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So they want our guns...

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posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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ketsuko

Cuervo

cavtrooper7
reply to post by Cuervo
 


You need a better divination spell. The Govt wouldn't have a chance,nor would the rest of the planet if THEY tried to take over the US( I have 6 years as an army scout for MY knowledge)
They are screwing up almost EVERYTHING they try due to EPIC incompetence,because the current regime and progressive push are based on SOCIAL POLITICS not logic. Come at us THAT way and not OUR way and it's over.Those who can do this think like me and would turn on them.
Hostages make lousy soldiers,in a nation chock FULL of expert marksmen( Ladies too) they would turn or die.The pres would have to lead from a bunker.


The problem is that 99% of the gun owners out there are nothing like you. It won't be a million highly trained army scouts against a few outnumbered soldiers. It would be the extent of the American war machine against a bunch of handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

I never said the government would win, I just said the rest of us would definitely lose.


You think it would be the extent of the war machine?

No, the military would divide. They would lose a portion of their forces. Some would turn and others just wouldn't be able to fight for either side. The question is how many would turn ... It also depends on how much sympathy the rebels get from the remaining civilian populace. During the revolution, only a small percentage actually fought, but a much larger one supported them as they could and that was key.

Also, you would be looking at a situation where whole states would secede.

And yes, you are entirely right that this would be an ugly, ugly situation. This is quite possibly why no one has made a move yet, but they keep pushing, don't they? I guess they're just trusting that we don't have lines that we won't let them cross.


I agree for the most part. It's very tough expressing my stance on the 2nd amendment because not only do I feel very strongly about it but I feel very strongly in ways that piss off both anti-gun and pro-gun folks. For the topic of government vs the people particularly, my stance is simple:

1 - I don't want to see our guns confiscated.
2 - I would like to see a compromise on obtaining guns. I think training should be mandatory for all fire arms. I don't even care if you register your gun so much as I just want to make sure you know how to use it safely and responsibly.
3 - I don't want to see dead Americans, regardless if they are armed civilians or soldiers.

These beliefs of mine are why I get hammered by conservatives and liberals alike.




posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


I think most CCW permits require firearms safety courses and training. At least they do in my state. And you'd have to be an idiot not to take a safety course of some kind and learn how to use something like a firearm.

I know we've discussed getting one for around the house because my husband sometimes is out on business, and we both know we'll be making trips to the range and taking a course or two to learn how to handle it even if we don't go CCW.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


The reason many gun owning Americans are against mandatory firearm registries is because we know history. Registration will always eventually lead to confiscation. I agree we should all be trained on the firearms we use. That's what the term "well-regulated" in the second amendment means in 1789 English.

We should all pay close attention on the situation in CT. It could go either-way quick.

I hope the CT Government backs down but those guys are not the smartest bunch after all...



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:24 PM
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This poses a very good question


How do you keep guns and other weapons out of the hands of criminals?

You don't. They are criminals and they will always find a way.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


Hate to point this out, but if they get all confiscate, we may not want them to. Since they refuse to control the border, I have no problem thinking that the cartels will just add illegal guns to their illegal drugs. There will still be guns for those who want them, just like there are now.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:28 PM
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SWCCFAN
reply to post by Cuervo
 


The reason many gun owning Americans are against mandatory firearm registries is because we know history. Registration will always eventually lead to confiscation. I agree we should all be trained on the firearms we use. That's what the term "well-regulated" in the second amendment means in 1789 English.

We should all pay close attention on the situation in CT. It could go either-way quick.

I hope the CT Government backs down but those guys are not the smartest bunch after all...


I'm not pro-registry. I'm pro-training. I don't think training would have to lead to a registry.

Like Ketsuko said, they already require training for the CW which I have always thought was a good idea and should be extended to all firearms.

I don't see why you would have to register a fire arm to get one, though. Just show your permit like you would to buy a six-pack. No need to record who's who.

In fact, you would think that the pro-2nd amendment folks would like that idea since they would know that, if it came down to it, they could rely on just about anybody they saw waving around a gun.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


I live in the UK and don't need a gun, why do you NEED a gun? Also your league of shame table is not worth the paper it is written on. Unless all crime is reported in exactly the same way, then it is incomparable. Fact is the UK is one of the only remaining countries in the world that does not have police with guns 24/7, there is a reason for that.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:48 PM
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peter vlar

stormson

cavtrooper7
reply to post by Cuervo
 


You need a better divination spell. The Govt wouldn't have a chance,nor would the rest of the planet if THEY tried to take over the US( I have 6 years as an army scout for MY knowledge)
They are screwing up almost EVERYTHING they try due to EPIC incompetence,because the current regime and progressive push are based on SOCIAL POLITICS not logic. Come at us THAT way and not OUR way and it's over.Those who can do this think like me and would turn on them.
Hostages make lousy soldiers,in a nation chock FULL of expert marksmen( Ladies too) they would turn or die.The pres would have to lead from a bunker.


tell me something.

how would the average person, with no formal military training, stack up against a 6 yr army scout?

now tell me, if the army were to turn on the people, just how well would the people stack up against the army, considering that 90% of people have no formal military training? just using small arms? now add in all the goodies, like drones and tanks, what are the peoples chances?

now, just for giggles, imagine that all the restraints that we put on the army for places like iraq were removed. where the army became what it truly was meant to be, a conquering army? where they were told to roll in, pacify by any means, and move on?

just imagine how much chance the average person would have if the army was told to operate by wwii rules of engagement rather than the "hearts and minds" rules of today.

the average person, never being in the army, can boast and bluster about how they could beat the best military in the world, but i expect better from a vet. even if restricted to just small arms, t.t.p. and physical conditioning puts the army ahead of the people.
edit on 5-3-2014 by stormson because: (no reason given)


Some must have forgot to tell all of that to the Vietnamese, Afghani and Iraqi people just to name a couple off the top of my head. All people who only had access to small arms and rudimentary explosives.it didn't stop the Vietnamese from handing the french their back sides for a decade(1945-54) before the US got froggy and decided to jump in themselves where we were given the same treatment for roughly 20 more years (1954-73). Japan's commander in chief during WW2, Isoruku Yamamoto famously said, " You can not invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass".
One thing people leave out of the equation when discussing out matched forces facing off against a technologically superior force is that the force with inferior armaments has one advantage, familiarity, or as they call it in baseball, home field advantage. It has worked to the advantage of Guerrillas from Central America to South East Asia to Ww2 France and beyond. That's not to say the losses wouldn't be bordering on obscene but that would pertain to both sides and with 300 million firearms in private hands, the only real advantage would be to involve multiple armies to fight American civilians Nd that wouldn't look very good on the workd stage. Especially once bodies started stacking up on the tarmack. These are the things I studied and had to be prepared for in the US Army as An 11b in the 10th mtn. Div. and then the 3rd Ranger bat. I spent many, many months at Ft. Benning, some of it at the infamous school of the Americas. Nothing is more American than teaching Central Americans how to blow a bridge!
edit on 5-3-2014 by peter vlar because: (no reason given)


You got that right!!!!

Americans invented asymmetric warfare, we are very good at it.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Risco
 


Well for one thing, if you live in a rural area, a gun is pretty much a necessary tool of life. You have to have one to protect yourself from wildlife or to take care of nuisance wildlife or to handle farm animals that need to be put out of their misery if the vet simply isn't available and can't be anytime soon. There is also the question of protecting yourself from human animals, but that's further back on the list behind the reason mentioned above. Trust me, there isn't animal control in the country, and even if there is, they aren't always going to come and relocate your problem raccoons.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:00 PM
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tinez
reply to post by oblvion
 


I am 13 delta army vet and oh do I love me some ARTILLERY. and to comment on a previous post you put. I do agree with you on there aint no way our army will go against " the people " . and even if the orders were given I believe that there will be a lot of AWOLS defending the people.


Nice!!!!

There arent a lot of us around. I meet 13-B all the time but not 13-E or 13-D.

Is senior drill Sergeant Marshall still at A/2nd/80th field artillery battalion?

He was my actual drill Sergeant, before he became senior drill Sergeant.

"STEEL RAIN!!!!!"



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:04 PM
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Risco
reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


I live in the UK and don't need a gun, why do you NEED a gun? Also your league of shame table is not worth the paper it is written on. Unless all crime is reported in exactly the same way, then it is incomparable. Fact is the UK is one of the only remaining countries in the world that does not have police with guns 24/7, there is a reason for that.


Yea. To prevent police from shooting criminals.

Now they just beat the # out of them. I appreciate your effort.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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Risco
reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


I live in the UK and don't need a gun, why do you NEED a gun? Also your league of shame table is not worth the paper it is written on. Unless all crime is reported in exactly the same way, then it is incomparable. Fact is the UK is one of the only remaining countries in the world that does not have police with guns 24/7, there is a reason for that.


Isn't the reason the proliferation of the ever intrusive CCTV cams everywhere? You don't need cops with guns when cameras are tracking every step you take down the street. I don't NEED any firearms but marksmanship was one of the things I excelled at in the military. It's a life skill that I enjoy sharing with my son. He's 11 but has never fired one but I drill the heck out of him on all aspects of safety and responsible ownership and he can tear down and clean a rifle like a pro. When he's old enough to go to the range and learn to shoot properly you can bet I'm going to trust him far more than anyone else out there shooting with us. An added bonus is that if I'm not home and someone breaks in to my home, my wife feels safer knowing that a few steps away from the bed is a safe with everything she needs to defend herself and my children if someone is dumb enough to try and make it past the Akitas which makes me feel better if I've got to be away for any period of time. If
it's not something you're into or comfortable with that's fine. But getting into a dick measuring contest about which country is superior because one gives this right and the other one took it away already. It's silly. I think Haggis is disgusting but I'm not inclined to try to convince any Scots that they shouldn't eat it and instead should live off if hamburgers and Pizza because that show we roll in NY.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:14 PM
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AugustusMasonicus

SWCCFAN
You mistakenly label the AR 15 as a High Power Rifle. It is not. It is actually a medium power rifle and it only has an effective range of 500 meters.

Now my 300 win mag is a high power rifle and it has a range of 1760 yards or 1 mile. It is bolt action and extremely accurate. No call to ban those is there...


I posted this on anther thread.

I would rather got shot with my Bushmaster .223 'assault weapon' then my Winchester .308 lever action rifle. The first may not kill me but the latter is going to leave a mark.

The 'scary' gun is much less scary than the hunting rifle.


It is because their ignorance "informs" them that the AR-15 Is a "military style" assault weapon, though 99% of them wouldnt know a military weapon if they got it handed to them, where as a Vet like myself would know the difference on first sight.

I would rather take an AR-15 round than than a .308 round as well, one is gonna suck, the other is gonna suck A LOT.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


A few questions for everyone here thinking a revolution may occur and can be accomplished.

First, to get the big elephant out of the room. So 3% of the United States population has guns. Okay. How many of that percent are physically and trained for combat? Maybe 0.1%? Maybe less of that 3% number?

Looks to me that the only people that are ready to fight a revolution would be ex military guys and ex cops. Then, you add the fact that these people have to be willing to die for their cause.

Second. The police force has acquired high tec military gear including drones. Then of course you add the military to all of this. And you are looking at a scary threat here.

Third, the only reason why the revolution worked before was because it was on purpose (bankers fueled both sides) and both sides were on almost equal ground with technology.

Fourth, lets say the revolution works. Things can obliviously be exactly the same after the revolution like it was before. Will these people get rid of the Central Banking system? Will they drastically change how our Government works?

I just don't see all of this happening. Hell even if the bankers wanted another revolution, could the patriots even pull it off?

I mean your looking at a very few number of actual combat ready men versus a police force in the thousands that already has military equipment. I can just imagine a group of revolutionaries all in one building planning their revolution, then BOOM a hellfire missile from a drone kills them all instantly.

The only way anything will get solved in this country is through the elimination of the Central Banking system. All problems stem from Central Banking.

I know everyone in this thread is all excited about their new toys and talking to fellow gun owners ( I am as well) but I think its time to see reality.

All you are doing is playing into their game. Just like the Revolution we had hundreds of years ago.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:19 PM
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Cuervo

cavtrooper7
reply to post by Cuervo
 


You need a better divination spell. The Govt wouldn't have a chance,nor would the rest of the planet if THEY tried to take over the US( I have 6 years as an army scout for MY knowledge)
They are screwing up almost EVERYTHING they try due to EPIC incompetence,because the current regime and progressive push are based on SOCIAL POLITICS not logic. Come at us THAT way and not OUR way and it's over.Those who can do this think like me and would turn on them.
Hostages make lousy soldiers,in a nation chock FULL of expert marksmen( Ladies too) they would turn or die.The pres would have to lead from a bunker.


The problem is that 99% of the gun owners out there are nothing like you. It won't be a million highly trained army scouts against a few outnumbered soldiers. It would be the extent of the American war machine against a bunch of handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

I never said the government would win, I just said the rest of us would definitely lose.


You mean like in vietnam? Oh you meany Iraq? Oh you must have been talking about Afghanistan? .............was that enough logic for you, or do you still think the military is all powerful?

Most of us arguing with you were or are in the military silly, I think we would know more about this than a side sitting civie.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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Revelations29
I mean your looking at a very few number of actual combat ready men versus a police force in the thousands that already has military equipment.


Do you think all the Iraqi insurgents and the Afghani tribesmen had any formal weapons or military training?

We destroyed all frontline, secondary and tertiary weapons systems in both countries in a matter of weeks, they had no ability to make war on a state level. Yet here we are, 10 years latter, slogging it out, house to house, village to village against who? The Soviets? The Nazis? The Koreans? Try the Viet Cong.

You do not need combat training to engage someone who does. A citizen 'solider', sniping away, can neutralize several targets before being spotted and engaged. Now multiply that by just 1% instead of the oft used 3%. 1% of 320,000,000 is 3,200,000, that is more than 6 times where our Defense Secretary wants our Army in numbers. Simple math.



edit on 5-3-2014 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:26 PM
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AugustusMasonicus

Rezzij
Population then vs now, technology and communication then vs now, and about a thousand other reasons dictated by reason, logic, and rational thinking render your point irrelevant.


Do you really think technology provides any great advantage when dealing with a civilian population?

How has our overwhelming technology worked in Afghanistan and Iraq?

You make it sound like it will be a pitched battle when it would be nothing of the sort. How do you effectively defend against insurrectionists dressed as civilians? Better still, dressed as military. You see how many one disguised Afghani/Iraqi can kill with a weapon when he is the 'wolf in sheep's clothing'? How long does this transpire on American soil before the media and non-engaged population become disgusted and press the government to cease actions?

Think about real world situations that have already taken place before you comment as this is what renders yours irrelevant.


He acts like it is impossible to jump a fence and sabotage hundreds of vehicles in a couple hours.

Or to simply play nice wait until they turn their heads and do some really significant damage, then go right back to looking just like everyone else.

I guess some people cant be reasoned with.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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Rezzij
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Population then vs now, technology and communication then vs now, and about a thousand other reasons dictated by reason, logic, and rational thinking render your point irrelevant.


once again...afghanistan...

you really should read the rest of the thread..

we've been there over a decade, bankrupted ourselves doing it, and have failed to achieve victory...and that's against regular untrained people...

we used drones, and planes, and tanks, and every other goddamn thing in the U.S. military arsenal, except for nukes....and we've still failed to achieve victory....so honestly, do you think the citizens of this great nation would be incapable of mounting an effective resistance, in the event of a foreign invasion, or, god forbid, the government becomes lethally dangerous to the citizens?

it's not something i ever want to see, i'm just saying, not everyone is as helpless as you might think..



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


The only reason why we have yet to destroy all the "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan is the terrain, and of course, terrorists are born by are very presence there. You could say the same thing about the US. I can hardly imagine the US being a modern day Iraq.

Even then. You can say that we have a millions of people with guns in this country. It doesn't matter, because a very few percentage of those people are combat ready. I see your point of someone who can pick off guys with their old hunting rifle. I can see that happening to an extent.

But like I said before, lets say it does work. You have to plan to eliminate Central Banking completely, and change how the system works or we'll run into the same mess all over again.

Whats funny about all of this is that this revolution could be fueled by Central Bankers to dwindle down the population and put new laws that would never pass before in. So hell, lets say it does work. I would be real careful on what new laws/systems comes about after the revolution because that is the most important part of it.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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oblvion

You got that right!!!!

Americans invented asymmetric warfare, we are very good at it.


Why yes... Yes we are! And by the way, a big thank you to you and the other field artillery cats posting in this thread. Nothing used to make me happier than making that call and then hearing the whistle of incoming artillery whiz zing over my head and into the tree line giving me trouble. I owe you guys a few beers for sure!



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