I think Jesus warned the 12 disciples against apostle Paul in Matthew 24:26

reply to post by ahnggk

Then simply put, you don't believe the bible is the "word of god". You believe you can pick and choose what fits your personal world-view. An eclectic-Christian, so to speak. That's cool. I don't have a dog in this fight, anyway. As Akragon knows, I am an atheist at this point in my life. However, I do sometimes enjoy the debates surrounding topics like this. I like to read others perspectives on old issues like this one. And this IS an old issue.

Klassified
reply to post by ahnggk

 

Then simply put, you don't believe the bible is the "word of god". You believe you can pick and choose what fits your personal world-view. An eclectic-Christian, so to speak. That's cool. I don't have a dog in this fight, anyway. As Akragon knows, I am an atheist at this point in my life. However, I do sometimes enjoy the debates surrounding topics like this. I like to read others perspectives on old issues like this one. And this IS an old issue.

That is cool with me as well

Glad you see it as an issue because it's a BIG issue in Christianity. I don't blame Atheists for their attitudes and huge doubts against Christianity.

I don't just pick things. I run these teachings into tests with real life situations. The teachings of Jesus usually remains true, but Paul's teachings are as worthless as sand in the worst case scenarios and can even be used for evil purposes.

As they say, the foolish man built his house upon the sand - building your life around teachings that won't hold true in real life.

reply to post by ahnggk


I think Paul has but one good use... He defined love as it has never been defined before...

And by doing so, also completely exposed the so called god of the OT... Obviously by mistake, but none the less

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.


Line that up with the god of the OT and the tyrant is exposed as The Imposter he is...

reply to post by ahnggk


Paul had his own version of God. It was his beliefs and teachings, nothing more. Most of the 40,000 or so denominations of Christian churches are based on Paul's teachings with some inklings of Jesus' teachings that people assume don't contradict. Even with the Churches' teachings of Jesus, they only talk about the literal interpretations anyways. Christian church doctrines are extremely lukewarm, requiring little to hardly any discipline in raising your hearts and minds to a new level. No wonder people don't see the fallacies of Paul's teachings.

But regardless, there is always truth in all things, including Paul's teachings. You may learn a thing or two from him, but leave the rest to just lessons of deciphering between God's Truth and deception. It is great training to use your own heart of intuition to see the Truth--to see the Light from within the mist of fog. Don't go into battles of who is right or wrong, Jesus or Paul, Muhammad or Buddha. Take what knowledge seems True to the Mind of God (within your heart, gut feeling [God Feeling]) and then bless the falsehoods for the lessons of wisdom.

Akragon
I think Paul has but one good use... He defined love as it has never been defined before...

And by doing so, also completely exposed the so called god of the OT... Obviously by mistake, but none the less

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.

Love always trusts?? Really?? Red flag?? Smell a conspiracy there??


Jesus himself did not trust anyone always! Jesus even doubted Peter a few times! Jesus had a quite powerful discernment, and so did Peter as he demonstrated a bit later in Acts.


Ironically, Paul's teaching on love also undid him. Paul is a self-promoter, proud, keeps record of wrongs (by not forgiving John Mark). Paul always exalts himself by always declaring his righteous attributes (if he ever had them). It contrasts with the attitudes of Jesus who often started by preaching God's Words or causing miracles - without first declaring how righteous and God sent He is as Paul often did.

ctophil Don't go into battles of who is right or wrong, Jesus or Paul, Muhammad or Buddha. Take what knowledge seems True to the Mind of God (within your heart, gut feeling [God Feeling]) and then bless the falsehoods for the lessons of wisdom.

Great reply overall!

There is no battle of right and wrongs between Jesus and Paul.

It's obvious, the teachings of Paul, could not stand up to real life situations like "love always trusts", good luck with that one! The Spirit gives us discernment as the true disciples of Jesus had. Discernment is worthless if we need to trust all but Jesus showed us, Jesus did not trust everyone, He did not trust Judas, the Pharisees, Peter at times, one of thieves with Him on the cross, etc.

Klassified
reply to post by Akragon

 

Maybe we should throw out Peter's writings as well, since hea told god he wouldn't eat what god presented to him, because it was unclean.
2Peter3

You missinterpret that dream.

reply to post by ahnggk

. . . keeps record of wrongs (by not forgiving John Mark)

That's in Acts, a piece of early historical fiction and John Mark was probably not even a real person, but a literary device for the writer to make a point.

reply to post by ahnggk


Jesus already KNEW if a person was not trustworthy. So of course he didn't trust everyone, as I am sure you know people aren't all that honest.
Judas was the treasurer of the disciples, thats a high position of trust, especially for the one who would betray him.

stok3th3fir3
Judas was the treasurer of the disciples, thats a high position of trust, especially for the one who would betray him.

edit on 13-3-2014 by stok3th3fir3 because: (no reason given)

Being a treasurer is not a high position of trust for Jesus as matters of the flesh which includes money does not have a value to Jesus (John 6:63).

Rather, a high position of trust is anyone whom the Gospel or the responsibility of preaching the Gospel is entrusted to.



"The first in this world are the last in the Kingdom of God" but the last in this world, are the first in the Kingdom of God. The things we value in this world, is usually the opposite in Heaven, money, worldly skills, worldly education, worldly achievements, loving things in this world (1 John 2:15-16) they are abominations and detestable in the Kingdom (Luke 16:15).

It would surprise many later on that the least in this world, the poor, those who desire not riches, honor, and fame, the least educated, the least ambitious (in the worldly context), they would be the greatest in God's Kingdom. This principle also applies to Christians. The Christians who work to have the same things unbelievers want like a successful career, good places to live and raise families, they'll also mourn when Jesus comes back to Earth in His glory and power.

ahnggk
Jesus gave us this warning and I can't help but notice it seems to match the circumstances leading to Paul's conversion while on his way to Damascus (Acts 9:3-5)

Matthew 24:26
"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.


The place immediately surrounding Damascus is a desert (wilderness):

bibleatlas.org...

The Greek word used in Matthew 24:26 to describe "wilderness" is ἐρήμῳ which means desolate, lonely, solitary. A desert is as desolate as it can be.

biblehub.com...
nlp.perseus.tufts.edu...)rh%2Fmw%7C&la=greek&can=e)rh%2Fmw%7C0&prior=th=%7C

Acts 9 describes Paul nearing Damascus in his journey when he encountered a supernatural event which he claimed to be an encounter with Jesus which clearly puts him in the desert wilderness.

Paul's conversion experience cross references in Acts:

biblehub.com...

In some of these cross referenced verses, Paul is practically telling other people that he saw Jesus in the wilderness (the place near Damascus)!!

Given the many apparent contradictions of the teachings of Paul against the teachings of Jesus, it doesn't seem surprising that Paul would match person(s) Jesus warned us about in Matthew 24:26!

And it gives us confirmation those contradictory teachings of Paul, are not just apparent, they absolutely contradictory!

In the context of Matthew 24:26, the Son was telling the disciples what would be the signs of the end of the age and he was very explicit!

There is only one Antichrist, but the Beast from the Land will get people to make images of the Antichrist, which he has the power to give 'life/breath' to (Rev 13: 14 & 15). This is why there will be so many of these 'clones', for want of a better word, all around the world. This is what the Son was warning against... because if you don't bend your knee and bow down to this false Christ, you will be up- and out-standingly visible. The message is to avoid throwing yourself under the bus, so to speak. Your time will come when it is your time! (Revelation 13:10)

The final gospel is proclaimed in this same context in Matthew 245:9 & 14. "Then they will deliver you up to Tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all [religious] nations on account of my name." "And THIS gospel (which doesn't mean 'good news', but 'preaching with the connotation of a reward' - Vines Expository Dictionary) of the Kingdom will be preached in all the world, as a witness to all the [religious] nations, and THEN the end will come."

Compare Enoch Chapter 1:1-3 1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be 2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is 3 for to come. Concerning the elect I said, and took up my parable concerning them: ...
Source: wesley.nnu.edu...

Note the reference in Enoch, to Matthew 24:34, which also refers to a particular generation! We're that generation because we're the ones who are the first to hear, and understand, that 'gospel' (sic).

As the Son said in John 6:45 'It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God...' ", which is from Isaiah 54:13. It means, you can't rely on anyone to teach you the meanings within the Bible; only the Holy Spirit of God the Father! Obviously, to do this, you need to make contact first, as I have, which is the only reason I know any of these things.

How do you make contact? I'm not sure, but I can give you two very important tips - observe the Sabbath in the strictest sense, worshipping ONLY God the Father, - and check for the real name of the Son of God!

Then you'll see who stands 'in place' (which is what the word 'anti' means) of the true Messiah. Imagine worshipping the Antichrist as God, wearing his mark, and eating foods sacrificed [made specifically] to him, such as chocolates and cakes!

reply to post by stok3th3fir3

I'm not misinterpreting it. I understand it. You're missing my point in mentioning it at all. The point was, Peter had his own learning experiences in life. He's no better or worse than Paul imo.

This seemed to me like a really good breakdown of the whole situation.

doctrine.org...

The point made at that link is that Jesus, and the 12 preached the gospel of the kingdom (i.e. that he was messiah and that an earthly kingdom was at hand if they'd have repented. While Paul preaches the gospel of the grace of God)

reply to post by Klassified


*L* In a sense, your footnote is so eloquently appropriate to my post!

It is demonstrated in the 'riddle' at the end of my post; which should also give anyone a very vivid idea of how and why his followers will be so hated and reviled specifically over/on account of/because of his name, as promised in Matthew 24:9!

ahnggk

PsychoEmperor
What is the contradiction? Do the teachings of Paul tell us to murder our neighbors? Please list what you feel the difference in the teachings and the contradiction is.

It's quite an extensive list so I'll just give you a link:

www.jesuswordsonly.com...

That was a very interesting read, Thank you for that, I will do more research.

reply to post by Maigret



Don't hold your breath now, that is just one of the Biblical prophecies that is pointing to the many circumstances surrounding Paul and his probable place as a false prophet.


Perhaps you will say, prophecies could be just mere coincidences. How about make it four more prophecies in addition to my OP?


If 5 different prophesies pointing to the circumstances of Paul are not enough, then we have the abundance of apparent contradictions in the teachings of Paul against the teachings of Jesus. Not to mention, the abundant self-exaltation in many of Paul's epistles - a quality unbecoming of any Christian. Lastly, the inconsistencies in the details of Paul's multiple retelling of his conversion experience.


It's utterly impressive how clever planning, is more effective than fluoride to make people believe a lie!

reply to post by PsychoEmperor


No Problem! Glad to see another open mind!

reply to post by Klassified


If you read past the dream you will see what the interpretation actually is. It is aboit people not food. You have misinterpreted that dream.

reply to post by ahnggk


Good point.

stok3th3fir3
reply to post by Klassified

 

If you read past the dream you will see what the interpretation actually is. It is aboit people not food. You have misinterpreted that dream.

I read and studied the bible for almost 30 years as a devout Christian. I know what that passage is about. Again, you have missed my point in referencing it. Of course it's about people. "Clean and unclean". It is Peter's misunderstanding, and god's subsequent correction, that taught Peter not to think people unclean that god had made clean. So do you throw out Peter's epistles because he made a few mistakes? Had to be corrected? Or because you may not understand what he's saying in an epistle? No. You do exactly what you have obviously done. Study until you do understand. Do you see where I was going now?