If you don't believe all the bible, why believe any of it?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by ketsuko

 

Now, let's examine science. Science isn't any better at getting to the truth, either. Sure, science is good at telling us how the world around us works, but if you want to know why things work the way they do ... the truth about it.

Because there has to be a human motivation behind the mechanics of the universe? That's asinine. The "Prime Mover", as some around here call it - a.k.a. the first cause - is as likely to be human in nature as the universe itself is. Which is to say, not at all.

And right now, it takes as much faith for you to believe that as it does for me to believe that something (God) set it all in motion. Science has no real way to even begin to test any of it. It's all just conjecture on anyone's part.

If you can't accept that basic truth, that's your willful blindness, not mine.

reply to post by ketsuko

And right now, it takes as much faith for you to believe that as it does for me to believe that something (God) set it all in motion. Science has no real way to even begin to test any of it. It's all just conjecture on anyone's part.

If you can't accept that basic truth, that's your willful blindness, not mine.

I don't need to believe in human emotion as an innate quality of universal mechanics in order to sleep at night. The universe is coldly impartial, and I'm just fine with that.

reply to post by ketsuko


No it doesn't take faith to believe in science. It takes deductive reasoning.....which faith is kinda the opposite of.

sorry but bible is a story like any other story over the years its been added to and what was the truth has long been manipulated.

let people believe what they like but i for one will never believe some god controls us,when he decides to make an apperance again ( which if you aren,t wrapped up in the biggest cult believe ever) you know will never happen cause he doesn,t exist and never has.

seriously believing in something who lets people get murdered,people to be abused etc etc,i could go on and on.

i,m comfortable in knowing when i die i,ll go where everyone else goes and thats no where cause when you die thats it,lights out,don,t pass go,don,t see the pearly gates,the lights go off and they stay off.

reply to post by ArtemisE




The bible is prophetic in nature, it speaks in riddles and metaphors. It speaks to the people who choose to hear what it says and says nothing to those that choose to turn a deaf ear. Much like the rest of the world, you get out of it what you put into it. It guarantees nothing but offers everything if what you learn from it makes you a better person.

ArtemisE
reply to post by ketsuko

 

No it doesn't take faith to believe in science. It takes deductive reasoning.....which faith is kinda the opposite of.

No, it takes deductive reasoning and logic to be successful at science. I can believe that science is adequate to address quite a few things that tell us how our universe works, but frankly, science simply does not have the tools at its disposal to address what was before the beginning of the universe.

The best that anyone can do to answer that question is offer conjecture. To wit, you can either believe that something (the universe) came from nothing -or- you can believe that something (the universe) was set in motion by something else (God) ... or a range of options in between.

But, there is absolutely nothing that science can do to test any of those hypotheses - zip, zilch, nada, nothing.

So, to pick one of those options out and choose to believe that it is the answer above all the others is to go on simple faith.

reply to post by Helious


But how do you know that is metaphors and truth. Sounds like you just let your imagination run wild. And run with it.

ArtemisE


This is for those Christians who don't believe in the literal truth of creation and the bible. But do believe and concierge them selves Christians.

How do you decide what to believe and what not to? To an atheist it looks like cherry picking what people wish were true. While ignoring the things you don't agree with. It seems to me that almost every Christian as a nearly completely different take on what all consider to absolute truth. Logically how can any truth be found when no one even agrees on the fundamentals?

I am A Christian Mystic with direct mystical experiences that have come to me from following Christ's teachings.

To me, The Old Testament is a Dead Horse.....it shows how people used to live, believe, pray, think, many different authors all saying different things through the filters of human bias/perspective, perhaps even adding their own takes and nature as superimpositions as to what God is and how he is like. Heck, I've even considered & wrestled with the possibility that the god of OT could be a demi-urge....

However, when Christ arrives on the scene in the OT, he changes everything....flips the script on the dead ways of the Jews and provides an actual Spiritual Path that includes Ego death, Love, non-judgment, and spiritual gifts/powers.

I hold the words attributed to Christ in the OT as the most important, and everything else secondary....cause none of the other authors or disciples were at Christ's level of Union/Oneness with God.

So I followed his teachings, got baptized, and eventually ego death came to me through bliss and Grace, and into me were downloaded spiritual faculties that are permanently still within me 10 years later. I am in a timeless state, a very quiet peacefulness, in a Beingness where nothing can touch me, detached from the world yet still in it, tons of self discipline, honor, non-judgment, strength, courage, and most importantly a ton of Love & Compassion for complete strangers. This all came from a Christian Awakening.

So the direct experiences proved that Christ's teaching are a legit Spiritual Path.....but I don't really go into the OT ever, and choose to disregard it as the dead ways of the past. My walk with God is now a living breathing daily experience of Life and Infinity that breathes through every fiber of every atom

reply to post by ketsuko


Actually if you didn't research, then your belief in science would be faith based. However if you care to learn the mechanics of the universe. Then see those mechanics tested and proven correct. You don't need faith at all. You know scientifically what conclustion to make. I'm not reading a mainly disproven science text book and having faith some of its true. That's what Christians do with the bible.

IMHO if god were real it should be testable. Prayer should have a measurable effect on more then just people's brain. Or some such animal.

Oh hate to beat a dead horse, but the creation story is testable... We know you can't have planets, oceans and plants before you have stars... That's very testable.

reply to post by dominicus


But if you consider the OT false, why would the quotes of Jesus remain true through the edits and political tampering that's been done. Why do you think that's unchanged while the test has been tampered with? Seems to me y'all all just choose to believe rather than do the actual " math".

ArtemisE
reply to post by Helious

 

But how do you know that is metaphors and truth. Sounds like you just let your imagination run wild. And run with it.

Classic example of somebody who doesn't get the whole thing we call life. Not to be a jerk and not for nothing but how exactly do you know anything you have ever been told is "truth"? Because somebody else told you?

It's up to all of us as individuals to use critical thinking, rational thought and our own instincts to decide what we believe outside of influence that tries to steer us into a preconceived mindset of what suits their interests in what we believe.

It's not a guess that the bible speaks in metaphors, it does and I never said what was in the Bible was "truth". What is true and what isn't is subjective depending on what you believe. If the bible helps a person to become a better person than what they were before they read it, it is true enough for that individual, regardless of how you view it.

ArtemisE
reply to post by dominicus

 

But if you consider the OT false, why would the quotes of Jesus remain true through the edits and political tampering that's been done. Why do you think that's unchanged while the test has been tampered with? Seems to me y'all all just choose to believe rather than do the actual " math".

I didn't say OT was false, just that it does not really apply to me...when Christ arrives on the scene, he nullifies the OT and introduces a New Way. SO it's quite simple...all I've ever needed was the NT.

Sure there could be edits in the NT as well, and there are plenty. There is one mention of Jesus discussing the Third Eye, which got changed to something else in newer versions of the Bible. But still, even if you read the newer edited versions, everything you need is there.

Love God, repent of your mistakes, realize your mistakes are caused by the Ego, Deny the Ego (Once you learn what it is), Love Others, Don't Judge, Learn to Love Christ as well in a brotherly, teacher, friend, savior kind of way, grow this Love between you and God and what the NT teaches, and eventually get Baptized.

That Baptism + How much you Love God and are ready to experience him = An eventual Mystical Awakening via Grace/Holy Spirit as a direct experience. Once you get this direct experience, you are no longer operating on faith, or needing books, or words from a book. You are then directly experiencing the Divine and you know it to be true, just like you know your lungs are breathing right now when you take notice of them.

It's just a Spiritual Path that is supposed to lead to an Awakening, Bliss, Love, & experiencing God directly. If your stuck on a level of words, books, mistrust, belief issues, then you may never get past that as a sort of "perfectionist complex." In another example, I just recently met a real nice woman. She's not the prettiest physically, but her soul, heart, personality, and how she is within is just explosively magnetic and mystical. Had I been a "perfectionist" with her, I would have missed something beautiful.

If Christianity doesnt work for you because you lack "feeling it", and are more head based logic/reason, then try some practical advanced yoga techniques or meditations. Eventually you'll get an experience that way and you'll see that direct experiences prove the books that speak of them

reply to post by sine.nomine

A lot of it is metaphoric

Which parts are metaphorical?

I'm not asking about the use of obvious metaphors in the text, such as 'ye are the salt of the earth'. I mean, what events and descriptions in the Bible are not meant to be taken literally? Was the Virgin Birth a metaphor? Was Noah's Flood a metaphor? Is the demolition of Jericho by trumpet-blast on a planet that has suddenly stopped rotating a metaphor? Were the haemorrhoids God gave the Philistines for stealing the Ark of the Covenant a metaphor?

A metaphor for what?

Back to the original question ................


Part of having a mental disorder means you need to be flexible to maintain your fantasy world. A lot of cults do this to keep its followers.


eg...... Christians do not celebrate Christ's birth on his actual birthday. Every time they have falsely worshiped the wrong day, hence obviously the wrong person. They sin.

But it is all semantics right ?

Not exactly true. If it could be confirmed, a 100% fact that the Bible has never changed, not one word, since it's existence, and that language can be perfectly translated/understood, even lasting the test of time, then, perhaps, people just believe what they want. Interpretation, though, is another form of faith. It is believed the Bible is a book from god, not that each and every copy was hand-written in simple terms everyone can understand/no one could debate.

Long story short; We are humans. The pages we print ink on, the bindings of the book, the hundreds of translations - All human, and still capable of being impacted by human error, and open to different interpretations by different people, justly so.

reply to post by deadlyhope

It is believed the Bible is a book from god, not that each and every copy was hand-written in simple terms everyone can understand/no one could debate.

Because no god would ever resort to such infallible, practical, common-sense measures, right? Its ludicrous to think they might actually take steps to prevent a notoriously flawed society from misreading or misinterpreting something so sacred and important. Utterly laughable, right?

for all the people that say the bible is the truth....which truth?
www.youtube.com...
this video shows that there could be up to 50 books of the bible that were left out. and that's not even counting what has been edited out of the ones that are currently in circulation. "the word of god" becomes meaningless, when "man" has changed it for centuries.
I personally have 1 belief, no church needed, no priest needed, no book needed....it's called the "golden rule"...easy to understand, extremely hard to follow 100% percent of the time...

dominicus
I didn't say OT was false, just that it does not really apply to me...when Christ arrives on the scene, he nullifies the OT and introduces a New Way. SO it's quite simple...all I've ever needed was the NT.

Um...what about Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Looks pretty cut and dried to me...can't just cherrypick the NT. If you're buying in, you're there for the whole enchilada.

Christians seem to have forgotten that up until around 50 yrs ago they all took the bible literally and were all creationists. Then with the growing influence of secular society they suddenly, after 1950 years, came to the realization that (gasp,shock)all those stories in the OT were pretty vile and completely indefensible.

Theses days we have christians boasting they they've dropped the OT, and expecting a pat on the back for it...

But there's still work to be done, the whole ruckus surrounding gay people and christians being opposed to them getting married shows that there's still a great many OT believing faithful in the flock.

ArtemisE
This is for those Christians who don't believe in the literal truth of creation and the bible. But do believe and concierge them selves Christians.

Okay .. that's me. And that's MOST Christians on the planet.

How do you decide what to believe and what not to?

The bible isn't one big book .. take it or leave it. It's dozens of individual books. Each book has it's own purpose and it's own flavor. Some are myths. Some are allegory. Some are folklore. Some are historical. Some are interpretation of teachings of Jesus Christ.

The Old Testament has books that are easily debunked. They are myth. They have no bearing on salvation. They are full of cultural laws being passed off as 'gods law' by those that wanted to control the peasants of that day.

The New Testament has books that are historical about Jesus and His teaching. They have a MUCH better historical traceability. There are also books by people who are interpreting the teachings of Jesus.

The bible isn't an all or nothing deal. Some fundamentalists try to make it out to be. But it really isn't.