So they want our guns...

I'm all for gun ownership but all I see is a lot of people yelling "molon labe" while the crowd on the hill does what it wants anyway.

They don't need to make a grab for them if the armed populace acquiesces anyway.

daskakik
They don't need to make a grab for them if the armed populace acquiesces anyway.

I do not see that occurring, they are fought diligently at every turn and the pro-2nd Amendment crowd is winning.

AugustusMasonicus
I do not see that occurring, they are fought diligently at every turn and the pro-2nd Amendment crowd is winning.

I wasn't talking about gun laws, I was talking about everything else.

daskakik
I wasn't talking about gun laws, I was talking about everything else.

Gotcha. What you say makes sense as if people were as passionate about losing their other rights, speech, freedoms, etc., as they were about trying to control our gun ownership then maybe the slow erosion of our fundamental rights would not have occurred.

reply to post by daskakik

To be average is to be known. Give people the fear of the unknown. Soon...tptb will have even more to worry about than just guns and militia. The Independence Front has begun.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Please don´t get me wrong I own several guns although, all are semi.
My opinion is, we are better off with our regulation (Germany). If you want a gun, you can have one. But not by stepping into a walmart and waiting a couple of days (if even).
Our crime rate is much lower and the statistic in the OP with the colors does match but only because they played with numbers and ratios to stay in green area.

What you said there is so unrealistic, because if everybody did this, you would be eating nuts and berries the next winter. Like a man. This comes from a hunter´s son and future hunter trainee.

But I know, people will be all over me soon because I dared to criticize.

Edit: 50-70 guns per 100 people in Germany is not comparable because the only people who have guns here are those who do sports and they may own several after years, hunters, police and a very few people that have carry license.
So you talk about a minority that has most of the guns instead of 50-70 guns per people -> ~40 out of 100 must have guns.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Right. I have often heard that the 2nd is what guarantees all the other rights but it really hasn't. They didn't need to take away the guns and the issue is now just part of the dog and pony show.

verschickter
Please don´t get me wrong I own several guns although, all are semi.
My opinion is, we are better off with our regulation (Germany).

And this is how it should work. You like being regulated in Germany? Good for you. I do not like to be made to jump through hoops for my firearms and the Constitution says I should not have to.

What works or does not work elsewhere is completely, totally and forever irrelevant to what is guaranteed in the United States.

daskakik
Right. I have often heard that the 2nd is what guarantees all the other rights but it really hasn't. They didn't need to take away the guns and the issue is now just part of the dog and pony show.

I can be fairly certain the majority of the pro-2nd Amendment posters on this thread were also anti-Patriot Act, anti-bailout, etc., and are most likely to have spoke out about this as I have.

My point is everyone else, i.e. the 'anti-gun' crowd probably did not raise a peep as their rights were slowly eroded. I think it would be safe to say that all of the pro-2nd Amendment posters are also pro-every other Amendment posters as well and did make an effort to thwart these big-government/anti-freedom policies. We do not make a distinction.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

But it didn't make a difference so, in the end it doesn't matter how much grumbling there was, they acquiesced.

daskakik
But it didn't make a difference so, in the end it doesn't matter how much grumbling there was, they acquiesced.

Who acquiesced, the majority of the populace? If yes, you are correct. I still harangue my elected legislators about every policy that I think is determntenl to the Constitution as I am sure others still do but we need more support to reverse these decisions.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I understand that there are groups who push through the channels provided within the system.

My point was that the right to keep and bear arms does not in and of itself guarantee anything and those in power know this.

daskakik
I understand that there are groups who push through the channels provided within the system.

My point was that the right to keep and bear arms does not in and of itself guarantee anything and those in power know this.

I guess it is all about perspective. The 2nd Amendment revolves around the ability to overthrow tyrannical governments, while I feel ours has become oppressive I do not think it falls into the tyrannical just yet.

If we had armed insurrection every time there were laws we disagreed with instead of using the proper channels and recourses in an attempt to repeal them we would be no better than every banana republic in history.

AugustusMasonicus
I guess it is all about perspective. The 2nd Amendment revolves around the ability to overthrow tyrannical governments, while I feel ours has become oppressive I do not think it falls into the tyrannical just yet.

That is why baby steps work so well. As long as the majority don't think something falls into the tyrannical there is no need to turn to the 2nd.

If we had armed insurrection every time there were laws we disagreed with instead of using the proper channels and recourses in an attempt to repeal them we would be no better than every banana republic in history.

My point exactly. So why would there be a need to disarm?

Now, there is a very real need to keep vigilant but, there is also quite a bit of crying wolf going on.

daskakik
That is why baby steps work so well. As long as the majority don't think something falls into the tyrannical there is no need to turn to the 2nd.

This is exactly where the phrase 'least common denominator' applies. People would rather get involved in Kim Kardashian's personal life than be concerned about creeping privations to their rights.

My point exactly. So why would there be a need to disarm?

Now, there is a very real need to keep vigilant but, there is also quite a bit of crying wolf going on.

I do not think there is any reason to disarm nor do I think anyone would get away with postulating, let alone attempting disarmament.

'Crying wolf' in what regard?

AugustusMasonicus
This is exactly where the phrase 'least common denominator' applies. People would rather get involved in Kim Kardashian's personal life than be concerned about creeping privations to their rights.

And it is why you don't have the support that you said you needed earlier.

I do not think there is any reason to disarm nor do I think anyone would get away with postulating, let alone attempting disarmament.

Neither do tptb. That was my point.

'Crying wolf' in what regard?

That anyone thinks that they can "get away with postulating, let alone attempting disarmament".

daskakik
That anyone thinks that they can "get away with postulating, let alone attempting disarmament".

I think we are mostly in agreement, however there is, at times, postulating for curtailment of the 2nd Amendment however I think the overwhelming negative responses cause the occasional moron who proposes it to see that their task is unattainable.

The rhetoric today sounds a lot like pre-WWII Germany...



Just in case ....

Indeed.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Yep, the difference is that you think that moron is honest in his proposal and I think it's just part of the political show.

reply to post by SWCCFAN



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