An Agnostic's Questions: Question #1...

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posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:42 AM
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If atheists, truly do, "have a lack of belief in God":
Why do so many, seem so intent, on proving that He doesn't exist?

As a personal observation:
I'm not aware of any adults, who are actively seeking to disprove the reality Santa Clause, his elves, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy. I must be missing something, but, proving that something doesn't exist, certainly does, seem like a farce...

As always, ALL responses, ARE welcome. I WOULD, HOWEVER, PREFER ANSWERS...

See ya,
Milt

Note to Mods:
I chose "Conspiracies in Religions" because:
I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities.
edit on 703America/Chicago3RAmerica/Chicago2014-03-06T09:53:37-06:00Thursdayu37America/Chicago by BenReclused because: Typo




posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 


It appears to me that you think agnostics are the same thing as atheists? Did you even bother to read my post in your last thread on agnostics? Or are you just trolling as your mood status and avatar would imply?
edit on 6/3/2014 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 


A lack of a belief in God defines agnosticism, not atheism.

An atheist believes God does not exist.

People tend to want to be right which is probably why they try to prove God does not exist.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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BenReclused
If atheists, truly do, "have a lack of belief in God":
Why do so many, seem so intent, on proving that He doesn't exist?

As a personal observation:
I'm not aware of any adults, who are actively seeking to disprove the reality Santa Clause, his elves, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy. I must be missing something, but, proving that something doesn't exist, certainly does, seem like a farce...

As always, ALL responses, ARE welcome. I WOULD, HOWEVER, PREFER ANSWERS...

See ya,
Milt

Note to Mods:
I chose "Conspiracies in Religions" because:
I feel there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities.





Speaking for my own particular instance of atheism, it's an exercise in critical thinking skills and a study in human nature, above all else.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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I would have to say they do it to counter the arguments theists bring up that "prove" God exists. Since there are two sides to the debate (atheists and theists) they will always try to outdo one another, its like they feed off of each other.

Another equally fair question is why do theists always actively try to prove God does exist? I don't see any grown adults trying to argue that sound waves or light exists.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:55 AM
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scojak
reply to post by BenReclused
 


A lack of a belief in God defines agnosticism, not atheism.

An atheist believes God does not exist.

People tend to want to be right which is probably why they try to prove God does not exist.



No.


ag·nos·tic
agˈnästik/Submit
noun
1.
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.


edit on 6-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 


Actually, when I discovered Santa Claus was not real as a child, I had some difficulty in getting my friends who still believed, to realize the truth. They couldn't believe that their family would ever lie to them! Technically, I have to admit, that is when I did begin to question my family's beliefs in God and bible stories.

As an agnostic, I have no idea if there is or isn't a creator, but I certainly know better than just have faith that others are sharing the absolute truth. Btw...I still get presents at Christmas, even though I know the truth.
edit on 3 6 2014 by CynConcepts because: Clarification



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:57 AM
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BenReclused
If atheists, truly do, "have a lack of belief in God":
Why do so many, seem so intent, on proving that He doesn't exist?

As a personal observation:
I'm not aware of any adults, who are actively seeking to disprove the reality Santa Clause, his elves, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy. I must be missing something, but, proving that something doesn't exist, certainly does, seem like a farce...

As always, ALL responses, ARE welcome. I WOULD, HOWEVER, PREFER ANSWERS...

See ya,
Milt

Note to Mods:
I chose "Conspiracies in Religions" because:
I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities.
edit on 703America/Chicago3RAmerica/Chicago2014-03-06T09:53:37-06:00Thursdayu37America/Chicago by BenReclused because: Typo


The difference is that there aren't a whole bunch of adults believing in those other mythical things while running around claiming moral superiority and divine knowledge while calling everyone else sinners and being a bunch of A-holes to other people. It's funny you would use that as your example though. Believing in the Easter Bunny or Santa is certainly very similar to Believing in Biblical Gods, isn't it??



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by scojak
 


So atheists don't have a lack of belief in God?

Agnostics don't know one way or another, they lack in both belief and non-belief, they are neutral on the subject.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:05 AM
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I'm Agnostic....I don't know and don't care if God exists or not. Its unprovable either way so why bother wasting time over it?
I have far more important and quantifiable things to concern myself with rather than putting blind faith in anything or anyone.

Atheists and Theists are just two sides of the same coin as far as I can see and each can be as dogmatic, blinkered, overly moralistic and intolerant as the other.

Just my opinion for what little its worth.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


It appears to me that you think agnostics are the same thing as atheists?

Well, your perception is lacking.

I am an agnostic, who only, is tired of atheists claiming that they are ALSO "agnostic". Perhaps, you should try to talk them about it. I can assure you, however, that, that won't go very well, unless your willing to accept their, overly complicated, version of "agnosticism".


Did you even bother to read my post in your last thread on agnostics?

Yes, I did, and I even, responded with praise. Unfortunately, you didn't get a chance to read it, because of the hostilities expressed by a number of atheists.


Or are you just trolling as your mood status and avatar would imply?

That's up to you to decide. I won't accept any responsibility, for YOUR BELIEFS.

Now, that I addressed ALL of your "concerns", would you kindly respond to the topic of this discussion?

See ya,
Milt



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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BenReclused
If atheists, truly do, "have a lack of belief in God":
Why do so many, seem so intent, on proving that He doesn't exist?


This is a fallacy. In my lifetime I have had thousands of Christians trying to push their beliefs on me, but I have never had an attempt to convert me to atheism. Christian beliefs are shaping this country daily, and intruding into my life. The United States is a predominantly christian country. Presidents are sworn in on the bible. Many things are done in the name of god in Washington DC. Can you imagine if they were done in the name of allah? This country's founding principle of freedom of religion would be blasted out the window in 2 seconds with every christian marching in protest of Islam. There is no religious freedom here. It's christian or nothing where I live. I know a lot of people that would love if this country was ran straight from the bible, as if it were a manual to governing. That's not what religious freedom is about. People came here to ESCAPE religious governing.

But back to the fallacy that so many athiests are intent on on proving that god doesn't exists. I think you are hearing a small vocal minority. You're not counting the multitudes that avoid religious debates entirely. I mean, they're not that hard to win after all. God creates everything. Man sins. God intends to burn them all in flesh eating fire for eternity as punishment. Then sends his son to die to save a few people from the brutality that he arranged. To save a few from himself....and his sick brutal eternal torture of billions. Yep, that sounds like a loving god! LOL! Give me a break. If god would burn me, then I WANT to burn, just to rub it in his face. I will scream at him from hell..."you're burning me, you're torturing me, god" Why would he do that to anyone?

Do you know anyone that would torture their own children eternally for any reason? I don't, because if you love someone you do not throw them into a lake of fire from which they can never escape. That would be a sin to create human suffering on such a grand scale. Either god cannot sin, or he can... but there is no one to judge him. Face it, god is evil and unjust. Hell is the major downfall of it for me. I lost my faith a long time ago. God's will cannot really contain a hell. Would he really burn you?

I just don't want to live in a world where this fictional torturing god is constantly being worshiped everywhere I look. Not only that, but I have to be pressured to follow him. I already did, for most of my life. And I swear to you, on every fiber of my being, I'm a lot happier without him.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 



I am an agnostic, who only, is tired of atheists claiming that they are ALSO "agnostic". Perhaps, you should try to talk them about it. I can assure you, however, that, that won't go very well, unless your willing to accept their, overly complicated, version of "agnosticism".

Uh huh... so you thought it'd be a good idea to make a bunch of threads in which you'd pose as a theist and mix up agnostics and atheists to make some sort of point against atheists? Why not just say what you really want to say and have an intellectual discussion about it instead of acting like a child and clogging up ATS with stupid troll threads...
edit on 6/3/2014 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by scojak
 


A lack of a belief in God defines agnosticism, not atheism.

You are, not quite, correct:
Agnosticism DEMANDS, a TOTAL "lack of belief", regarding God. That INCLUDES the "BELIEF", about God's nonexistence.


An atheist believes God does not exist.

Have you ever tried to tell an atheist, that? If not, try that, and let me know how "it" went...


People tend to want to be right which is probably why they try to prove God does not exist.

If so, why do you feel that atheists, have already "jumped to a conclusion", that many of them won't admit to.

Thank you, very much, for addressing my question, instead of my character.

See ya,
Milt



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 


Agnosticism assumes that deities cannot be tested, while atheism relies on the reality that any concept subject to the scientific method is capable of being investigated.
edit on 6-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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BenReclused
If atheists, truly do, "have a lack of belief in God":
Why do so many, seem so intent, on proving that He doesn't exist?

As a personal observation:
I'm not aware of any adults, who are actively seeking to disprove the reality Santa Clause, his elves, the Easter Bunny, or even the Tooth Fairy. I must be missing something, but, proving that something doesn't exist, certainly does, seem like a farce...

As always, ALL responses, ARE welcome. I WOULD, HOWEVER, PREFER ANSWERS...




Hey Ben
Its an interesting question
Personally I dont understand the atheist argument, I see it as a religious conviction "I dont believe" as opposed to "I dont know"
the agnostic premise is neutral so indicates no conviction
the atheists obviously have a conviction

Why do they do it, argue and evangelise.

I am sure there are many reasons, each relating to individuals.
Bad Christians who incite arguments, basic retaliation (yep that was me once)
Heard mentality
popular opinion
aggressive nature
and selfishness

Just to name a few, but they all represent the Christian action as well. (yes we are all flawed)

I am sure there are real Christians who evangelise out of love without being as, aforementioned.

Anyway I think its a valid question and I also thought your OP was clear and didnt deserve the response it received.
Maybe some people were defending their faith a little to quickly.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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BenReclused
I feel that, there is a concentrated effort, by certain members of ATS, and other organised groups, to quash the expression of religious thought, by means of belittlement, ridicule, and other hostilities.


You are absolutely correct, but so what? The Bible says to expect it.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by BenReclused
 




Wow...you people sure give a lot of attention and energy in defining labels.


Ever consider not giving power to the intangible..?


The Shed is full on this one...





posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by borntowatch
 


Evangelize? Could you post a link to a thread recruiting potential atheists? I don't remember seeing any like that.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Speaking for my own particular instance of atheism, it's an exercise in critical thinking skills and a study in human nature, above all else.

That's all fine, and well, but that's only an exercise in "subjective thinking". Are you, really, willing to put "subjectivity", "above all else". Have you considered anything, a bit, more objective?

Thank you, very much, for addressing the question, and NOT ME.

See ya buddy,
Milt





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