Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

Buddy, most of the choclate of Poroshenko goes to Russia so it is the money that really talks.

Also, what has come to Kiev from the Western direction?

Any major aid other than loans with interests that eventually go to the western bankers..........No !!!!!!!

Only thing that came from West was INSTIGATION which has resulted in a) losing Crimea b) now Civil War.

Still want to lick the boots of the West ??

A good lesson for other countries around the world.....as to what you get for towing the Western line "blindly".

Russia isnt a threat to him any more Putin cant invade Ukraine without creating an Afganistan and we all know how that turned out. The civil war was mostly propaganda and instigation which appears to be failing. See Crimea was a bit different the phony vote was accepted at the time it wasnt until later it was found out it was a farce. This time no countries considered the referendum legitimate especially the locals. This means they were all well aware a small group was trying to use media control and Russian forces to make it seem much larger than it was. Russian propaganda keeps getting caught now happened again today. Russian television lied about the vote its becoming the norm but thats what happens when you tell journalists they must promote in idea instead of just report the news.

As far as other countries the only lesson they learned is Russians cant be trusted to respect another nations sovereignty. Putin seems to be under the impression things will go back to the way they were well hes disillusion. I must admit i laughed when he said there is no cold war in his latest interview he single handedly guaranteed NATO expansion into Eastern Europe. Even countries that were trying to remain friendly with Russia are realizing they need some guarantees that NATO can provide. Hes made Europe realize they have to find an alternative to Russian gas since he brandished it like a club over Ukraine. Every move he made turned into a losing situation for Russia. For now theyll believe the propaganda but eventually the Russians will learn the truth and i wouldnt want to be his government. He only has one option left continue the crackdown of his critiques hoping he can scare people into obedience.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

Problem is Ukraine's going to return the favor im sure. Ill bet arms will start entering into Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan. Then theirs Crimea its a powder keg with the Muslim community already pissed off it will be nothing to arm them and they arent going to be removed from there land twice by Russians.

The Russia will have reasons to formally invade Ukraine and it will not stop at Eastern part only.

Now !! after two wars..........People in Chechnya know which option is better for them? For or Against Russia ??

Only an idiot would disagree !!

I doubt Russia will officially intervene as thousands of volunteers are pouring in Ukraine from Russia, Osethia, Chechnya and most of them are people with warfare experience. Not just that, even German volunteers are ready to fight and defend people in South East from Junta nazis. People in Europe are waking up and will not allow a rise of fascism again.

Special Forces veteran GDR Alexander Kiefel ready to organize for Donbass volunteer battalion named Ernst Thalmann.

- No mercenary - anticipates an uncomfortable question Kiefel. - As in Spain in the 36th - only volunteers. If the situation in the south-east of Ukraine will heat up, go there with his comrades to fight against fascism.

www.oplot.info...

Vostok Batallion ambushed Junta nazi forces in Donetsk region a couple days ago.
Warning about graphic scenes in this video.
At 0:13 you can see a dead nazi with swastika&SS tattoo on his chest.

I doubt Russia will officially intervene as thousands of volunteers are pouring in Ukraine from Russia, Osethia, Chechnya and most of them are people with warfare experience. Not just that, even German volunteers are ready to fight and defend people in South East from Junta nazis. People in Europe are waking up and will not allow a rise of fascism again.

a reply to: cosmonova

It is the matter of cost everywhere. Russia need not invade in men and machines on the ground. However, if Ukraine arms terrorists who get active on Russian soil, then Russia can launch a airwar and finish off what ever airforce Ukraine has left. Similar treatment to navy assets etc. In one or two "high costing" episodes, Kiev will understand the 'dollar and dimes' costs and outcomes of various actions.

Ukraine fascists will go after the gas pipelines going to Europe then a) they will get the wrath of EU b) invite Russia to attack the "economy sustaining" industries that keep Kiev afloat. That will totally collapse the Ukrainian state and Kiev Junta will find itself hanged in the downtown streets by Ukrainians fed up with Junta experiments.

quite interesting

We have discussed the "costs" associated with US sanctions on Russia previously and while economic growth expectations have slowed - just as they have slowed for the entire world - despite the common knowledge meme being propogandzied across the mainstream media, as Bloomberg notes, the Russian Ruble is now notably stronger than before the sanctions and for those who ignored US sanctions and bought Russian stocks - the MSCI Russia Index has gained $90 billion since Jay Carney said "sell" as the sanctions hit.
As Bloomberg notes, investors who have ignored international sanctions against Russia are being rewarded.

www.zerohedge.com...

According to some reports i have seen the actual results of the Ukrainian election are 44% from the Euporean Parliament.


I am quite sure the majority of Ukrainians voted for a Billionaire whom wont care about the country at all.

Visa and MasterCard have been forgiven for bad behaviour at the beginning of 'Sanctions', lol

Visa and MasterCard want to create a politics-free business in Russia and to organize its administrative system and property relations in such a way as not to be dependent on political risks or decisions made by foreign governments, Russian First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov said on Friday after talks with Visa and MasterCard representatives.

"Visa and MasterCard proposed during our meeting, which was also attended by Finance Minister Anton Siluanov, to deploy basic infrastructure in Russia and create a business that would not depend on decisions made by foreign governments," Shuvalov told the Rossiya-24 television on the sidelines of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.
Both companies voiced readiness "to create a legal basis to administer their business and organize property relationships in such a way as to avoid outside influence on their decision-making. In other words, they will be free of any decisions made by foreign governments," he said.
Shuvalov confirmed that Visa and MasterCard did not want to lose their business in Russia.
"They want to develop their business in Russia. They don’t want to lose it. They stated that they didn't want any political risks to affect their activities in the future," he said.
The companies understand their responsibility for what happened to some Russian banks which were denied Visa and MasterCard services due to US sanctions over Ukraine, Shuvalov added.
Read more: voiceofrussia.com...

originally posted by: cosmonova
My understanding is that Maidan was a revolution against corrupted oligarchic system, right?
And now we have an oligarch as a president of Ukraine.

finance.yahoo.com...

Well apparently those supporting the EU Maidan Hench just selected not elected another corrupted oligarchic in power.

Don't forget the Maidan revolution wasn't about the against corrupted oligarchic system but rather it was for in favor of the EU and NATO.

Hench the two visits by Sen John McCain in Kiev.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter

originally posted by: cosmonova
My understanding is that Maidan was a revolution against corrupted oligarchic system, right?
And now we have an oligarch as a president of Ukraine.

finance.yahoo.com...

Well apparently those supporting the EU Maidan Hench just selected not elected another corrupted oligarchic in power.

Don't forget the Maidan revolution wasn't about the against corrupted oligarchic system but rather it was for in favor of the EU and NATO.

Hench the two visits by Sen John McCain in Kiev.

Do you think John Mccain has any power in Washington? Really hes kind of considered a joke by most Americans the only reason he went to Ukraine is hes a media hog. But see right now he has no power in fact the current administration pretty much thinks hes useless. His bid for the presidency was even worse people unanimously rejected him handing a victory to democrats.

Now as far as oligarchs this didnt start because of them it started because of corruption by Yanukovych He and his son robbed the country blind. Thats why he ran he knew it was a matter of time before they found evidence and he would be in jail. Now as far as moving towards the EU thats because Russia has nothing to offer them. The Russian economy is a commodity economy like most developing countries.All Putin has shown them is oppression and dependence is it any wonder Ukrainians want to follow the EU model instead of Russia's? Even when the crises started long before Maiden Putin did nothing but take steps to increase dependency he could have easily proped up the government in Kiev but chose not to. So this leads to the obvious question why did Putin want the Kiev government to fail because if Putin wanted no amount of coaxing by the EU would have done any good.But when you try to make someone a puppet the natural tendency will be they try to free themselves.

a reply to: dragonridr

If Ukrainians wants to boot polish in EU that's fine, but what about joining NATO and threatening Moscow from 200 miles. Russia is not any stupid island republic.

Russia wanted space as a major condition in 1989 and that was constantly violated until Putin put the foot down.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

If Ukrainians wants to boot polish in EU that's fine, but what about joining NATO and threatening Moscow from 200 miles. Russia is not any stupid island republic.

Russia wanted space as a major condition in 1989 and that was constantly violated until Putin put the foot down.

See problem is that agreement was with the Soviet Union and in 1991 the Soviet Union ceased to exist. Problem is Putin wasnt aware of this fact as it seems he believes his government is just a continuation of the former. See it started in 1989 with soviet bloc countries leaving the USSR this was why NATO made the agreement. But in 91 the Soviet Union itself collapsed. Lots of money was spent by Europe and the US in order to stop the slide on eastern bloc countries as well as Russia itself. Is it really surprising that these countries sought closer ties with the west.

Even Russia was on the road to democracy unfortunately seems putin has now side tracked that real shame. Russia was on the way to becoming a world leader and destroyed it all over paranoia. Hes turned Russia into a terrorist state and no country wants to deal with terrorists. You cant force people to like you at the point of a gun this worked for the soviets by fear but in the information age its much harder. Even Putin realizes this thats why he attacked the internet recently with his comments. My biggest fear is Russia will once again have another revolution last time put every country at risk and feel this time may be worse.

a reply to: dragonridr

give no value to your views.............outdated !!

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

give no value to your views.............outdated !!

I figured as much your very transparent in your views. But realize its Putins ideas that were dated he saw a conflict that wasnt there the cold war died in 91. But i guess being KGB old habits die hard since hes been undoing everything that happened since than.

a reply to: dragonridr

Do you think John Mccain has any power in Washington?

The fact he controls the IRI NGO and several others across the global should be rinsing bells.

But see right now he has no power in fact the current administration pretty much thinks hes useless. His bid for the presidency was even worse people unanimously rejected him handing a victory to democrats.

I am sure an NeoCon administration would please you the most in fact you love for an Republican to go to war with Iran and Russia.

Now as far as oligarchs this didnt start because of them it started because of corruption by Yanukovych He and his son robbed the country blind.

Ah Really? Yanukovych robbed Ukraine's bank and your evidence for the claims is what? MSM? Opposition Junta sources its pretty much clear your defending the newly selected oligarch.

All Putin has shown them is oppression and dependence
I have to disagree but i am sure NeoCons and War Mongers would agree with you.


is it any wonder Ukrainians want to follow the EU model instead of Russia's?
Its not a major surprise that the majority of Italians, British, French. Spanish dont want to follow the EU model why? just look what your beloved follow the EU model does to other countries in Europe it brings poverty.

Even when the crises started long before Maiden

I guess this video means nothing to you but thats obvious considering your least statement.

a reply to: dragonridr

Even Russia was on the road to democracy unfortunately seems putin has now side tracked that real shame.

So according to you When Russia has an real democracy is when an western puppet gets elected isn't it?

a reply to: dragonridr

Hes turned Russia into a terrorist state and no country wants to deal with terrorists.

LOL Putin has turned Russia into an Terrorist state? this is why i cant take you serious Heck if you want to see whose the real terrorist state you should probably consider and see how those cute fluffy rebels are doing in Syria.


Now lets keep this thread on topic.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

If Ukrainians wants to boot polish in EU that's fine, but what about joining NATO and threatening Moscow from 200 miles. Russia is not any stupid island republic.

Russia wanted space as a major condition in 1989 and that was constantly violated until Putin put the foot down.

I think Russia sank their own boat with that failed NATO argument. Ukraine did not invade or threaten Russia. However Russia did invade Ukraine. If you spent anytime researching on your own you would know that countries who are a part of NATO are not required to station NATO troops / installations on their border. Something NATO has taken into consideration with Poland and the Baltic States.

You need to get your facts straight before trying to push Putins failed agenda and excuses for his invasion of Ukraine. Even more so since you think "cosmic technology" will win the day for Russia.

a reply to: ALoveSupreme
US Cav scout .

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

If Ukrainians wants to boot polish in EU that's fine, but what about joining NATO and threatening Moscow from 200 miles. Russia is not any stupid island republic.

Russia wanted space as a major condition in 1989 and that was constantly violated until Putin put the foot down.

I think Russia sank their own boat with that failed NATO argument. Ukraine did not invade or threaten Russia. However Russia did invade Ukraine. If you spent anytime researching on your own you would know that countries who are a part of NATO are not required to station NATO troops / installations on their border. Something NATO has taken into consideration with Poland and the Baltic States.

You need to get your facts straight before trying to push Putins failed agenda and excuses for his invasion of Ukraine. Even more so since you think "cosmic technology" will win the day for Russia.

Ukraine did not invade or threaten Russia. However Russia did invade Ukraine.

Ukrainians in the Eastern parts of Ukraine were threaten by your beloved Junta Kiev, fascist forces, thus people in Crimea and other parts of Ukraine and some Serbs have gone there to aid them in there defense.

I have seen plenty of enough footage's of that. And however Russia didn't invade Ukraine.

you would know that countries who are a part of NATO are not required to station NATO troops / installations on their border. Something NATO has taken into consideration with Poland and the Baltic States.

Like Black Ops bases dont even exists in countries like Ukraine and those whom arent even part of NATO yet, yet Black ops bases do exist even in those countries that arent part of nato.

You need to get your facts straight before trying to push Putins failed agenda and excuses for his invasion of Ukraine.

The last time if i remember correctly you claimed that Putin had lost Syria. So far Putin is the only man in the room. Staying up to NATO/EU and of course Obama.

Happening just now at Donetsk Airport

Greg Palkot ‏@PalkotLondon 2m
#Ukraine planes helicopters involved in clashes at #donetsk airport. Heavy fire returned by separatists at ap. pic.twitter.com/0E217wJF7n

marqs ‏@MarQs__ 4m
Picture of helicopter over #Donetsk airport right now #Ukraine #Russia pic.twitter.com/Em284kVM9u

RBTH ‏@russiabeyond 4m
#Donetsk Airport reports: explosions heard, shooting, black smoke rising. #Ukraine
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marqs ‏@MarQs__ 1m
Thick black smoke over airport, fighter jets in the sky, heavy armed milita firing rockets - this is war #Ukraine #Russia #Donetsk

marqs ‏@MarQs__ 2m
UNCONFIRMED: ONE HELICOPTER SHOT DOWN AT #DONETSK AIRPORT #UKRAINE #RUSSIA