SeaWorld May Lose Killer Whale Shows Thanks to Shocking Documentary

dragonridr

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Indigent

 

i read this on mobile a few days ago, so didn't post.

my wife watched this documentary a couple weeks ago, on Netflix. I listened with half an ear. Their argument is compelling, and supporting common sense. Essentially: these whales are going insane in captivity.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But i find it hard trying to imagine a scenario where it would humane to do what we do to them in captivity. Whether the video is bogus or not, i would like to see someone provide more than pseudologic to dispute it.

What do they do to them in captivity exactly? As far as ive seen the people love those animals and treat them like there family. You have to realize they're not hiring anybody to do this they hire marine biologists there trainers have PHDs. People only do this if they truly love marine animals.Now we have no idea what killer whales or dolphins are thinking we cant so to say there depressed or hostile is human emotions being subjected to another species that we dont even know if it applies. For example everyones heard stories of dolphins saving people in trouble from drowning but theyve also drowned people as well. It could be they saved them because they saw another species in trouble and sees us as another mammal and trying to help.Or its instinctual and the same as a sick dolphin the dolphins help them to the surface as well it could be just instinct. Or something as simple as they found something interesting to play with we have no idea id like to think they mean to help but hey who knows. But i will say this The only way people learn is through experience and the only way we care about things is when we understand them and we learn to care is when we've learned this is worth caring about. Id say the benefits of those thousands of children visiting and learning means that someone will be around in the future who cares. And hopefully one day we wont have people killing whales or shooting sea lions just because they can.

They are animals that swim the entire globe, and we stick them in small tanks.

Each pod is like its own culture. We break apart those pods.

Put yourself in their shoes for awhile. Just use empathy....would it be how you would want to be treated? Would you have an "ends justify the means" mentality were it actually your species this was being done to?

Is the dorsal fin thing something you see in a natural environment?

You can lay out all the credentials for the employees you want. Common sense still would seem to dictate that what we are doing to them is inhumane.

reply to post by Snarl


Dogs are not whales. Whales swim the entire expanse of the planet. That is their "yard" that they roam.

Dogs....dogs walked up out of the darkness millenia ago to become our companions. Dogs are with us of their own free will.

If i were to throw my Sasha out on the porch, she would stay out on the porch. She is free, and chooses to stay here. I may let her go, and she may take off to wander a bit. But she'll come back to me, and Ill be the one that has to remove the porcupine quills from her nose. I figure i will save her the pain, save me the anguish, and cut to the chase by keeping her from running free.

If i ever had a dog show outward signs of distress at their captivity (i.e., a flopped over dorsal fin), i could be easily persuaded to look into it.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


they are truly social creatures, they teach the calf how to catch pray



Its just sad to have them in pools

Good, the fact that animals are corralled and trained for the entertainment of people is sick. I am happy about this, document or not, it should stop. Pure entertainment, just bull!

Indigent
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

they are truly social creatures, they teach the calf how to catch pray

Its just sad to have them in pools

I don't think a valid argument could be made to keep Sandhill Cranes captive. They spend the summer in the Ukraine, and the winters in West Texas. Their "habitat" spans continents. What kind of habitat would be a good facsimile?

The same can be said for Orca's. They have a habitat that spans the entire planet. They have social groupings that are akin to ours, with variances in language, etc. We break these social groupings up and force new ones. It has worked so well as a proof of concept in the middle east, that we have now started doing it among other species, too.

It really isn't hard to see how humans are among the most disruptive forces on this planet.

When i was a little girl, living in eastern Europe i used to wait for the gypsies. They would come every couple of months with bears and those bears could dance, real dancing bears they were indeed.

Fast forward 3 decades and i now understand those bears were 'dancing' because they had rings in their noses with heavy chains attached and gypsies were pulling on those chains and hurting the bears.

Seaworld has no right whatsoever to make whales jump in front of an audience. Even though they may not hurt them physically it is just wrong and people are wrong to think they are somehow entitled to see whales perform. I have been explaining this to my son for a couple of years now and he understands why we never go to a circus or a similar venue.

Animals are not our property or entertainment.

Anyone who defends the continued capture and torture of these animals are sick. By the way, please check out my recent thread which is NOT being listed in the list of recent posts. I am so disgusted at the censorship.

StoutBroux
Anyone who defends the continued capture and torture of these animals are sick. By the way, please check out my recent thread which is NOT being listed in the list of recent posts. I am so disgusted at the censorship.

I don't think anyone is censoring you. Other than you.

Link to this mysterious thread?

StoutBroux
Anyone who defends the continued capture and torture of these animals are sick. By the way, please check out my recent thread which is NOT being listed in the list of recent posts. I am so disgusted at the censorship.

Im sure its a conspiracy oh and just so you know Sea world doesnt capture animals they rescue them. For example the sea lion that was shot. If left on his own he would have died since his flipper was non functioning and took several surgeries to correct.In fact they have a very cool kids show about how they do animal rescue. Just so you know they havnt done captures in over 30 years.

seaworldkids.com...

reply to post by dragonridr


And still it happens they can "rescue" enough whales all the time to keep their shows running in four different locations non stop. interesting who would know the whales are so prone to need rescues, but just enough to have 2 or 3 whales per location.

reply to post by Indigent


My grandmother used to "rescue" dogs. The rest of us just called it kidnapping. Just because a dog is out on his own doesn't mean he doesn't have a home. Some dogs like to wander around.

I would say a friendly dog is a dog with a home, more often then not.

dragonridr

StoutBroux
Anyone who defends the continued capture and torture of these animals are sick. By the way, please check out my recent thread which is NOT being listed in the list of recent posts. I am so disgusted at the censorship.

Im sure its a conspiracy oh and just so you know Sea world doesnt capture animals they rescue them. For example the sea lion that was shot. If left on his own he would have died since his flipper was non functioning and took several surgeries to correct.In fact they have a very cool kids show about how they do animal rescue. Just so you know they havnt done captures in over 30 years.

seaworldkids.com...

edit on 3/9/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

No instead of capturing Orcas now they just inbreed them, like that is any better. And yes they are still capturing whales and dolphins under the guise of "rescuing" them from dry fisheries in Japan. It doesn't take much to figure out if you are willing to pay someone for something they caught that will try and catch more for more money the next time.

Indigent
reply to post by dragonridr

 

And still it happens they can "rescue" enough whales all the time to keep their shows running in four different locations non stop. interesting who would know the whales are so prone to need rescues, but just enough to have 2 or 3 whales per location.

Not sure your point or even if you haveone but Orlando currently has 6 whales and sandiego had a recent addition they have 10 because they have a mother who had two calves in 2010.By the way its illegal in the United States to capture whales and dolphins has been since 1972. So if they did this they would be violating federal law theres the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972 and the Endangered Species Act of 1973.

reply to post by dragonridr

Not sure your point or even if you haveone but Orlando currently has 6 whales and sandiego had a recent addition they have 10 because they have a mother who had two calves in 2010.By the way its illegal in the United States to capture whales and dolphins has been since 1972. So if they did this they would be violating federal law theres the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972 and the Endangered Species Act of 1973.

Tilikum was captured in Berufjörður off the east coast of Iceland on November 9, 1983 at about two years of age, along with two other orcas named "Nandu" and "Samoa".

Its ok if you think i have no point, all insults are welcome

Indigent
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Not sure your point or even if you haveone but Orlando currently has 6 whales and sandiego had a recent addition they have 10 because they have a mother who had two calves in 2010.By the way its illegal in the United States to capture whales and dolphins has been since 1972. So if they did this they would be violating federal law theres the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972 and the Endangered Species Act of 1973.

Tilikum was captured in Berufjörður off the east coast of Iceland on November 9, 1983 at about two years of age, along with two other orcas named "Nandu" and "Samoa".

Its ok if you think i have no point, all insults are welcome

Where you aware he was received at seaworld as a rescue? Tilikum was first owned by Sealand of the Pacific, in South Oak Bay, British Columbia.Oh just so you know Orca came from them as well to sea world. They were closed After an accident with Tilikum killing a Trainer at the time believed he was protecting his mate. Then Haida died one of the killer whales this started people looking into their procedures. It was shown they used food deprivation to get the whales to perform not to mention other questionable practices.When sealand closed they werent sure what ot do with the whales since an earlier attempted release didnt go well the whale died.They asked seaworld if they would take the whales since seaworld had already helped them by nursing a baby orca by the name of Miracle back to health. She was found alone the mother dead and she was shot several times. Any way they paid to have them shipped to sea world and thats been there home ever since. It took several years just to get there behaviors back to normal. When first received they would hide at the bottom of the tanks and were scared of trainers. Later the behavior changed but for the first couple of years the whales were very sporadic choosing more often than not to not perform in the show. Probably do to the fact he realized he didnt have to in order to be cared for.

As you can see theres always more to the story but if Sea World hadnt accepted him hed probably be dead. If you actually went to the Aquarium they explain this to youand you can see some of the marks he had when they received him as well.

reply to post by dragonridr


I have been to the aquarium.
Fact: sea worlds breeding practices aren't okay (would you breed a dog that's aggressive?)
Fact: orcas are immensely smart animals (they have big brains with many folds, similar to humans)
Fact: the aquariums they are kept in are too small p


Fact: sea world does do some good work, but they also worship the mighty $ a bit too much.

Vageryn
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

Small Tank? Compared to the Ocean, yeah it's small, but these whales have never seen the ocean so...
Orca do not need huge environments, they need ample space to swim (Orca tanks are generally six million gallons) and a good food source. The reason they travel great distances out in the wild is to find food. Sea World's Orca don't have this issue. They are also free from pollution and impurities, have on site medical care and are fed a high quality, healthy diet.

I never said, you said, you wanted them closed.

I can only go by observation, but the whales look pretty excited when the music starts playing. So yeah I think they have fun in the shows.

Speaking for the Orca is an interesting yet general stance that can be applied to all animals in captivity; that includes dogs, cats, gerbils, fish etc. It's a matter of perspective. When a Dolphin used to play Stalk n Splash (his game, not mine OK, I named it, but it was all his idea.) with me, soaks me and then laughs about it while dancing on his tail, you might think "Wow that Dolphin really hates you." When I think he's just a practical joker; and believe me, he was.

So if what you say is true... Then why don't the orcas in captivity live just as long or even longer than in the wild?

I'm wondering how you'd like to live in a bathtub your whole life and see if you like it...

Also, just because SeaWorld has a charity doesn't make them good people. Lots of bad people give to charities or have their own... It's called good PR and tax breaks...

reply to post by SilverStarGazer

So if what you say is true... Then why don't the orcas in captivity live just as long or even longer than in the wild?

Tillikum is around 30. which is the average lifespan for most male killer whales in the wild.

Please provide evidence that killer whales in captivity die sooner.

reply to post by grey580


Ok ill admit it I have no proof Tilikun is unhappy, actually he is very happy, specially after sinking its trainers/trespassers to the death.

Its obvious Orcas are evil creatures we should hunt them down all for human safe keeping purpose.

this link confirms my hypothesis

Killer whale attacks on humans

6 attacks is the wild (0 deaths) vs 35 in captivity

reply to post by dragonridr


Of course, the most credible witness to an event is the person being witnessed against.