An Agnostic's Questions: Question #1...

BenReclused
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Speaking for my own particular instance of atheism, it's an exercise in critical thinking skills and a study in human nature, above all else.

That's all fine, and well, but that's only an exercise in "subjective thinking". Are you, really, willing to put "subjectivity", "above all else". Have you considered anything, a bit, more objective?

Thank you, very much, for addressing the question, and NOT ME.

See ya buddy,
Milt

If it worked for the Wright brothers, it can work for me. Was their critical thinking any less subjective than my own?

reply to post by DeadGhost


Well sir those are CHURCH doctrines and not all neccessarily biblical. Jesus is GOD so GOD himself paid for our sins. Hell is death, not eternal concious torment. Even GOD calls this church evil, those who are hypocrites and walk a wide path. As a true Christian I cannot judge you because a sin is a sin. The narrow path is those who would love you without judgement. You see I am just as guilty as the next person, so why would I judge you? See if I love you and show you tender kindness then I have completed my task, but that does require for me to tell you what I know, for if I do not offer you life, then I have hated you.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I am not interested in a squabble, disagree with me, thats fine.

I am a Christian and I have had many people evangelise atheism toward me.

You are welcome to disagree.

reply to post by stok3th3fir3

See if I love you and show you tender kindness then I have completed my task, but that does require for me to tell you what I know, for if I do not offer you life, then I have hated you.

You make it sound like a class assignment that you just want to do so you can be happy. Today's kindness for tomorrow's freedom to be the REAL you.

borntowatch
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I am not interested in a squabble, disagree with me, thats fine.

I am a Christian and I have had many people evangelise atheism toward me.

You are welcome to disagree.

Questioning and criticizing are not evangelizing. But you're right, this is off topic.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I'm sorry that you see it that way, but todays kindness is TODAYS freedom to be the REAL me, for this IS who I AM. This life is an experience and a teaching all in one. What do you believe that you are supposed to be? What are you here for? You know how to be GOOD and you try every day, why?

reply to post by BenReclused

I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities.

It should be emphasized that for thousands of years, the opposite was the case, except the means was by systematic ritualized executions, auto de fe, lynchings, suppression of literature, and banishment.

Despite overwhelming evidence that the death was a suicide, including the testimony of Jeanne Vigneire, Calas' Catholic governess, the court in Toulouse held that Jean Calas had murdered his son. Calas was tortured in an attempt to get him to admit that he was guilty. His arms and legs were stretched until they pulled out of their sockets. Thirty pints (more than 17 litres) of water were poured down his throat. He was tied to a cross in the cathedral square where each of his limbs were broken twice by an iron bar. Yet with all this torture he continued to declare his innocence.

The trial of Jean Calas

stok3th3fir3
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I'm sorry that you see it that way, but todays kindness is TODAYS freedom to be the REAL me, for this IS who I AM. This life is an experience and a teaching all in one. What do you believe that you are supposed to be? What are you here for? You know how to be GOOD and you try every day, why?

Because it would make me feel sick to think that my happiness is a direct result of others' pain. And I do not necessarily believe that theism is all about "higher thinking". You're still doing things for a reward. You still expect to be compensated for all the people who take advantage of you and all the people you don't take advantage of. Like saving the millionaire instead of the thief. I've always found it interesting that the afterlife appeals to people for exactly the reason they believe they must be redeemed. They are selfish, so they want more life. They are proud, so they fear destruction. They are vain, so they expect to be favored on their death bed. They have followed the instructions precisely and have every expectation of finding paradise where x marks the spot. If that x wasn't there, would they have followed the instructions?

Words
reply to post by BenReclused

 

I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities.

It should be emphasized that for thousands of years, the opposite was the case, except the means was by systematic ritualized executions, auto de fe, lynchings, suppression of literature, and banishment.

Despite overwhelming evidence that the death was a suicide, including the testimony of Jeanne Vigneire, Calas' Catholic governess, the court in Toulouse held that Jean Calas had murdered his son. Calas was tortured in an attempt to get him to admit that he was guilty. His arms and legs were stretched until they pulled out of their sockets. Thirty pints (more than 17 litres) of water were poured down his throat. He was tied to a cross in the cathedral square where each of his limbs were broken twice by an iron bar. Yet with all this torture he continued to declare his innocence.

The trial of Jean Calas

edit on 6|3|14 by Words because: (no reason given)

This is the scary post in my view
I accept under the banner of Christianity many people have suffered horrendous acts.
Sadly though the antichristian lobby dont see themselves reflected in the crimes committed against believers.

Yes evil people do evil things, everyone is evil, believer and non believer alike.

Reading this post above is tantamount to the argument that atheists use against Christians.
"Christians are holier that thou, and judgemental"

Well Mr Words, can you not see the hypocrisy?

BenReclused
If atheists, truly do, "have a lack of belief in God":
Why do so many, seem so intent, on proving that He doesn't exist?

As a personal observation:
I'm not aware of any adults, who are actively seeking to disprove the reality Santa Clause, his elves, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy. I must be missing something, but, proving that something doesn't exist, certainly does, seem like a farce...

As always, ALL responses, ARE welcome. I WOULD, HOWEVER, PREFER ANSWERS...

See ya,
Milt

I don't know anyone intent on proving that God (however you define God) does not exist.

I do, however, know many who question why rational, intelligent adults belive in God, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. All for the same reasons.

reply to post by borntowatch

This is the scary thin in my view
I accept under the banner of Christianity many people have suffered horrendous acts.
Sadly though the antichristian lobby dont see themselves reflected in the crimes committed against believers.

Yes evil people do evil things, everyone, believer non believer is evil.

Reading this post above is tantamount to the argument that atheists use against Christians.
"Christians are holier that thou, and judgemental"

Well Mr Words, can you not see the hypocrisy?

No I agree with you. I feel atheism as it is known in the States is merely another sect of Christianity. The hypocrisy is immediately apparent.

Any attempt to employ state atheism (revolutionary Mexico for example) or suppress religion results in atrocities. But these aren't cases of bad people doing bad things, these are ritualized and systematic murders and genocides, where even good people take part because they are convinced they are doing the right thing.

AndyMayhew

BenReclused
If atheists, truly do, "have a lack of belief in God":
Why do so many, seem so intent, on proving that He doesn't exist?

As a personal observation:
I'm not aware of any adults, who are actively seeking to disprove the reality Santa Clause, his elves, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy. I must be missing something, but, proving that something doesn't exist, certainly does, seem like a farce...

As always, ALL responses, ARE welcome. I WOULD, HOWEVER, PREFER ANSWERS...

See ya,
Milt

I don't know anyone intent on proving that God (however you define God) does not exist.

I do, however, know many who question why rational, intelligent adults belive in God, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. All for the same reasons.

Isnt it funny how atheists or antigod people turn to the same argument, with the same expressions.

"I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities."
Your words prove here prove more than adequate

reply to post by borntowatch

"I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities."
Your words prove here prove more than adequate

I don't quash the expression of religious thought. And I know of others here - atheists, agnostics, deists, wiccans, etc. - who have been accused of the same are not in the business of exterminating theism. We do, however, critique it. The key to refinement is being able to admit a mistake or a flaw. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. I mean, really - do you expect to post your opinion on a conspiracy forum and not have others picking it apart? Scrutiny is the name of the game.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I don't quash the expression of religious thought. I do, however, critique it. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

That's what needs to happen. We cannot forcibly remove religion, but we can cultivate it through criticism. However, criticism of atheism—any ideology—is also necessary.

borntowatch
"I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities."

I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organized groups, to quash the expression of rational thought and questioning of obvious biblical errors, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities.

Oh ... and I say that as a Christian.

I don't see atheists trying to convert people on ATS. I do, however, see religious people (christian and muslim) trying to convert people who don't believe like they do. One last thing - pointing out that large chunks of the Old Testament are not literally true - that they are myths and folklore - doesn't mean that a person is trying to convert a believer to Atheism. It just means the person is pointing out the TRUTH. Truth is truth.

If a religious belief can't stand up against facts, then it's a useless religion/belief system.

Side note - This is the third thread this week by the OP on this type of subject.
I"m not sure what is going on with that .... ???? These things can't all be in one thread???

Words


No I agree with you. I feel atheism as it is known in the States is merely another sect of Christianity. The hypocrisy is immediately apparent.

Any attempt to employ state atheism (revolutionary Mexico for example) or suppress religion results in atrocities. But these aren't cases of bad people doing bad things, these are ritualized and systematic murders and genocides, where even good people take part because they are convinced they are doing the right thing.

Didnt know about the Mexican revolution based on atheism, though I actually think that was political, like most other wars fought in the name of religion or non religion

reply to post by FlyersFan


We disagree and I am content to disagree, sadly you are not.

I believe the OT is very accurate and no pushy pushy demands and the truth is truth atatements will persuade me otherwise.

I think you are wrong, and I understand your argument.

Now lets get over it shall we.

You wont win me over, sorry

reply to post by Words


I agree. It is only fair that atheism also be criticized. The diamond must be handled roughly for it to shine.

borntowatch
I believe the OT is very accurate and no pushy pushy demands and the truth is truth atatements will persuade me otherwise.

- It's not 'pushy pushy demands' to post facts that prove the Old Testament is dead wrong. It's just posting truth.
- It's a shame that some people are so blinded by indoctrination that they refuse to let truth enter into their thought process.

You wont win me over, sorry

I don't care what you believe. That's your problem, not mine. But this is ATS and we talk about facts here. So as long as you or anyone else posts here, you all will have the FACT that Noahs Ark is false, staring you in the face. And the FACT that Adam and Eve are myths. And the FACT that Exodus didn't happen the way the Old Testament claims. Close your eyes to the truth if you wish ... it's your choice. But the facts will always be presented here.

AfterInfinity
[
I don't quash the expression of religious thought. And I know of others here - atheists, agnostics, deists, wiccans, etc. - who have been accused of the same are not in the business of exterminating theism. We do, however, critique it. The key to refinement is being able to admit a mistake or a flaw. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. I mean, really - do you expect to post your opinion on a conspiracy forum and not have others picking it apart? Scrutiny is the name of the game.

edit on 6-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Oh dear me it is warming up

Fear and trepidation...anticipation.

Afterinfinity, please critique, scrutinise away, sadly you have missed the WHOLE theme of the thread

I will paraphrase it this time so you might understand it better,

"Why do atheists turn to belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities
when arguing with believers."

No its not a kitchen and its not hot, here I am.
Though
I expect to post an opinion on a topic, on topic, and the replier to my opinion, first understands my opinion before replying to it, never mind that they should take the time to understand what the topic is about