NO tables were being turned. Everyone there was there for the event. If that bothers her she could take it up with her boss. Seeing as that bar shows every UFC event there is her boss is clearly making money. I understand that PPV events cost bars, but again, if it was not making the bar money, they would not keep doing it. The cover charge is ONLY charged on UFC nights at this bar. Obviously that is to cover "camping" and to pay for the license.

As far as the "harassment" it was only when she was obviously fishing for tips (I know you know what I am talking about. "Pretty" waitresses at bars do this all the time). She still had a tip coming, but that changed when she refused to let us pay our bill.

a reply to: mblahnikluver

I suspect you did not read my OP carefully, so I will repeat. It WAS a bar, and we DID pay a cover charge. The bar owner knows that people will be sitting there for 3 hours and not all will be eating greasy food or getting sloshed all night. And as I said in an earlier post, the staff all know us. The doorman even grabs us our favourite table. Does not sound like the other staff/owners have any issue with us. They make a good amount from us since we go to every UFC event that is on PPV.

This thread has gone in a direction I did not expect, although I steered it there myself.

First is the issue with servers fishing for tips and then not doing their jobs when it works. This never happens to me in restaurants, only in bars. It used to work when I was 20 and horny. Not anymore

Second is the concept of tipping at all. As I and other posters have pointed out, in some countries tipping is frowned upon or even taken as an insult. My Korean friend tried to tip his cab driver when he went home after being in Canada for 3 years; the cab driver yelled at him that he did not need pity/charity. Hurrah!! Someone doing their job because it is HIS JOB!! On my trip to Taiwan, not 1 server, doorman, cab driver took a tip, even when I tried to give it.

Now if they can do the job for the wage/rate they agreed to and the restaurants are not bankrupt, why do we accept this in North America? At what point did we as consumers decide that certain occupations deserve extra money for doing what they are already paid to do? At what point did business owners realize they can scam their employees out of proper wages? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?