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False Feminism?
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False Feminism
The feminist movement is about women having equal rights, okay, and of course, so they should. We should all be equal and feel loved and respected for being so.
However, I wonder - and I don’t begrudge women at all for wanting such equality - why do women want to be equal with men who are obviously so wrong, misguided, and way out there in their ego domination and mind control.
Are women really happy to accept being equal with men in their wrongness, so being just as wrong as men are?
And so wouldn’t a more true feminism be one in which women look to healing their wrongness altogether, not even bothering to compete with men in theirs. To head off down a completely different track, looking to liberate all the feelings they are suppressing and have to keep repressed all so as to be equal with men in their feeling suppression.
So is the so-called feminist movement, just another part of the overall ploy to keep both men and women living untrue to themselves - untrue to their feelings?
Being a man, I was heavily deluded with my own self-importance and feeling denial. I needed a women to point this out to me, a woman who was intent on living true to herself ending all her feeling denial. And a woman whom I would say is working to truly liberate herself.
What do you feel about feminism? Is it heading in the right direction?
The feminist movement is about women having equal rights, okay, and of course, so they should. We should all be equal and feel loved and respected for being so.
However, I wonder - and I don’t begrudge women at all for wanting such equality - why do women want to be equal with men who are obviously so wrong, misguided, and way out there in their ego domination and mind control.
Are women really happy to accept being equal with men in their wrongness, so being just as wrong as men are?
And so wouldn’t a more true feminism be one in which women look to healing their wrongness altogether, not even bothering to compete with men in theirs. To head off down a completely different track, looking to liberate all the feelings they are suppressing and have to keep repressed all so as to be equal with men in their feeling suppression.
So is the so-called feminist movement, just another part of the overall ploy to keep both men and women living untrue to themselves - untrue to their feelings?
Being a man, I was heavily deluded with my own self-importance and feeling denial. I needed a women to point this out to me, a woman who was intent on living true to herself ending all her feeling denial. And a woman whom I would say is working to truly liberate herself.
What do you feel about feminism? Is it heading in the right direction?
edit on 24-3-2014 by zuimon because: (no reason given)
reply to post by zuimon
Feminazis are crazy. Saying one gender, be it from a misogynistic male or female (or male?) feminazi, should be above the another is not going to get us, as humans(remember, that's we all are?) anywhere. Anything else is just dividing people for no reason.
We are all equal.
Feminazis are crazy. Saying one gender, be it from a misogynistic male or female (or male?) feminazi, should be above the another is not going to get us, as humans(remember, that's we all are?) anywhere. Anything else is just dividing people for no reason.
We are all equal.
reply to post by zuimon
I'm not sure what feminist movement you have been reading over (I am interested) but that is a good point, and there is a whole different feminist movement that is rather popular that does pretty much exactly what you are saying.
Metrosexual men are even somewhat related, in my opinion, to the other feminist movement you didn't mention. It is pretty big. I admit that in some parts of the country men still get their way through force, yelling and resource shorting (and other destructive methods including corruption) instead of intellect and conversation, but it is considered archaic.
What is basically going on is that a man, or a woman, or whomever, but traditionally thought of as a man, isn't smart enough to figure out how to do something as good as someone else, so he (or she) feels threatened, and lashes out and puts up control mechanisms to simplify things and keep people from learning too much about life.
I had a female math teacher like that once, actually. I bring this up on purpose to address points about how "feminism" being female-only is by definition sexist, so I want to show an example of a male chauvinistic female - She got very angry at people who figured out alternative ways to solve her math problems and gave them F's on their assignments or tests even if they got the right answer.
Later on, I tutored for the kids in her class, and they were getting all the answers right but weren't conforming to her insane and specific methods - anyway, I put in a rough word to the administration about it. No use teaching kids how to be stupid.
So in reality, there are many differences between feminism and, well, traditionalism that have nothing to do with gender (in its purest form, at least) - in fact, it is the more simplistic feminist branches that simplify it to women power.
A more experienced feminist would be able to identify feminist or non-feminist traits in either males or females, and in society as a whole. The philosophy can get pretty complicated and even seem threatening in certain areas where it isn't -
I'm not sure what feminist movement you have been reading over (I am interested) but that is a good point, and there is a whole different feminist movement that is rather popular that does pretty much exactly what you are saying.
Metrosexual men are even somewhat related, in my opinion, to the other feminist movement you didn't mention. It is pretty big. I admit that in some parts of the country men still get their way through force, yelling and resource shorting (and other destructive methods including corruption) instead of intellect and conversation, but it is considered archaic.
What is basically going on is that a man, or a woman, or whomever, but traditionally thought of as a man, isn't smart enough to figure out how to do something as good as someone else, so he (or she) feels threatened, and lashes out and puts up control mechanisms to simplify things and keep people from learning too much about life.
I had a female math teacher like that once, actually. I bring this up on purpose to address points about how "feminism" being female-only is by definition sexist, so I want to show an example of a male chauvinistic female - She got very angry at people who figured out alternative ways to solve her math problems and gave them F's on their assignments or tests even if they got the right answer.
Later on, I tutored for the kids in her class, and they were getting all the answers right but weren't conforming to her insane and specific methods - anyway, I put in a rough word to the administration about it. No use teaching kids how to be stupid.
So in reality, there are many differences between feminism and, well, traditionalism that have nothing to do with gender (in its purest form, at least) - in fact, it is the more simplistic feminist branches that simplify it to women power.
A more experienced feminist would be able to identify feminist or non-feminist traits in either males or females, and in society as a whole. The philosophy can get pretty complicated and even seem threatening in certain areas where it isn't -
edit on 24pmMon, 24 Mar 2014 19:50:40
-0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)
kx12x
reply to post by zuimon
Feminazis are crazy. Saying one gender, be it from a misogynistic male or female (or male?) feminazi, should be above the another is not going to get us, as humans(remember, that's we all are?) anywhere. Anything else is just dividing people for no reason.
We are all equal.
See, I have to agree with you a bit here. I have met some girls who use feminism to promote pretty much the exact thing they are trying to take down, which is the idea of using their gender to get their way by bullying.
Good thoughts by the O.P. so I starred and flagged it, I am glad he or she is thinking.
edit on 24pmMon, 24 Mar 2014 19:53:05
-0500kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)
zuimon
False Feminism
The feminist movement is about women having equal rights, okay, and of course, so they should. We should all be equal and feel loved and respected for being so.
However, I wonder - and I don’t begrudge women at all for wanting such equality - why do women want to be equal with men who are obviously so wrong, misguided, and way out there in their ego domination and mind control.
Are women really happy to accept being equal with men in their wrongness, so being just as wrong as men are?
And so wouldn’t a more true feminism be one in which women look to healing their wrongness altogether, not even bothering to compete with men in theirs. To head off down a completely different track, looking to liberate all the feelings they are suppressing and have to keep repressed all so as to be equal with men in their feeling suppression.
So is the so-called feminist movement, just another part of the overall ploy to keep both men and women living untrue to themselves - untrue to their feelings?
Being a man, I was heavily deluded with my own self-importance and feeling denial. I needed a women to point this out to me, a woman who was intent on living true to herself ending all her feeling denial. And a woman whom I would say is working to truly liberate herself.
What do you feel about feminism? Is it heading in the right direction?edit on 24-3-2014 by zuimon because: (no reason given)
The 'feminist movement' isn't that easily defined.
There is the first segment which began in the 19th century which was the Suffrage movement; women's right to vote. Then the second segment was the Women's Liberation Movement, which wanted to address woman's legal and social equality. The third segment was the need to address the failures of the second movement. The feminism going on now is a little frightening, and I really don't know what the hell it is.
There is also Post-Feminism or those who think, there is no need for an actual feminist movement today as women are equal as they have never been before in society, and there is balance.
In essence, the feminist movement itself is as splintered in factions as the politics of the North of Ireland! So I'm not sure 'which' feminism you're speaking of here.
I think the way you are wording the post is a bit confusing.
I would prefer to answer with definitive ideologies regarding this, in response to more definitive questions. It is a complex issue, and just throwing thoughts out there can lead not only to misunderstanding but misrepresentation of ideals on the matter.
Can you ask more definitively? Give an example. I for one feel the post is too gray to answer definitively.
I prefer feminism over chauvinism any day, thats how you should compare those. Chauvinism is plain ugly and repressive, when feminism is all about
being equal. Same job should be paid same no matter is there a man or a woman doing it. Women should have prosentually same amount in high level jobs
as men..
Women today in western world are more eduacated than men are and still not getting jobs where they have better qualifications than men do.. simply wrong.
how can this be false feminism when there is still so much to improve ?
Women today in western world are more eduacated than men are and still not getting jobs where they have better qualifications than men do.. simply wrong.
how can this be false feminism when there is still so much to improve ?
StarlightNine
The 'feminist movement' isn't that easily defined...
Can you ask more definitively? Give an example. I for one feel the post is too gray to answer definitively.
I understand what you're saying, however I'm sort of going a little further in it, looking at the whole thing from outside and a more 'spiritual' perspective???
This is a link to a woman's thoughts on the subject which inspired this post
zuimon
StarlightNine
The 'feminist movement' isn't that easily defined...
Can you ask more definitively? Give an example. I for one feel the post is too gray to answer definitively.
I understand what you're saying, however I'm sort of going a little further in it, looking at the whole thing from outside and a more 'spiritual' perspective???
This is a link to a woman's thoughts on the subject which inspired this post
Ah. Well, I found the article to lean more towards religion than spirituality. I don't engage in religious conversations outside of my friends and family members, as all may believe how they wish and be respected for it. I find little use in 'debating' the religious aspects of anything for this reason.
But I will say, when you take either patriarchy or matriarchy too far, you are going to oppress someone.
There needs bee a balance of the two.
This passage struck me:
.."her intuition and it was all stripped away and replaced with fear, denial and repression through mans need of control and power and I believe this fear that ran through the veins of those brave suffering women then, still flows through the veins of woman today if they are part of our family lineage an inbred fear of being woman, a fear of being our truth and feeling."
I don't agree with that. I, as a woman, have no doubt kept my "gifts" as a woman. Man has not taken them away from me. He could not do so if they were 'true' divine gifts. Neither do I feel repressed by man nor fear him.
I was born and raised in a patriarchal society. It has its ills to be sure, but I have felt no more oppressed for it.
A matriarchal society has its own ills as well. One could speak of man's oppression therefore. ? There are actually active campaigns to minimize mens roles and depress their natures, as well as their place in their society as we speak. This is as wrong as any 'oppression' of female gifts.
It seems to speak more to each individual view of themselves, with themselves and their society. Not so much a fact that they are oppressed.
This passage:
"our feminine aspect, which is in both men and women, is about living our true expression"
I agree with this. Men have also the feminine. If only they were less in fear of using it, and showing it. But they have it nonetheless. Some men freely embrace it.
edit on 24-3-2014 by StarlightNine because: typo
Whats all this "wrongness" of males. Speak for yourself in those regards. Women are equal to men in regards to "wrongness". They can be as evil,
vindictive, violent, etc as a male.
As far as who women as a people are...well, they are women. Just because they have equal rights, pay, etc doesn't mean they will suddenly become asexual creatures...they will act as they see fit and how their hormones/upbringing/desires allows them to..same with a guy. Some women will be mirroring a 1950s household if that's their desire, or a power broker on wall street, etc..maybe a mix, who knows.
Feminisms intent is not to define what women are meant to do, but rather to remove the concept that they are meant to be any specific type of person.
Now, some women practice a version of "feminism" which is not even remotely the point of feminism. The ones screaming at other women who decided to go into some adult businesses or who simply wants to be a stay at home mom, etc...women whom make a fuss about another womans choice on what she wants to do is not a feminist, that is something else...some different word...naggist maybe? whatever..but anyhow, they can be dismissed.
One thing I will suggest though, OPs, is that generally speaking, women like their men to be men, so don't apologize for being one...there is no "wrongness" of our gender..it is all as it should be.
As far as who women as a people are...well, they are women. Just because they have equal rights, pay, etc doesn't mean they will suddenly become asexual creatures...they will act as they see fit and how their hormones/upbringing/desires allows them to..same with a guy. Some women will be mirroring a 1950s household if that's their desire, or a power broker on wall street, etc..maybe a mix, who knows.
Feminisms intent is not to define what women are meant to do, but rather to remove the concept that they are meant to be any specific type of person.
Now, some women practice a version of "feminism" which is not even remotely the point of feminism. The ones screaming at other women who decided to go into some adult businesses or who simply wants to be a stay at home mom, etc...women whom make a fuss about another womans choice on what she wants to do is not a feminist, that is something else...some different word...naggist maybe? whatever..but anyhow, they can be dismissed.
One thing I will suggest though, OPs, is that generally speaking, women like their men to be men, so don't apologize for being one...there is no "wrongness" of our gender..it is all as it should be.
SaturnFX
One thing I will suggest though, OPs, is that generally speaking, women like their men to be men, so don't apologize for being one...there is no "wrongness" of our gender..it is all as it should be.
I'm trying to be a true man… whatever the heck that is?
I think the word 'feminism' is too broad for your purposes here. It means too many different things to too many people.
There's certainly some forms of extreme feminism that most people would disagree with.
As for wanting the freedom to be as stupid as men can be? Well, that's a consequence I suppose of giving women the freedom to choose to define themselves. If that's how they want to define themselves, then surely that's their choice?
Which to me is the core of what constitutes my feminism - women having the freedom of choice to define themselves.
There's certainly some forms of extreme feminism that most people would disagree with.
As for wanting the freedom to be as stupid as men can be? Well, that's a consequence I suppose of giving women the freedom to choose to define themselves. If that's how they want to define themselves, then surely that's their choice?
Which to me is the core of what constitutes my feminism - women having the freedom of choice to define themselves.
I remember a stay at home mom was attacked here on ATS by femnazi's. "cause she was bad role model"
This modern feminism is brought ton by the whiny female population themselves, its not about equality, its about competition.
These feminist look at themselves as weak, thus they think everything women did up to this point in evolution as nothing but inferior.
Anything "women" prior to 1950s is "inferior" thus, they want to erase everything from that era.
That actual feminism was brought by the inequality, but this modern feminism is brought by the feeling of their worth as inferior.
Metro-sexual men are somewhat a product of modern day feminism.
This modern feminism is brought ton by the whiny female population themselves, its not about equality, its about competition.
These feminist look at themselves as weak, thus they think everything women did up to this point in evolution as nothing but inferior.
Anything "women" prior to 1950s is "inferior" thus, they want to erase everything from that era.
That actual feminism was brought by the inequality, but this modern feminism is brought by the feeling of their worth as inferior.
Metro-sexual men are somewhat a product of modern day feminism.
It is exactly correct to say that true feminism is the ideal that every woman be given the choice to live how she wishes. Whether that be the ideal of
June Cleaver or a high powered executive on Wall Street. The problem with some feminists today is that they judge a woman by her choice. They berate
her and belittle her.
And the true original feminist would be appalled were they alive to see it. True feminism at its most fundamental core is the right for a woman to celebrate her femininity, and do so with the recognition it makes her no less or weaker a human being than a man. Not to be underneath his feet. But neither to trample him, undermine him, weaken him, or lord over him. True feminism is the freedom of each woman to be able to choose how she herself wishes to live. It was never, ever a movement to disregard or undermine men.
Are there still hurdles? Of course. But to pretend that women in the West are as oppressed as a third world country is a little insulting.
Work on the issues, absolutely. But some of these activities and ideals are getting a little crazy.
And women need to support other women not only in however they choose to live their lives as women, but by not belittling them, bullying them, and ostracizing them from their little 'working woman cliques' OR their 'stay at home mommy' cliques.
Women on both sides need and deserve support and respect from the other.
I offer a compelling reading recommendation for those readers who may be interested in just such 'broken' feminism and sabatoge of women by women themselves:
Womans Inhumanity To Woman
An excerpt:
Thirty years or so, I believe, went into the research for this very gripping read. The text is used by those in the fields of both sociology and psychology.
And the true original feminist would be appalled were they alive to see it. True feminism at its most fundamental core is the right for a woman to celebrate her femininity, and do so with the recognition it makes her no less or weaker a human being than a man. Not to be underneath his feet. But neither to trample him, undermine him, weaken him, or lord over him. True feminism is the freedom of each woman to be able to choose how she herself wishes to live. It was never, ever a movement to disregard or undermine men.
Are there still hurdles? Of course. But to pretend that women in the West are as oppressed as a third world country is a little insulting.
Work on the issues, absolutely. But some of these activities and ideals are getting a little crazy.
And women need to support other women not only in however they choose to live their lives as women, but by not belittling them, bullying them, and ostracizing them from their little 'working woman cliques' OR their 'stay at home mommy' cliques.
Women on both sides need and deserve support and respect from the other.
I offer a compelling reading recommendation for those readers who may be interested in just such 'broken' feminism and sabatoge of women by women themselves:
Womans Inhumanity To Woman
An excerpt:
"Women's aggression may not take the same form as men's, but girls and women are indeed aggressive, often indirectly and mainly toward one another. They judge harshly, hold grudges, gossip, exclude, and disconnect from other women.
Like men, women are exposed to the messages of misogyny and sexism that permeate cultures worldwide. Like men, women unconsciously buy into negative images that can trigger abuse and mistreatment of other women. But like other social victims, many do not realize stereotyping affects members within the victimized group as well as those outside the group. They do not realize their behavior reflects society's biases."
Phyllis Chesler - Web Site
Thirty years or so, I believe, went into the research for this very gripping read. The text is used by those in the fields of both sociology and psychology.
dollukka
I prefer feminism over chauvinism any day, thats how you should compare those. Chauvinism is plain ugly and repressive, when feminism is all about being equal. Same job should be paid same no matter is there a man or a woman doing it. Women should have prosentually same amount in high level jobs as men..
Women today in western world are more eduacated than men are and still not getting jobs where they have better qualifications than men do.. simply wrong.
how can this be false feminism when there is still so much to improve ?
dollukka,
Did you get a television and or movie education...or what I call a "Public Education" in idealism.
You do know that under the concept of equality ..the male is employed in most of the death occupations in this nation ...correct??
In the spirt if "Equality" are you debating here for the women of this nation to enter and overtake the "Death Occupations" from men?? Then when they bring home their pay checks after such dangerous days on the job ..their men get the discretionary spending decisions over to where and to what the monies get spent. Are you debating over this much equality??
For this is exactly what most of the men in this nation do.
The willingness of the male to work/labor and then turn over his paycheck to his woman for her discretionary use and spending is one of the greatest adaptations in the world and it is often looked down upon and never mentioned by the feminists while claiming the nonsense you are doing here about Equality.
Are you honestly debating here for the women in this nation to overtake the death occupations ..though they may pay more than other jobs with better working condtions??
Are you debating here for women to spend more and longer hours away from home..traveling long distances...long hours from comforts the rest of us take for granted ...this in the spirit of "Equality??" Are you looking for that much equality?? Or are your eyes tainted by rose coloured glasses ..from books and magazines.
What this means to me is that a woman with a man has access to two sources of monies ..her's if she works and her mans if he works.
Are you debating here for a man to have access to two sources of monies..hers if she works and his if he too works??
Female socialization is not the product advertised here...and it most ceratainly is not "Victimization" particularly in western more economically affluent social structures.
After all...dollukka...we all know women who are extremely eager to date and marry down the economic ladder ..to be "Equal" ....correct??
Not all of us got a public education in Emotions ...via television, movies, and victimization books/thinking.
Most of the women I know are not looking for this much equality. They are looking for "Options"..particularly in a system which is already pre set up for them and most of the RISKS have been handled and managed for them before they arrived. This is called "Options" not Equalty. A thinking person knows this dollukka.
Hope this helps you and some of the other readers out here...in "Equality " of course!
Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom
edit on 31-3-2014 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)
This is not a patriarical society. It is a Matriarical Society masquerading as if it was a Patriarical Society.
I know this because of this statement I made earlier in my previous post.
In western economically affluent nations it is the female who deteremines how and why most of the monies are spent. They may not earn it or take RISKS for it but they determine how the bulk of it is spent and on what.
Only public education can dumb down people..both male and female ..sufficiently that they tend to lose sight of this bigger picture.
In third world nations where the economic conditions are far worse...the women and the men both RISK alot more in their daily lives and are more equal by the labors and RISKS they take.
The absence of RISK taking or the disparity in RISK taking in western economoic structures hides or conceals this Occult System.
The feminist position today in western social structures is very much like politics..you can take credit for what you have not done and put blame on others without being seen or known when things dont work out..or another word for it is deflect. In this method of operation ..it is very much like politics...occult...hidden..concealed...all the time screaming "Im a Victim!!"
It is a concealed Matriarical Society ..not a Patriarical Society here in the West.
Thanks,
Orangetom
I know this because of this statement I made earlier in my previous post.
The willingness of the male to work/labor and then turn over his paycheck to his woman for her discretionary use and spending is one of the greatest adaptations in the world and it is often looked down upon and never mentioned by the feminists while claiming the nonsense you are doing here about Equality.
In western economically affluent nations it is the female who deteremines how and why most of the monies are spent. They may not earn it or take RISKS for it but they determine how the bulk of it is spent and on what.
Only public education can dumb down people..both male and female ..sufficiently that they tend to lose sight of this bigger picture.
In third world nations where the economic conditions are far worse...the women and the men both RISK alot more in their daily lives and are more equal by the labors and RISKS they take.
The absence of RISK taking or the disparity in RISK taking in western economoic structures hides or conceals this Occult System.
The feminist position today in western social structures is very much like politics..you can take credit for what you have not done and put blame on others without being seen or known when things dont work out..or another word for it is deflect. In this method of operation ..it is very much like politics...occult...hidden..concealed...all the time screaming "Im a Victim!!"
It is a concealed Matriarical Society ..not a Patriarical Society here in the West.
Thanks,
Orangetom
reply to post by orangetom1999
That may be how some (not everyone) manage their relationships and personnel
economics. My circle of friends and relations nearly all have three financial accounts
eg. *Yours*, *Mine*, and *Ours*.
The *Ours* has equal amounts from both parties put in monthly, on an 'agreed'
budget, which covers all household and joint living expenses, As the annual expenses
increase for repairs, children etc. the increase becomes a joint equal contribution.
(Seems fair to me!) The earnings of the couples are reasonably similar .... maybe
that is why it seems to work for them?
At the same time I feel that if in any of the couples cases there was, a footballer?
a banker? a movie star? a Diva etc. making mega inflated salaries that it should come
as no hardship to support their partner? after all they were their choice of partner?
The reason women appear to be doing the spending is that they are usually at
the sharp end of household expenditure ... As I've yet to meet the man who enjoys
mundane 'food' shopping and the sorting out of 'house hold' expenditure, maintenance
and repairs!
That may be how some (not everyone) manage their relationships and personnel
economics. My circle of friends and relations nearly all have three financial accounts
eg. *Yours*, *Mine*, and *Ours*.
The *Ours* has equal amounts from both parties put in monthly, on an 'agreed'
budget, which covers all household and joint living expenses, As the annual expenses
increase for repairs, children etc. the increase becomes a joint equal contribution.
(Seems fair to me!) The earnings of the couples are reasonably similar .... maybe
that is why it seems to work for them?
At the same time I feel that if in any of the couples cases there was, a footballer?
a banker? a movie star? a Diva etc. making mega inflated salaries that it should come
as no hardship to support their partner? after all they were their choice of partner?
The reason women appear to be doing the spending is that they are usually at
the sharp end of household expenditure ... As I've yet to meet the man who enjoys
mundane 'food' shopping and the sorting out of 'house hold' expenditure, maintenance
and repairs!
eletheia,
Interesting point of view. But is this "Equality??" Notice what the poster Dollukka states in their post..
When one party makes enough to support both..and so does..is that equal??? Or is it the expendability and disposability of one partner over another?? You know ..the one who makes more monies..is now automatically by "default' more expendable and disposable than the one who makes less???
Notice how this administration in the White House likes things to be "Fair??"
Is that disposability and expendability the same as "Fair and Equal??"
Most of the death occupations are staffed by males...is that "Fair and Equal??"
Are social engineers and planners looking for that much equality and fairness??
hmmmm..wondering what part of the nation it is in which you dwell??
While I cannot speak for most men or even women...I do know that most of the men I know do not enjoy the "Shopping Expereience." Also most of the women I know not only excell at the "Shopping Experience" but can usually crunch these numbers and sales percentages must faster than most men and males...and even while on the go.
Back when this stuff was going on about the federal government paying for contraception of women...I took a poll at work with the number of women with whom I was in contact. I called it the Contraception Poll.
The Question I asked these women was..."If you had the choice or option to shop till you dropped or go with a man..what would you do???
How do you think they responded???
The merchandizers in this nation know this pattern...intimately. So too do the advertisers.
I can go into any grocery store or department store and see the evidence of what I am declaring here. I don t need to go to college or hear and "expert " talk about it.
The women in this country determine how most of the monies are spent across the board..in every category..big ticket items as well as small. Any car salesperson can clear this up for us?? Just ask them which sex determines the bulk of what kind of cars are bought in this country.
Only a male stuck on sports and cheerleaders can miss out on this tell tale and very important evidence that this is a matriarchial society masquerading as a patriarchial society. Give them some sports and cheerleaders and they are good for another hundred thousand miles. Throw in some alcohol along with sports and cheerleaders and they are good for a hundred fifty to two hundred thousand miles.
You cannot have a partriarical society in which the females in it have so much prime time programming along with advertising space for so many personal pampering items.
I was dumbfounded years ago when I went into a used bookstore with a woman and saw how much of the store was stocked with romance novels. How does today's multitasking hard pressed, downtrodden, victimized, brow beaten, burka wearing American woman find time to read this stuff??? How can she afford it in a Patriarical Society ???
And if she cannot afford it because she is in fact a downtrodden, brow beaten, victimized, burka wearing American Woman...who's monies are being spent on this stuff she cannot afford in order to keep these shelves stocked with these Romance Novels?? Obviously not her's. Is that fair?? Equal??
I can do this all day...eletheia.
As a matter of fact...it is after midnight and I just got off work. Most of the women out here like to work these hours..right..in equality??? Right??
Just pointing out some things which do not add up to those who can think.
Thanks for your post,
Orangetom
At the same time I feel that if in any of the couples cases there was, a footballer?
a banker? a movie star? a Diva etc. making mega inflated salaries that it should come
as no hardship to support their partner? after all they were their choice of partner?
Interesting point of view. But is this "Equality??" Notice what the poster Dollukka states in their post..
I prefer feminism over chauvinism any day, thats how you should compare those. Chauvinism is plain ugly and repressive, when feminism is all about being equal.
When one party makes enough to support both..and so does..is that equal??? Or is it the expendability and disposability of one partner over another?? You know ..the one who makes more monies..is now automatically by "default' more expendable and disposable than the one who makes less???
Notice how this administration in the White House likes things to be "Fair??"
Is that disposability and expendability the same as "Fair and Equal??"
Most of the death occupations are staffed by males...is that "Fair and Equal??"
Are social engineers and planners looking for that much equality and fairness??
The reason women appear to be doing the spending is that they are usually at
the sharp end of household expenditure ... As I've yet to meet the man who enjoys
mundane 'food' shopping and the sorting out of 'house hold' expenditure, maintenance
and repairs!
hmmmm..wondering what part of the nation it is in which you dwell??
While I cannot speak for most men or even women...I do know that most of the men I know do not enjoy the "Shopping Expereience." Also most of the women I know not only excell at the "Shopping Experience" but can usually crunch these numbers and sales percentages must faster than most men and males...and even while on the go.
Back when this stuff was going on about the federal government paying for contraception of women...I took a poll at work with the number of women with whom I was in contact. I called it the Contraception Poll.
The Question I asked these women was..."If you had the choice or option to shop till you dropped or go with a man..what would you do???
How do you think they responded???
The merchandizers in this nation know this pattern...intimately. So too do the advertisers.
I can go into any grocery store or department store and see the evidence of what I am declaring here. I don t need to go to college or hear and "expert " talk about it.
The women in this country determine how most of the monies are spent across the board..in every category..big ticket items as well as small. Any car salesperson can clear this up for us?? Just ask them which sex determines the bulk of what kind of cars are bought in this country.
Only a male stuck on sports and cheerleaders can miss out on this tell tale and very important evidence that this is a matriarchial society masquerading as a patriarchial society. Give them some sports and cheerleaders and they are good for another hundred thousand miles. Throw in some alcohol along with sports and cheerleaders and they are good for a hundred fifty to two hundred thousand miles.
You cannot have a partriarical society in which the females in it have so much prime time programming along with advertising space for so many personal pampering items.
I was dumbfounded years ago when I went into a used bookstore with a woman and saw how much of the store was stocked with romance novels. How does today's multitasking hard pressed, downtrodden, victimized, brow beaten, burka wearing American woman find time to read this stuff??? How can she afford it in a Patriarical Society ???
And if she cannot afford it because she is in fact a downtrodden, brow beaten, victimized, burka wearing American Woman...who's monies are being spent on this stuff she cannot afford in order to keep these shelves stocked with these Romance Novels?? Obviously not her's. Is that fair?? Equal??
I can do this all day...eletheia.
As a matter of fact...it is after midnight and I just got off work. Most of the women out here like to work these hours..right..in equality??? Right??
Just pointing out some things which do not add up to those who can think.
Thanks for your post,
Orangetom
edit on 1-4-2014 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)
orangetom1999
This is not a patriarical society. It is a Matriarical Society masquerading as if it was a Patriarical Society.
I know this because of this statement I made earlier in my previous post.
The willingness of the male to work/labor and then turn over his paycheck to his woman for her discretionary use and spending is one of the greatest adaptations in the world and it is often looked down upon and never mentioned by the feminists while claiming the nonsense you are doing here about Equality.
In western economically affluent nations it is the female who deteremines how and why most of the monies are spent. They may not earn it or take RISKS for it but they determine how the bulk of it is spent and on what.
Only public education can dumb down people..both male and female ..sufficiently that they tend to lose sight of this bigger picture.
In third world nations where the economic conditions are far worse...the women and the men both RISK alot more in their daily lives and are more equal by the labors and RISKS they take.
The absence of RISK taking or the disparity in RISK taking in western economoic structures hides or conceals this Occult System.
The feminist position today in western social structures is very much like politics..you can take credit for what you have not done and put blame on others without being seen or known when things dont work out..or another word for it is deflect. In this method of operation ..it is very much like politics...occult...hidden..concealed...all the time screaming "Im a Victim!!"
It is a concealed Matriarical Society ..not a Patriarical Society here in the West.
Thanks,
Orangetom
I know almost no one I can think of where the paychecks are slaved for then turned only solely to the 'woman' of the house to use at her discretion. Most all I know both work and contribute, as it takes two incomes to put generic food on the table these days. I am certain this happens, but I doubt it is so rampantly standard as that.
But now I am interested in the disparity of risk you mention. I may be falling behind in how two person households are run these days, but not sure really of the risks not taken.
orangetom1999[I]
*Dollukka* stated that men and women should be paid the same for doing
the same job? = equality?? I fully agree .....
It is my opinion that chauvinism and feminism are two sides of the same coin, but
its not the same as 'equality'
As to my views of someone on 'mega earnings' supporting a much lower earner ....
that is an obvious to me with any sex .... Off the top of my head >>>
# 'Elton John' and 'David Furnish'?
# 'Madonna' and any one of her various toy boy backing dancers?
# 'Tom Cruise' and 'Katy Holmes'? to mention a few
We need to make some allowances for cultural, national, economical and legal
differences across internet forums. That being said I am an avid believer in
fairness and equality having had to fight very hard for it myself.
Back when this stuff was going on about the federal government paying for contraception of women...I took a poll at work with the number of women with whom I was in contact. I called it the Contraception Poll.
LOL !!!
Never mind federal government being involved in contraception .... I can go a
lot further back than that ... When I was obliged to commit forgery to obtain
the medically approved contraceptive implant, as I was not allowed to have it
without my then husbands signature of approval on a legal form!!!
*MY BODY SOME ONE ELSE'S APPROVAL* I am not kidding
I was required to have a male guarantor for my taking out a mortgage
and for taking out any HP agreements I might want to take out!
I spent 21 years of my working life as the only woman in a national sales force
of over 100 males, and I noticed (subtle though it was) I had to achieve MORE
just to remain EQUAL.
Business wise all products are aimed via merchandising, advertising and
promotions to both sexes and IF its done well and successfully, they don't
even know when they've been had ....
I was dumbfounded years ago when I went into a used bookstore with a woman and saw how much of the store was stocked with romance novels. How does today's multitasking hard pressed, downtrodden, victimized, brow beaten, burka wearing American woman find time to read this stuff??? How can she afford it in a Patriarical Society ???
And if she cannot afford it because she is in fact a downtrodden, brow beaten, victimized, burka wearing American Woman...who's monies are being spent on this stuff she cannot afford in order to keep these shelves stocked with these Romance Novels?? Obviously not her's. Is that fair?? Equal??
LOL!!!
I personally do not know any women who read "romance novels" maybe a very
few adolescent girls? ... by the time they mature they realise they are being sold a
FAIRY TALE ...lol.
But afford it she can IF she is being paid an equal salary for an equal job, which
is still some what of a novelty!
I can do this all day...eletheia.
As a matter of fact...it is after midnight and I just got off work. Most of the women out here like to work these hours..right..in equality??? Right?? Just pointing out some things which do not add up to those who can think.
FUNNY.....The last time I was in hospital ALL the night staff were female
and I know that at least 50% of night staff in the local ASDA (that's your Wallmart)
are female. A few years ago when my Mother required an ambulance through
the night, the driver and one of the two attendants were female!!...
StarlightNine,
I know many men who turn over their paychecks to their women for spending on the household. Some of these women work and some do not. Nonetheless the women in this nation primarily determine how the monies are spent..on both big ticket as well as small ticket items...across the board. The men keep back some monies and the women determine how the bulk of it is spent. I am not just talking about food here...but everything.,
As to RISK...StarlineNine..I will cover that later in this post.
eletheia,
Do they in fact do this eletheia??
I will repeat here what I stated earlier to Dollukka. The men or males are still heavily involve in what are called the Death Occupations. Is Dollukka debating here for more of the women in this country to be employed in the Death Occupations where they can be more statistically killed or maimed for life and their physical countinence marred..their value in the marketplace against other women or competition marred or scarred for life...even though these jobs pay higher for the RISKS taken???
Is this what Dollukka is debating here??? In Equality???? doing the same work...taking the same RISKS???
What I note quickly when these types of conversation take place...the concept of RISK taking for ones monies is never brought up. Nor is often the harsh conditions...long hours...hard shifts...bad enviornments...weather et al.
This all entails RISK Taking eletheia.
Is Dollukka debating for this much equality. That is my point here. Same pay for the same work...the same RISK.
You see...eletheia....when I hear leadership screeming for things being Fair..or Equal...and then I hear them speaking of "Wealth Redistribution"....I've been around long enough to see clearly that they are not talking about "RISK Redistribution." I do not need to be highly educated to see this clearly.
It is the same index or fingerprint with "Equality."
It is political hype. It is sexual hype. It is Guilt Politics in order to default through without debat or dissent.
It is also often PC which is the same index or fingerprint.
LOL LOL LOL...yeah..I stuck that one in there for laughs. I am glad you found humor in it. I do too with a side note of seriousness to it. It is clear to me that while many in the movement tout the "Glass Wage Ceiling " that someone is buying up so many of these books in order to keep this market going. Someone's monies are being spent on them. If a woman is spending her own monies...no problem by me. I dont tell someone how to spend their monies. But I note this disparity in lieu of the "Glass Wage Ceiling " so often touted and brought forth..particularly near election times.
I am also not speaking strictly of these books but a plethora of magazines of all types which appeal to women. I am constantly bombarded by them when going through the checkout stands at the grocery store or the chemist. Someone is buying this stuff. I particularly notice the crem de la crem..Cosmo. Glass Wage Cieling ??? Whose monies are being spent to support such an industry such that the shelves do not go bare in these products???
By the way ..I read some of these romance novels some years ago...and quickly realized that these books are what I call "Soft Pornography". Same thing with Cosmo.
Access to dreams, fantasys, beliefs, and expectations, cheaply, and without rejection."
yeah...I used to date two nurses many years ago. They educated me to some informations about nurses as well as doctors and what goes on in many hospitals.
I also know what an often thankless job nursing can be. Long hours little pay.
I am aware that many women today do not go into nursing and that there is a nurse shortage. This was created by the industry itself. Many women when they find out how thankless and non paying the job is for the inconvenience and RISKS involved in the work they do not go into it or quit for jobs more satisfying or even with better conditions. They quickly discover that nursing is not quite as portrayed in television and movies.
As to the contraception issue..I have no problem with women having access to contraception. I do have issue with being made to pay for it on the public dole....for votes.
I think that it should be between a woman and her doctor and insurance company. Not the government...pimping out/merchandizing the women for votes.
Whether one party in a relationship makes more monies than the other is really none of my business. As I stated..I dont tell someone else what to do or not do with their monies. That is a decision between these parties. I also dont believe the government belongs there in the decisions made between two parties and their spending such as
this.
But my point in this debate is that Equality is often politically overated and overdramatized for leverage and often in forums like this...with a concept that most will not catch it.
I can go into any store on the street out here and see that the advertisers know their market and who has access to the decision making process of who decides how and on what the monies are spent. In any of the variety of stores out here you see a ratio of about 7 to 1 merchandize marketed with the female and women in mind. Not the men or males. Once again I do not need to be highly educated to figure this out. I dont think most of the males or men even bother to figure it out. Most of them their depth of thinking falls way short here. As I said ...give them some sports, cheerleaders, and alcohol..and they are good for another 1 to 2 hundred thousand miles...and many touchdowns too. I do not think this accidental..but cultivated...carefully.
Unless it is a fishing program..I do not waste my time watching sports.
When the Super Bowl comes on I find out when is kick off time and then go to the stores. Not before ..but after kick off time.
I am not interested in the sports conditioning to run touchdowns at high RISK for women. I generally think it through as to whether it is even worth my time and RISKS to so do...particularly in a day and time when "Equality " is taking place...Correct???
Well ..enough on that...
Oh...while I am at it...StarlineNine...I ordered that book you posted
"Womans Inhumanity To Woman"
Waiting for it to arrive. It sounded interesting and informative. Thanks for recommending it.
Some time in the last year I also read Erin Pizzey's book "This Way to the Revolution"
about the early days of the feminist movement in England. I found this to be very informative as to the direction someone intended to take the movement and have succeeded today.
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396420757&sr=1-1&keywords=erin+pizzey
I am glad I ran across that name. Erin Pizzey. Very informative both in U tube video and in books.
Thanks again for recommending that book to me.
Thanks to all for their posts.
Orangetom
I know almost no one I can think of where the paychecks are slaved for then turned only solely to the 'woman' of the house to use at her discretion. Most all I know both work and contribute, as it takes two incomes to put generic food on the table these days. I am certain this happens, but I doubt it is so rampantly standard as that.
But now I am interested in the disparity of risk you mention. I may be falling behind in how two person households are run these days, but not sure really of the risks not taken.
I know many men who turn over their paychecks to their women for spending on the household. Some of these women work and some do not. Nonetheless the women in this nation primarily determine how the monies are spent..on both big ticket as well as small ticket items...across the board. The men keep back some monies and the women determine how the bulk of it is spent. I am not just talking about food here...but everything.,
As to RISK...StarlineNine..I will cover that later in this post.
eletheia,
*Dollukka* stated that men and women should be paid the same for doing
the same job? = equality?? I fully agree .....
It is my opinion that chauvinism and feminism are two sides of the same coin, but
its not the same as 'equality'
Do they in fact do this eletheia??
I will repeat here what I stated earlier to Dollukka. The men or males are still heavily involve in what are called the Death Occupations. Is Dollukka debating here for more of the women in this country to be employed in the Death Occupations where they can be more statistically killed or maimed for life and their physical countinence marred..their value in the marketplace against other women or competition marred or scarred for life...even though these jobs pay higher for the RISKS taken???
Is this what Dollukka is debating here??? In Equality???? doing the same work...taking the same RISKS???
What I note quickly when these types of conversation take place...the concept of RISK taking for ones monies is never brought up. Nor is often the harsh conditions...long hours...hard shifts...bad enviornments...weather et al.
This all entails RISK Taking eletheia.
Is Dollukka debating for this much equality. That is my point here. Same pay for the same work...the same RISK.
You see...eletheia....when I hear leadership screeming for things being Fair..or Equal...and then I hear them speaking of "Wealth Redistribution"....I've been around long enough to see clearly that they are not talking about "RISK Redistribution." I do not need to be highly educated to see this clearly.
It is the same index or fingerprint with "Equality."
It is political hype. It is sexual hype. It is Guilt Politics in order to default through without debat or dissent.
It is also often PC which is the same index or fingerprint.
LOL!!!
I personally do not know any women who read "romance novels" maybe a very
few adolescent girls? ... by the time they mature they realise they are being sold a
FAIRY TALE ...lol.
But afford it she can IF she is being paid an equal salary for an equal job, which
is still some what of a novelty!
LOL LOL LOL...yeah..I stuck that one in there for laughs. I am glad you found humor in it. I do too with a side note of seriousness to it. It is clear to me that while many in the movement tout the "Glass Wage Ceiling " that someone is buying up so many of these books in order to keep this market going. Someone's monies are being spent on them. If a woman is spending her own monies...no problem by me. I dont tell someone how to spend their monies. But I note this disparity in lieu of the "Glass Wage Ceiling " so often touted and brought forth..particularly near election times.
I am also not speaking strictly of these books but a plethora of magazines of all types which appeal to women. I am constantly bombarded by them when going through the checkout stands at the grocery store or the chemist. Someone is buying this stuff. I particularly notice the crem de la crem..Cosmo. Glass Wage Cieling ??? Whose monies are being spent to support such an industry such that the shelves do not go bare in these products???
By the way ..I read some of these romance novels some years ago...and quickly realized that these books are what I call "Soft Pornography". Same thing with Cosmo.
Access to dreams, fantasys, beliefs, and expectations, cheaply, and without rejection."
FUNNY.....The last time I was in hospital ALL the night staff were female
and I know that at least 50% of night staff in the local ASDA (that's your Wallmart)
are female. A few years ago when my Mother required an ambulance through
the night, the driver and one of the two attendants were female!!...
yeah...I used to date two nurses many years ago. They educated me to some informations about nurses as well as doctors and what goes on in many hospitals.
I also know what an often thankless job nursing can be. Long hours little pay.
I am aware that many women today do not go into nursing and that there is a nurse shortage. This was created by the industry itself. Many women when they find out how thankless and non paying the job is for the inconvenience and RISKS involved in the work they do not go into it or quit for jobs more satisfying or even with better conditions. They quickly discover that nursing is not quite as portrayed in television and movies.
As to the contraception issue..I have no problem with women having access to contraception. I do have issue with being made to pay for it on the public dole....for votes.
I think that it should be between a woman and her doctor and insurance company. Not the government...pimping out/merchandizing the women for votes.
Whether one party in a relationship makes more monies than the other is really none of my business. As I stated..I dont tell someone else what to do or not do with their monies. That is a decision between these parties. I also dont believe the government belongs there in the decisions made between two parties and their spending such as
this.
But my point in this debate is that Equality is often politically overated and overdramatized for leverage and often in forums like this...with a concept that most will not catch it.
I can go into any store on the street out here and see that the advertisers know their market and who has access to the decision making process of who decides how and on what the monies are spent. In any of the variety of stores out here you see a ratio of about 7 to 1 merchandize marketed with the female and women in mind. Not the men or males. Once again I do not need to be highly educated to figure this out. I dont think most of the males or men even bother to figure it out. Most of them their depth of thinking falls way short here. As I said ...give them some sports, cheerleaders, and alcohol..and they are good for another 1 to 2 hundred thousand miles...and many touchdowns too. I do not think this accidental..but cultivated...carefully.
Unless it is a fishing program..I do not waste my time watching sports.
When the Super Bowl comes on I find out when is kick off time and then go to the stores. Not before ..but after kick off time.
I am not interested in the sports conditioning to run touchdowns at high RISK for women. I generally think it through as to whether it is even worth my time and RISKS to so do...particularly in a day and time when "Equality " is taking place...Correct???
Well ..enough on that...
Oh...while I am at it...StarlineNine...I ordered that book you posted
"Womans Inhumanity To Woman"
Waiting for it to arrive. It sounded interesting and informative. Thanks for recommending it.
Some time in the last year I also read Erin Pizzey's book "This Way to the Revolution"
about the early days of the feminist movement in England. I found this to be very informative as to the direction someone intended to take the movement and have succeeded today.
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396420757&sr=1-1&keywords=erin+pizzey
I am glad I ran across that name. Erin Pizzey. Very informative both in U tube video and in books.
Thanks again for recommending that book to me.
Thanks to all for their posts.
Orangetom
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